Are park reservations going away?

[Jrb1979]

This. There should be a benefit for those of us staying on site and for those who are buying annual passes.

The problem comes down to that there isn't enough ride capacity for this many people to have access to skip the line. Which is really why Genie+ doesn't work.

 

[mikejs78]

I would be thrilled if:

• I could make my first LL and any ILL purchases before I arrived in WDW for my entire stay, rather than at 7 AM on the day of.
• I could select my LL times instead of having to take the next available
• I could modify a time.

 

[mikejs78]

The problem comes down to that there isn't enough ride capacity for this many people to have access to skip the line. Which is really why Genie+ doesn't work.

This doesn't add up to me. What is it, about a third, maybe up to a half, of all guests are using Genie+? Nearly 100% of guests used FP+, yet it still worked better than this.

 

[ToTBellHop]

This doesn't add up to me. What is it, about a third, maybe up to a half, of all guests are using Genie+? Nearly 100% of guests used FP+, yet it still worked better than this.

A lower portion of ride capacity is dedicated to LL than was dedicated to FP+. The impact of this is that standby lines now move more quickly than in the past. And they’ve leveled the playing field by having everyone book day-of. Not everyone booked FP+ 60+10 days out.

As for the clunkiness of the actual system (can’t pick time; it can change dramatically during the booking process; can’t change time), no idea why that happened. It’s almost as though they lost the code and the coders who made FP+ since Genie+ manages to feel less technologically-sophisticated than FP+ did.

 

[nickys]

Couldn’t say. I know some sort of pre-booking option (especially if at a resort on-site) is on the table. Could be tiered as was once rumored for FP+.

Obviously, more things to book are needed.

So the rumours about adding G+ to buy cupcakes and dole whip are true then?

 

[ToTBellHop]

So the rumours about adding G+ to buy cupcakes and dole whip are true then?

No, but it influences decisions on entertainment. And a certain very-white coaster. Of course, progress at Disney almost never occurs more quickly than continental drift.

 

[nickys]

As for the clunkiness of the actual system (can’t pick time; it can change dramatically during the booking process; can’t change time), no idea why that happened. It’s almost as though they lost the code and the coders who made FP+ since Genie+ manages to feel less technologically-sophisticated than FP+ did.

I agree 100%.

I remember reading that they used the FP+ system as the basis for the park reservation system. At the time I assumed that they would have used a copy of the code for such purposes.

Could it be that they didn’t bother cloning the code first? And don’t have a backup of it? It seems ridiculous to even contemplate that being the case. And yet ……. it probably isn’t beyond the realms of possibility.

 

[nickys]

No, but it influences decisions on entertainment. And a certain very-white coaster. Of course, progress at Disney almost never occurs more quickly than continental drift.

Did you miss the sarcasm?

 

[Jrb1979]

A lower portion of ride capacity is dedicated to LL than was dedicated to FP+. The impact of this is that standby lines now move more quickly than in the past. And they’ve leveled the playing field by having everyone book day-of. Not everyone booked FP+ 60+10 days out.

As for the clunkiness of the actual system (can’t pick time; it can change dramatically during the booking process; can’t change time), no idea why that happened. It’s almost as though they lost the code and the coders who made FP+ since Genie+ manages to feel less technologically-sophisticated than FP+ did.

I don't know the reason why it can change your time drastically other it being clunky. As far as not being able to pick your time, IMO it's purposely set that way to control crowds. Look at the interview with Josh D'Amaro.

That’s a good sign. People want the product. We’re able to see that guests who are purchasing Genie+ are getting on more of their preferred attractions. We know they’re moving around the parks in ways that are productive for them and, quite frankly, productive for the park. We can make sure that everybody is enjoying a great experience, and where there are pinch points we can redirect people. The early results are strong for us, but are we done? Not even close.”

 

[mikejs78]

I don't know the reason why it can change your time drastically other it being clunky. As far as not being able to pick your time, IMO it's purposely set that way to control crowds. Look at the interview with Josh D'Amaro.

That’s a good sign. People want the product. We’re able to see that guests who are purchasing Genie+ are getting on more of their preferred attractions. We know they’re moving around the parks in ways that are productive for them and, quite frankly, productive for the park. We can make sure that everybody is enjoying a great experience, and where there are pinch points we can redirect people. The early results are strong for us, but are we done? Not even close.”

He was talking specifically about Disneyland there. It seems Genie+ works decently in Disneyland, just not in WDW.

 

[Ayla]

He was talking specifically about Disneyland there. It seems Genie+ works decently in Disneyland, just not in WDW.

From everything I've read, Genie+ does seem to work much better at DLR, because they have the ride capacity to support it.

 

[Jrb1979]

He was talking specifically about Disneyland there. It seems Genie+ works decently in Disneyland, just not in WDW.

It works there cause of the amount of attractions compared to WDW. To put in perspective Cedar Point has 71 rides and attractions in 1 park. WDW has 58 over 4 parks.

 

[mikejs78]

It works there cause of the amount of attractions compared to WDW. To put in perspective Cedar Point has 71 rides and attractions in 1 park. WDW has 58 over 4 parks.

That's part of it, yes. But it's also because people vacation differently in places like cedar point and Disneyland that they do in Disney World. It's a different beast.

 

[Jrb1979]

That's part of it, yes. But it's also because people vacation differently in places like cedar point and Disneyland that they do in Disney World. It's a different beast.

IMO the biggest issue Disney did to themselves is push people to plan out a lot of their days when at Disney World.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Everyone used FP+. Not everyone uses Genie+. So you immediately reduce the number of reservations required. This issue right now is many of the entertainment options still aren’t available.

And they definitely want to incentivize resort guests over others. They don’t care very much about day-trippers, most of whom already aren’t getting Slinky Dog or Rise.

What your suggesting sounds a lot more like what you want Disney to want, as opposed to what Disney wants. The system they had in place did heavily incentivize resort guests over others. You want them to go back to FP. BUT they spent significant efforts making wholesale changes AWAY from that model.

The old FP system was arguably an incentive to promote on site property stays. It gave a massive benefit to on property guests vs off site. It also gave big benefits to people booking longer consecutive day stays, over small stays. All guests had access to the system for free, but the benefits and use of the system depended on where you were staying.

Now they want the line skipping service to be revenue generating. That means 1) the system has to give you something for the cost, and 2) you want to increase your customer base of people using the system. The effect of 2 is that it has to add value to a broader range of guests, not just limited to on site guests, bc otherwise other guests aren't going pay for it.

 

[nickys]

What your suggesting sounds a lot more like what you want Disney to want, as opposed to what Disney wants. The system they had in place did heavily incentivize resort guests over others. You want them to go back to FP. BUT they spent significant efforts making wholesale changes AWAY from that model.

The old FP system was arguably an incentive to promote on site property stays. It gave a massive benefit to on property guests vs off site. It also gave big benefits to people booking longer consecutive day stays, over small stays. All guests had access to the system for free, but the benefits and use of the system depended on where you were staying.

Now they want the line skipping service to be revenue generating. That means 1) the system has to give you something for the cost, and 2) you want to increase your customer base of people using the system. The effect of 2 is that it has to add value to a broader range of guests, not just limited to on site guests, bc otherwise other guests aren't going pay for it.

But there will always be fewer people using the new system.

The system they came up with doesn’t work well for WDW. They realise they have to make changes, but whether they make the right changes to make it work better at WDW remains to be seen. The figure @lentesta quoted suggests there are at least some people who think nothing except a complete re-write will fix the problems. Somehow I doubt that will happen.

However WDW is not the only resort where they seem to have got it wrong. DLP appear to already be adding a feature very close to what they had before with a “ride everything once” option. Presumably they are hoping this will encourage more people to pay for it.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

IMO the biggest issue Disney did to themselves is push people to plan out a lot of their days when at Disney World.

It makes sense thought for Disney (especially Disney over other parks) to make people have the ability to plan out there days. First Disney has multiple parks, multiple different operations points. By having plans be done in advance, you help allocate manpower and help with crowd control/dispersal. Genie and park reservations are an extension of that over FP. Hell the 180 dining reservation was almost a defacto park reservation system. Yes park hoping would skew those numbers slightly but it would give you a trend.

Second while i have never been to Cedar Point Ohio, it doesn't strike me that that park, or say six flags, or even Dollyworld, has the local competition that WDW has. If your booking a trip to Cedar Point, you are likely going to the park, or I guess hanging out at the hotel? If there was no planning with WDW and you could really just go day by day, you would allow people to say, hey maybe instead of HS today, lets go to universal, or bush gardens, or Sea World, or ..insert other Orlando/FLA based activity here. Pre-planning of your week long trip locks you into WDW. Sure there is going to be some flexibility, maybe i skip a dining reservation bc i got a FP (now LL) that i wanted day off. But your not leaving your pre-planned park.

And third, this is a little subjective, but I always found pre-planning meant i was trying to fill the day, fit as many things (and spending opportunities) as possible. Look there is a dining reservation we can get for lunch $, and we have fast passes for slinky dog dash 2 hours later. Nice, we can fit in building a droid in between, or look we can get into Olga's after, ect. Now lets make sure we purchase the LL for Rise at the time we want $ so it doesn't interfere with our droid building $ or hitting Mama Melrose for Dinner $.

 

[ToTBellHop]

What your suggesting sounds a lot more like what you want Disney to want, as opposed to what Disney wants. The system they had in place did heavily incentivize resort guests over others. You want them to go back to FP. BUT they spent significant efforts making wholesale changes AWAY from that model.

The old FP system was arguably an incentive to promote on site property stays. It gave a massive benefit to on property guests vs off site. It also gave big benefits to people booking longer consecutive day stays, over small stays. All guests had access to the system for free, but the benefits and use of the system depended on where you were staying.

Now they want the line skipping service to be revenue generating. That means 1) the system has to give you something for the cost, and 2) you want to increase your customer base of people using the system. The effect of 2 is that it has to add value to a broader range of guests, not just limited to on site guests, bc otherwise other guests aren't going pay for it.

I am saying they are specifically looking into ways to further incentivize an on-site stay beyond the current incentives. The parks are there to fill hotels and sell-out DVCs.

I don’t want anything in particular for Genie+ other than it leaving. I preferred how lines moved before Genie+ arrived.

But I’m sure Genie+ is as permanent as D’Amaro and Chapek.

They never really wanted day-trippers using G+. Is was meant to help vacationers (esp. on-site) have a great trip without all the planning. But demand was much higher than expected. Now they need to find a new way to get this benefit to the folks paying big bucks to be close to the Magic. Sky-high stress among guests at the Grand was not the plan.

 

[lentesta]

The system they came up with doesn’t work well for WDW. They realise they have to make changes, but whether they make the right changes to make it work better at WDW remains to be seen. The figure @lentesta quoted suggests there are at least some people who think nothing except a complete re-write will fix the problems. Somehow I doubt that will happen.

My understanding is that the bulk of the $ will go towards fixing issues with Genie. It's not doing the crowd-leveling thing that management wanted, and it's not doing the schedule planning that guests think it should be doing. (For example, producing a schedule that includes the things the guest says they want to see, makes the software much more complicated. Asking the guest if they're going to leave before park closing, and working that into the schedule, makes the software much more complicated. Etc.)

My guess is that there'll be minor tweaks to the G+/ILL side of things, mainly around adding capacity, because it's generating huge revenue. I don't think there's any appetite to spend a lot to update Genie, since it's not generating revenue.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Nearly 100% of guests used FP+

Nah, there were tons of one and done guests who had no idea what FP was and assumed it was an upcharge system. I’d bet the number of people using fastpass was at most 80 percent, maybe even les.s.