Autistic visitors can proceed with lawsuits against Disney - OC Register

[Darkbeer1]

I agree with you there should be bonified proof for many issues. The way the system is set up it relies on people being honest, however there are far to many who simply are not honest and try to scam the system at the expense of those who are.

Alas the way Federal law is written Disney can't ask. Same with the Airlines and bring animals on board. Or how those with pet allugies are having problems everywhere due to the support animal claim issue in any public space including restaurants.

Almost all truly stricken with some sort of Disability would be willing to get some sort of documentation to show their true need for accomidation to cut down on the abuse.

Same with changing the California ridiculously loose issuance of Disability parking placards and plates along with lax enforcement. All this does is take away and hurt those truly in need. And I speak from experience as I need accommodation due to basically dying last year and ended up in a coma for a couple of weeks. Doing a lot better but still have issues some will never go away no matter how much rehab I go through.

 

[EvilChameleon]

Disney should just pack the Disneyland Resort up and move somewhere that doesn't fight their biggest money maker tooth and nail.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Disney should just pack the Disneyland Resort up and move somewhere that doesn't fight their biggest money maker tooth and nail.

This Autistic issue deals with WDW and the DLR. It is an US Parks issue. And not just Disney, though in this case, it was Disney who got sued for switching from the old system to the DAS return time system.

 

[mm121]

Rather than these people constantly trying to sue for special accommodation. The law only requires "reasonable" accommodation.

They should all band together and just rent out the parks for one day a year then they'd only be competing in line with each other rather than wanting to cut in line in front of all the other paying guests.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Rather than these people constantly trying to sue for special accommodation. The law only requires "reasonable" accommodation.

They’re mostly seeking a previous accommodation.

 

[mm121]

They’re mostly seeking a previous accommodation.

Agreed, they want to go back to the cut every line direct to the front system.

Unfortunately Disney can't do that since people will just go back to abusing it, it was surprising that system lasted as long as it did.

And for many of the newer attractions it's not necessary as the queues are handicap accessible

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

I have friends who are attractions CMs including a couple of them with kids on the Autism spectrum. I have heard stories of parents with severely disabled children who couldn't be more appreciative of what CMs try to do for them. My favorite doozie was a mother who brought her child with autism to the park alone on a peak day and was incensed that they couldn't board immediately and would have to come back. She said her child couldn't understand having to come back and not being able to go in immediately. One of my friends with a child on the spectrum was very disdainful. She said this mother had self-sabotaged and left herself with no options. She said she would never have dreamed of coming to the park alone with her child on a peak day, even with the old system. She typically relied on having another person old enough to assist in interacting and/or distracting the child while they got a return time, pre-planning (including having contingencies and alternatives) and flexibility to deal with surprises.

These CMs all said their greatest fear was "mother of autistic child who doesn't get exactly what she wants" and they said "run for your life; save yourself while you can"! And the refrain they heard more than once was "Well, I guess Disney doesn't care about autistic children"!

I still place my bets on Disney in this fight. They have to provide a reasonable accomodation that allows an experience equivalent to what abled customers experience and they can claim a business hardship in having to do more. This would be most pronounced with older attractions or those with a small hourly capacity. And you can bet Disney has volumes of metrics to back this up.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I am sympathetic. I remember being in the first aid at Disneyland when a kid was brought in freaking out from being in the crowds on Main Street during the fireworks. I felt the same way. I hope he's alright.

 

[beachlover4444]

So I have nothing against a truly disabled person but the ADA needs to be re thought to reflect current society, because so many people are finding ways to cheat around it. You are no longer required to provide paperwork on a dog or make them wear the vest the only thing a hotel can legally ask is what task does your animal perform. We can require pets to stay with their owners at all times and not be left in the room because if it truly does perform that service it should be with you always. People walk in with their lap dogs and lie that they are for anxiety which by the way is not recognized as a disability dog just wanna get around the law. Read the ADA laws some time its an eye opener. on the autism issue, are we next going to say kids with ADD or ADHD can’t wait in lines, or I knew a lady who couldn’t be in the sun and that changed our high school graduation from the football field to a horribly undersized gym, or what about those with severe illnesses like cancer, etc? Where does it stop?

 

[Darkbeer1]

Reasonable accomidation. So the lady who needed to avoid the sun,, a pop up sun shade should have been enough. Like you see near a Bus Stop offering free Obamaphones, or at a Sports Field.

Glad that at least airlines got permission due to FAA safety laws, to limit the type of emotional support animals, plus proof of need (Dr.'s Note) and proper basic training, including potty training and behavior training.

As stated, those who truly need ADA accommodations would be happy for some sort of standardized documentation to cut down on abuse.

 

[mickEblu]

From what I understand don’t people with the DAS card still get to immediately ride any attraction with Q’s that are not ADA compliant? Isn’t that like half of the rides at DL?

 

[Darkbeer1]

From what I understand don’t people with the DAS card still get to immediately ride any attraction with Q’s that are not ADA compliant? Isn’t that like half of the rides at DL?

No, the basic policy is to be given a return time to match the current stand by wait time. Each ride is different, some limit the amount of disabled riders at one time in case the ride breaks down and has to be evacuated.

 

[Ismael Flores]

Alas the way Federal law is written Disney can't ask. Same with the Airlines and bring animals on board. Or how those with pet allugies are having problems everywhere due to the support animal claim issue in any public space including restaurants.

Almost all truly stricken with some sort of Disability would be willing to get some sort of documentation to show their true need for accomidation to cut down on the abuse.

Same with changing the California ridiculously loose issuance of Disability parking placards and plates along with lax enforcement. All this does is take away and hurt those truly in need. And I speak from experience as I need accommodation due to basically dying last year and ended up in a coma for a couple of weeks. Doing a lot better but still have issues some will never go away no matter how much rehab I go through.

I carry my DMV issued paper that comes with my placard and license plates. The document clearly says it must be carried with me at all times and presented if needed. I am guessing that is in case i park somewhere in a disabled space and a police officer decides to question my reason for parking there. I have heard of people being checked occasionally to make sure that the actual recipient is on board the vehicle and its not just a family member taking advantage of the system.

I ride the metrolink train and buy the disabled monthly ticket and never have been asked to verify by conductor except by one Los Angeles Sherriff. I have never looked into how the law works but you would think that if an officer of the law is allowed to verify disabled status then the same should be for anyone else where as a customer you are asking for disabled privileges. I think the limitation should go as to proving disability without asking what the disability is.

I tend to not use any of the disabled options in Disney parks. I just don't see then need especially since i can get a fastpass or go back on a less busy day.

The one time i did want to use it was when i was with another disabled friend and i was starting to have a rough time standing in one place for to long. with cane in hand i walked up to the booth on the now Pixar Pier and asked what my options where.

-CM - well DCA attractions are all designed with wide queues that can handle wheel chairs. Of course I mentioned to her that i didn't have a wheel chair.
-CM - she asked "what limits you from standing in line".
-i wasn't sure how to answer that so i asked, Are you asking me what my disability is? I don't mind telling you but that is not something you should be asking.
-CM - I never asked you that i know better because i am professionally trained to handle these situations.

At that point i had no idea what she was asking so i asked again

-ME - so what do you mean by what limits me from standing in line other than me telling you that i am a registered disabled person for life?
-CM - yes i understand but why are you limited to stand in line?

I swear it was the most awkward thing so i just straight out and told her,

-ME - the fact that I have necrosis of the hip and leg.
-CM - sir i didn't ask what your disability is just what limits you from standing in long lines.

At that point I said thank you and walked away, just standing there going back and forth was started to get to me. Went to the nearest bar and had a drink.

so from that experience it seemed like unless i was in a wheelchair then they become skeptical of believing guests whether they are disabled or not. not necessarily a bad thing but it creates an awkward and what could be confrontational situation. If i was an a.. hole i could have easily created an issue with guest relations or more.

allowing business to ask for a disable card or DMV issued paper should be the norm and best way to control these situations.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

The DAS card program is actually workable, except for people who made the assumption that the old GAC program was the Willy Wonka Golden Ticket that would put them at the front of the line for any attraction. I have visited the park with friends who have mobility impairments including a leg amputee who uses a wheelchair and crutches. My experience is that with fast pass and return times it is manageable. One of my friends who is not a full-time wheelchair user actually brings their chair so they always have a place to sit down. Most of the time they push it (walking is OK, standing for long periods is not). This is crucial at DCA where there are no return times.

There are still limitations on accessibility on older attractions, like Pirates and Haunted Mansion. But new rides are being built to be more accessible and others are being retro-fitted. I have heard that Disney expects to make further investment into older attractions over time. Originally, Pirates and Mansion were not at all wheelchair accessible. Many years ago they replaced the stairs at Pirates exit with a ramp and added a second bridge over the bayou to the disembarking dock. Mansion added a ramp at the front door, a staging area for wheelchairs and a gate in the middle of the loading belt. The Fire Marshall still limits occupancy to three wheelchairs downstairs at a time and now ECVs must transfer to a loaner manual chair at the front door. Big Thunder got a new ramp and staging area on its last rehab. Space Mountain now has a side track to divert sleds for wheelchair boarding. Racers and TSMM have side tracks, as well. Little Mermaid's wheelchair chariots are a sight to behold--they can load a wheelchair at slow speed without stopping the ride.

I have a friend who left Guest Relations because of having to deal with guests who weren't getting their way on this. Too many of them don't care about gaining access equal to abled guests--they want to jump to the front of the line. Another friend worked the Fantasmic! viewing area and had multiple guests approach with their GAC or DAS card and ask "where's my reserved seat?". So the problem is people with an inflated sense of entitlement, not the need for accessibility.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

The DAS card program is actually workable, except for people who made the assumption that the old GAC program was the Willy Wonka Golden Ticket that would put them at the front of the line for any attraction. I have visited the park with friends who have mobility impairments including a leg amputee who uses a wheelchair and crutches. My experience is that with fast pass and return times it is manageable. One of my friends who is not a full-time wheelchair user actually brings their chair so they always have a place to sit down. Most of the time they push it (walking is OK, standing for long periods is not). This is crucial at DCA where there are no return times.

There are still limitations on accessibility on older attractions, like Pirates and Haunted Mansion. But new rides are being built to be more accessible and others are being retro-fitted. I have heard that Disney expects to make further investment into older attractions over time. Originally, Pirates and Mansion were not at all wheelchair accessible. Many years ago they replaced the stairs at Pirates exit with a ramp and added a second bridge over the bayou to the disembarking dock. Mansion added a ramp at the front door, a staging area for wheelchairs and a gate in the middle of the loading belt. The Fire Marshall still limits occupancy to three wheelchairs downstairs at a time and now ECVs must transfer to a loaner manual chair at the front door. Big Thunder got a new ramp and staging area on its last rehab. Space Mountain now has a side track to divert sleds for wheelchair boarding. Racers and TSMM have side tracks, as well. Little Mermaid's wheelchair chariots are a sight to behold--they can load a wheelchair at slow speed without stopping the ride.

I have a friend who left Guest Relations because of having to deal with guests who weren't getting their way on this. Too many of them don't care about gaining access equal to abled guests--they want to jump to the front of the line. Another friend worked the Fantasmic! viewing area and had multiple guests approach with their GAC or DAS card and ask "where's my reserved seat?". So the problem is people with an inflated sense of entitlement, not the need for accessibility.

Let me qualify this--I'm not saying that Disney can't do better. They can and they should. But it's not that they aren't trying. They consult with disability advocacy groups including for autism. New attractions are much more accessible. They continue to retrofit legacy facilities. Frankly, from what I've heard from CMs they have much farther to go for CM accessibility. But I've heard both very positive and very negative accounts.

But "reasonable accommodation" under the ADA is not the same as "I want what I want when I want it how I want it" and "I want what I believe I used to have according to my self-serving fantasy". I'm ready, willing, and able to hold Disney accountable if they're not meeting their obligations under ADA. But there is widespread abuse of any system they put in place, while people who genuinely need assistance are put under undeserved scrutiny.

 

[Phroobar]

I carry my DMV issued paper that comes with my placard and license plates. The document clearly says it must be carried with me at all times and presented if needed. I am guessing that is in case i park somewhere in a disabled space and a police officer decides to question my reason for parking there. I have heard of people being checked occasionally to make sure that the actual recipient is on board the vehicle and its not just a family member taking advantage of the system.

I ride the metrolink train and buy the disabled monthly ticket and never have been asked to verify by conductor except by one Los Angeles Sherriff. I have never looked into how the law works but you would think that if an officer of the law is allowed to verify disabled status then the same should be for anyone else where as a customer you are asking for disabled privileges. I think the limitation should go as to proving disability without asking what the disability is.

I tend to not use any of the disabled options in Disney parks. I just don't see then need especially since i can get a fastpass or go back on a less busy day.

The one time i did want to use it was when i was with another disabled friend and i was starting to have a rough time standing in one place for to long. with cane in hand i walked up to the booth on the now Pixar Pier and asked what my options where.

-CM - well DCA attractions are all designed with wide queues that can handle wheel chairs. Of course I mentioned to her that i didn't have a wheel chair.
-CM - she asked "what limits you from standing in line".
-i wasn't sure how to answer that so i asked, Are you asking me what my disability is? I don't mind telling you but that is not something you should be asking.
-CM - I never asked you that i know better because i am professionally trained to handle these situations.

At that point i had no idea what she was asking so i asked again

-ME - so what do you mean by what limits me from standing in line other than me telling you that i am a registered disabled person for life?
-CM - yes i understand but why are you limited to stand in line?

I swear it was the most awkward thing so i just straight out and told her,

-ME - the fact that I have necrosis of the hip and leg.
-CM - sir i didn't ask what your disability is just what limits you from standing in long lines.

At that point I said thank you and walked away, just standing there going back and forth was started to get to me. Went to the nearest bar and had a drink.

so from that experience it seemed like unless i was in a wheelchair then they become skeptical of believing guests whether they are disabled or not. not necessarily a bad thing but it creates an awkward and what could be confrontational situation. If i was an a.. hole i could have easily created an issue with guest relations or more.

allowing business to ask for a disable card or DMV issued paper should be the norm and best way to control these situations.

I've had that same conversation for my son (who has CP) with CMs. Some CMs will give you the run around but others will do it. It's just a matter of finding someone else. Besides I don't think the CMs know what a disability is or just don't feel like handing out a virtual fast pass. We've never had a problem at Knotts. In fact we were pulled out of line by an Knotts employee and told to use the disabled entrance.