Keyblade Jedi
Active Member
Sorry about That. I Was Busy with Other Projects and the Outside World.
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Another generation: Magic Kingdom (my way)
- Thread starter mharrington
- Start date
Sorry about That. I Was Busy with Other Projects and the Outside World.
So again, I ask: based on the basic rundown in post #140, how can we connect the scenes so they flow naturally?
Keyblade Jedi
Active Member
I Have No Idea, But I Have a Brand Idea by Having the New Preshow with Audio Clips from Favorite Goofy Cartoons.
orlando678-
Well-Known Member
Hmmm what about slightly changing the order like Goofy hitting two cars, goofy on the road, driving to the woods, photographing animals, goes camping, goes fishing, then he ends up surfing, lands on a golf court, where he chases his ball which he shot on the tracks of the rollercoaster, gets dizzy and finally goes back home after a long day full of excitement and fun
spacemt354
Chili's
I was going to suggest something similar - nice!
I would probably switch the golfing and surfing scenes, but other than that, good ideas.
I'm thinking of doing a rethink on the Mickey-themed area in the back. I'm thinking of doing the area as a more woodsy area, to help blend more comfortably with Frontierland/Liberty Square, something like a revived version of Camp Minnie-Mickey, but more improved with actual rides and not just a few random shows and character meets.
I'm also thinking of bringing in that Mickey dark ride, Mickey's Magical Madcap Adventure: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...project-four-open-brainstorming.924777/page-4. The only challenge with that is the space necessary, which this shows here:
The space for the ride is jutting out into the parking space, which I believe is pretty important.
I'm also thinking of bringing in that Mickey dark ride, Mickey's Magical Madcap Adventure: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...project-four-open-brainstorming.924777/page-4. The only challenge with that is the space necessary, which this shows here:
The space for the ride is jutting out into the parking space, which I believe is pretty important.
Twilight_Roxas
Well-Known Member
Hey Marrington any plans with the Tower of Terror?
You're thinking of the Studios. This is about the Magic Kingdom.
I'm kind of on the fence about whether to do Mickey's Magical Madcap Adventure or Mickey's Colorfully Timeless Twist. The reason I am indecisive between the two is while they both sound appealing to me, I'm kinda favoring Timeless Twist, as it features elements of Mickey's old cartoons. But the rumor of the Great Movie Ride being replaced by a Mickey ride like this seems to make the Timeless Twist concept kind of redundant.
I'm trying to keep open on how things turn out (one idea will be still available as backup if the other concept happens), but I'd be disappointed if I didn't get to have a ride referencing shorts in the Magic Kingdom rather than the Studios, which is where the Great Movie Ride obviously is.
I'm trying to keep open on how things turn out (one idea will be still available as backup if the other concept happens), but I'd be disappointed if I didn't get to have a ride referencing shorts in the Magic Kingdom rather than the Studios, which is where the Great Movie Ride obviously is.
After the D23 announcement on Parks and Resorts, I have decided to make some modifications based on that. Here's what we know:
A) The Tron coaster will not take over the Speedway, which still lives for the moment.
B) A new Main Street theater involving live Broadway-type shows is being built.
C) The Runaway Railway attraction is going into the Studios, replacing the Great Movie Ride, which is a shame.
Here are my plans based on that:
A) The Speedway is going to be replaced by some new things for a slightly extended Fantasyland. I won't go into details yet, but just wait. Don't get too excited about E-tickets, however, as there is no room for such here. At best it will be a B, maybe a C, but that's it.
B) The new theater for shows may or may not replace the Mickey meet-n-greet at the Town Square Theater, but its location will likely hinder my idea for a Mickey ride on Main Street. Speaking of which...
C) The Runaway Railway attraction is based on the new stylized Mickey cartoons, whereas my Mickey ride, which will still happen in the MK, whatever it may be, will be based on classic Mickey shorts (at least one, anyway). Maybe it will be the Madcap Circus or it could be a revival/revision of the Fun House concept. Either way, it will likely go into the Storybook Circus area, which will receive a new name and break off into its own land, independent of Fantasyland.
A) The Tron coaster will not take over the Speedway, which still lives for the moment.
B) A new Main Street theater involving live Broadway-type shows is being built.
C) The Runaway Railway attraction is going into the Studios, replacing the Great Movie Ride, which is a shame.
Here are my plans based on that:
A) The Speedway is going to be replaced by some new things for a slightly extended Fantasyland. I won't go into details yet, but just wait. Don't get too excited about E-tickets, however, as there is no room for such here. At best it will be a B, maybe a C, but that's it.
B) The new theater for shows may or may not replace the Mickey meet-n-greet at the Town Square Theater, but its location will likely hinder my idea for a Mickey ride on Main Street. Speaking of which...
C) The Runaway Railway attraction is based on the new stylized Mickey cartoons, whereas my Mickey ride, which will still happen in the MK, whatever it may be, will be based on classic Mickey shorts (at least one, anyway). Maybe it will be the Madcap Circus or it could be a revival/revision of the Fun House concept. Either way, it will likely go into the Storybook Circus area, which will receive a new name and break off into its own land, independent of Fantasyland.
Remember when I said that Fantasyland is going to be slightly expanded into Tomorrowland? Well, it will remove Cosmic Ray's. Not to worry, though, a new Cosmic Ray's will open in the Tomorrowland Theater area near the Carousel of Progress, much larger than before hopefully. Replacing the old Cosmic Ray's is a new Pinocchio's Village Haus. The old Village Haus spot is in flux right now, but I'm kind of leaning towards something based on "Tangled" (i.e., the Snuggly Duckling or maybe the Tangled Tree Tavern or something).
Anyway, replacing the Speedway, will be a slight Pinocchio-themed area. This will be home to a ride called "Geppetto's Workshop", but it will no longer be a swing ride. Instead, it will be an indoor ride themed to Geppetto's wooden toy carvings. However, in this case, they would be of toy versions of Pinocchio, Jiminy Cricket, Figaro and Cleo. Originally, I was thinking of having it be something like Mater's Junkyard Jamboree, a whip ride, but the current rumor seems to be that that kind of ride will be used for the upcoming Alien ride at the new Toy Story Land at the Studios, so that's not really going to work. Instead, the ride system will be based on Luigi's Rollicking Roadsters, a trackless "dancing" system.
To try and hide this area from Tomorrowland and thus not make it so jarring, the area will probably have rocks on that side or something. Sorry, best I can do on short notice.
Anyway, replacing the Speedway, will be a slight Pinocchio-themed area. This will be home to a ride called "Geppetto's Workshop", but it will no longer be a swing ride. Instead, it will be an indoor ride themed to Geppetto's wooden toy carvings. However, in this case, they would be of toy versions of Pinocchio, Jiminy Cricket, Figaro and Cleo. Originally, I was thinking of having it be something like Mater's Junkyard Jamboree, a whip ride, but the current rumor seems to be that that kind of ride will be used for the upcoming Alien ride at the new Toy Story Land at the Studios, so that's not really going to work. Instead, the ride system will be based on Luigi's Rollicking Roadsters, a trackless "dancing" system.
To try and hide this area from Tomorrowland and thus not make it so jarring, the area will probably have rocks on that side or something. Sorry, best I can do on short notice.
I'm thinking of reviving my Mickey's Mad/Fun House concept, but modify it somewhat. I want to set it up so that it can be replicated in other parks, such as in France and maybe Hong Kong. I would use the Big Top Spin concept, but the problem is that I'm not sure how popular circuses are in the world, as compared to the United States.
In any case, the location for this ride would for better or worse take over Pete's Silly Sideshow, thus taking away an ideal spot for meet-n-greets. Not that it's much a total loss, since it's just Disney characters seen frequently anyway, just dressed up in circus duds. Actually, there is a reason I've been thinking of this location, and it comes from this article from the Passport 2 Dreams blog, which criticizes the Magic Kingdom for its blunders throughout its history, one of which, in the author's opinion, was Mickey's Birthdayland/Starland/Toontown Fair. Near the end, it singles out the tents of the area in particular, which were retained from the transformation from Starland to Toontown Fair, and which were transformed into meet-n-greets and a shop, which were ostensibly retained for their alleged profitability:
By 2001 the Toontown tent complex had become the single most profitable structure per square foot at Magic Kingdom. Mickey was the anchor, pulling crowds into Toontown, then dispersing them through a variety of shops and photograph locations. This profitability would ensure that the tents would survive yet another round of renovations - Storybook Circus.
[...]
Despite the fact that the reasons for the success of those tents were being scattered to the winds, it was proclaimed by fiat that the tents must remain due to their profitability. What had previously been the Princess Tent was transformed into Pete's Silly Sideshow, a permanent venue for Mickey, Donald, Minnie and Daisy with a nicely done circus theme. The crowds never quite returned to their original levels. What had previously been a bustling store where Princess dresses and Mickey dolls flew off the shelves now seems nearly abandoned after nightfall. The Sideshow meet and greet has started closing early.
[...]
Now that the power of the circus tents is on the wane, it really would be a nice gesture to finally lose them and build a permanent ride in that spot. The three Storybook Circus tents take up about as much room as the Mermaid ride next door. The basic problem is that the use of tents, no matter how nicely you build them or how intricately you theme them, still evoke temporary structures and, by extension, cheapness. Cheap ideas and cheap aesthetics are what Birthdayland initiated, yet it must be said that the new Magician Mickey and Fairytale Hall attractions are far above its standard, leaving just those three tents as symbols of Birthdayland's enduring legacy.
Thus, this whole area will be the new spot for this new dark ride. The only problem is, as I've said before, I want to be able to duplicate this ride in other parks throughout the world, like Paris and maybe Hong Kong, but I don't know how popular circuses or circus elements are in the world.
It seems rather difficult to pull off beyond the Magic Kingdom without a circus-like land, and all there is in these parks in most cases is Dumbo.
I will do a thread (yet another one!) on this Mickey dark ride soon, but until then, what are your thoughts?
In any case, the location for this ride would for better or worse take over Pete's Silly Sideshow, thus taking away an ideal spot for meet-n-greets. Not that it's much a total loss, since it's just Disney characters seen frequently anyway, just dressed up in circus duds. Actually, there is a reason I've been thinking of this location, and it comes from this article from the Passport 2 Dreams blog, which criticizes the Magic Kingdom for its blunders throughout its history, one of which, in the author's opinion, was Mickey's Birthdayland/Starland/Toontown Fair. Near the end, it singles out the tents of the area in particular, which were retained from the transformation from Starland to Toontown Fair, and which were transformed into meet-n-greets and a shop, which were ostensibly retained for their alleged profitability:
By 2001 the Toontown tent complex had become the single most profitable structure per square foot at Magic Kingdom. Mickey was the anchor, pulling crowds into Toontown, then dispersing them through a variety of shops and photograph locations. This profitability would ensure that the tents would survive yet another round of renovations - Storybook Circus.
[...]
Despite the fact that the reasons for the success of those tents were being scattered to the winds, it was proclaimed by fiat that the tents must remain due to their profitability. What had previously been the Princess Tent was transformed into Pete's Silly Sideshow, a permanent venue for Mickey, Donald, Minnie and Daisy with a nicely done circus theme. The crowds never quite returned to their original levels. What had previously been a bustling store where Princess dresses and Mickey dolls flew off the shelves now seems nearly abandoned after nightfall. The Sideshow meet and greet has started closing early.
[...]
Now that the power of the circus tents is on the wane, it really would be a nice gesture to finally lose them and build a permanent ride in that spot. The three Storybook Circus tents take up about as much room as the Mermaid ride next door. The basic problem is that the use of tents, no matter how nicely you build them or how intricately you theme them, still evoke temporary structures and, by extension, cheapness. Cheap ideas and cheap aesthetics are what Birthdayland initiated, yet it must be said that the new Magician Mickey and Fairytale Hall attractions are far above its standard, leaving just those three tents as symbols of Birthdayland's enduring legacy.
Thus, this whole area will be the new spot for this new dark ride. The only problem is, as I've said before, I want to be able to duplicate this ride in other parks throughout the world, like Paris and maybe Hong Kong, but I don't know how popular circuses or circus elements are in the world.
It seems rather difficult to pull off beyond the Magic Kingdom without a circus-like land, and all there is in these parks in most cases is Dumbo.
I will do a thread (yet another one!) on this Mickey dark ride soon, but until then, what are your thoughts?
spacemt354
Chili's
Cirque du Soleil is French for Circus of the Sun. While based in Canada they perform around the world (including Hong Kong) and their French origins are pretty clear in the title.
Les Colporteurs is another circus act, this time actually from France.
Casey Jr. Le Petit Train du Cirque is an attraction in Disneyland Paris, which adds an additional Dumbo attraction and the potential for a circus area.
Shanghai Disneyland also has Mickey Avenue, along with the Gardens of Imagination, which are both ripe for a Mickey Fun House attraction, because there is so much space left in that park to develop.
So I'd say - go for it! Circus is pretty popular in France and in Shanghai (not sure about Hong Kong) there is plenty of room to develop a circus area.
However, what of circuses like what is seen in "Dumbo"? I believe those are on the wane, due in no small part to animal rights activists, and rightfully so, I believe.
Also, I just posted a thread about Mickey's Fun House, which I'm still struggling to do after all these years.
I'm thinking of using the space for the Tomorrowland Terrace and the Plaza Restaurant as a spot for a dark ride, which I've gone into briefly on this thread here: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...ybook-circus-open-brainstorming.936029/page-3.
It was argued, and rightfully so, that the Tomorrowland Terrace had a fireworks dessert party, and that no one would want that to be lost. To make up for that, replacing the Tomorrowland stage area will be a new double-decker restaurant with outside seating on the second level that will provide relatively clear views of the fireworks. This is also where Sonny Eclipse from the former Cosmic Ray's Starlight Cafe will perform now.
What do you think?
It was argued, and rightfully so, that the Tomorrowland Terrace had a fireworks dessert party, and that no one would want that to be lost. To make up for that, replacing the Tomorrowland stage area will be a new double-decker restaurant with outside seating on the second level that will provide relatively clear views of the fireworks. This is also where Sonny Eclipse from the former Cosmic Ray's Starlight Cafe will perform now.
What do you think?
I noticed that, at least according to the Birnbaum guide, the Magic Kingdom has no less than SIX sit-down eateries:
Therefore, I have to ask, does WDW's MK really need that many sit-down places? Yes, the Crystal Palace is a sit-down place, too, but it is more of a buffet deal, as opposed to table service.
As for a dessert party, I had an idea for one on the Riverboat, which will no longer be an attraction.
- Be Our Guest Restaurant (Fantasyland)
- Cinderella's Royal Table (Fantasyland)
- Liberty Tree Tavern (Liberty Square)
- Plaza Restaurant (Main Street)
- Skipper's Canteen (Adventureland)
- Tony's Town Square Restaurant (Main Street)
Therefore, I have to ask, does WDW's MK really need that many sit-down places? Yes, the Crystal Palace is a sit-down place, too, but it is more of a buffet deal, as opposed to table service.
As for a dessert party, I had an idea for one on the Riverboat, which will no longer be an attraction.
Another idea I had was to move the dessert party to a new spot in Tomorrowland, which will be home to a brand-new restaurant, an updated version of Cosmic Ray's, the old location of which will be closed. This will be a new double-level place, the upper level will function similar to the Tomorrowland Skyline Lounge at Disneyland.
Where will this eatery go? Right in a spot not very popular right now, of course. That spot is the current Tomorrowland Theater, which seems really rushed and thrown together. According to Passport 2 Dreams, this spot ranks #7 on that blog's article on the Top Ten Magic Kingdom Design Blunders; the context being a stage show themed to Stitch, circa 2009. Here's what the article said there:
Everything old is new again!
That's good news for the Peoplemover and the Carousel of Progress, but it's bad news for remembering mistakes that were made long, long ago.
The background here is that in 1980, Magic Kingdom turned what was originally an open seating area West of the Carousel of Progress into an open-air stage, the Tomorrowland Theater. This stage was, in a word, lousy. The backstage facilities were no more than some permanently-parked trailers, the seating and "walls" were pounded into asphalt with pegs. The seats were standard metal baseball bleachers. If, like me, you ever went up on the stage, you could hear its simple metal framework shifting and creaking under your weight.
The Entertainment Department hated using this creaky old thing, and who can blame them. Disneyland's Tomorowland gets a lot of energy from the stage and bandstand in the center of the land, so the idea of moving the Tomorrowland stage to a central location and rebuilding it as a more permanent venue was a good one. But literally everything else about this idea was misbegotten.
Entertainment's plans for the stage were originally extremely plain. What little ornamentation exists on the side and front of the humongous box was added by Imagineering late in the game. The entire structure is out of scale for the area it inhabits, introducing aesthetically irrelevant purple boxes. But the fatal mistake was that the whole thing was built with no seating and no shade structure. Although everything else about the original Tomorrowland Stage was cheap, the stage did at least have shade canopies and seats, meaning that people could be persuaded to sit and see whatever happened to be playing in that theater.
The new stage opened one especially hot Spring in 2009, an open air theater sitting in a sea of concrete in the hottest, most punishing area of Magic Kingdom. The show it opened with, Stitch's Supersonic Celebration, has developed quite the toxic reputation in Disney circles, partly because it closed after only a few weeks and partly because Stitch Mania had already played itself out by 2009. But really, it didn't have much to do with the show. Any show that asks its audience to stand or sit on a concrete expanse in Florida in the sun is not going to do well.
[...]
It's now back in nightly use as a dance party venue, but I wouldn't be surprised to see this stage go the way of the dodo if any of the Tomorrowland expansion plans ever materialize. It's one of those "enhancements" that cost a lot of money, didn't work out for anybody, and many would rather it be quietly swept under the rug.
There is a difficulty that the spot is right in the path of the PeopleMover, but perhaps the eatery could be set up so the track can go through the structure? Or perhaps it could be situated partly over the WDW Railroad tracks. This is just an idea I had.
Another idea I had was to utilize the Riverboat as a dessert party facility.
What are your thoughts here?
Where will this eatery go? Right in a spot not very popular right now, of course. That spot is the current Tomorrowland Theater, which seems really rushed and thrown together. According to Passport 2 Dreams, this spot ranks #7 on that blog's article on the Top Ten Magic Kingdom Design Blunders; the context being a stage show themed to Stitch, circa 2009. Here's what the article said there:
Everything old is new again!
That's good news for the Peoplemover and the Carousel of Progress, but it's bad news for remembering mistakes that were made long, long ago.
The background here is that in 1980, Magic Kingdom turned what was originally an open seating area West of the Carousel of Progress into an open-air stage, the Tomorrowland Theater. This stage was, in a word, lousy. The backstage facilities were no more than some permanently-parked trailers, the seating and "walls" were pounded into asphalt with pegs. The seats were standard metal baseball bleachers. If, like me, you ever went up on the stage, you could hear its simple metal framework shifting and creaking under your weight.
The Entertainment Department hated using this creaky old thing, and who can blame them. Disneyland's Tomorowland gets a lot of energy from the stage and bandstand in the center of the land, so the idea of moving the Tomorrowland stage to a central location and rebuilding it as a more permanent venue was a good one. But literally everything else about this idea was misbegotten.
Entertainment's plans for the stage were originally extremely plain. What little ornamentation exists on the side and front of the humongous box was added by Imagineering late in the game. The entire structure is out of scale for the area it inhabits, introducing aesthetically irrelevant purple boxes. But the fatal mistake was that the whole thing was built with no seating and no shade structure. Although everything else about the original Tomorrowland Stage was cheap, the stage did at least have shade canopies and seats, meaning that people could be persuaded to sit and see whatever happened to be playing in that theater.
The new stage opened one especially hot Spring in 2009, an open air theater sitting in a sea of concrete in the hottest, most punishing area of Magic Kingdom. The show it opened with, Stitch's Supersonic Celebration, has developed quite the toxic reputation in Disney circles, partly because it closed after only a few weeks and partly because Stitch Mania had already played itself out by 2009. But really, it didn't have much to do with the show. Any show that asks its audience to stand or sit on a concrete expanse in Florida in the sun is not going to do well.
[...]
It's now back in nightly use as a dance party venue, but I wouldn't be surprised to see this stage go the way of the dodo if any of the Tomorrowland expansion plans ever materialize. It's one of those "enhancements" that cost a lot of money, didn't work out for anybody, and many would rather it be quietly swept under the rug.
There is a difficulty that the spot is right in the path of the PeopleMover, but perhaps the eatery could be set up so the track can go through the structure? Or perhaps it could be situated partly over the WDW Railroad tracks. This is just an idea I had.
Another idea I had was to utilize the Riverboat as a dessert party facility.
What are your thoughts here?
MANEATINGWREATH
Well-Known Member
I'd really hate to see the Riverboat docked and turned into a restaurant if that was the implication. If you're just using it for a dessert party at night, that's fine, just don't remove it from the river entirely.
Also, Martinsvidsdotnet is an excellent YouTube Channel with an extensive look into the history of the Magic Kingdom and its attractions. If you ever check out any of those videos, you will most definitely be seized with inspiration for future additions to this thread.
Great work!
Also, Martinsvidsdotnet is an excellent YouTube Channel with an extensive look into the history of the Magic Kingdom and its attractions. If you ever check out any of those videos, you will most definitely be seized with inspiration for future additions to this thread.
Great work!
I've seen some of Martin's videos, and they are great.
The reason I was thinking of docking the Riverboat is because I was thinking of reusing the space as another land, like what happened with the Rivers of America in Disneyland. I was thinking of having bridges to and from the island (retiring the rafts), which means the bridges would block the Riverboat's path. To compensate for the loss of the Riverboat as an attraction, I was considering reviving the Keelboats around the shortened river.
One reason why I was thinking of this was from an old post in the extensive "If I could improve WDW" thread, in which some have considered gutting Tom Sawyer Island and using the space, of which there is plenty back there, for new attractions, since the river uses up a huge amount of space.
I did a whole thread on that not long ago: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/what-to-put-in-the-northwestern-end-of-the-magic-kingdom.937081/. However, it really went nowhere, since I could never settle on anything to put back there without clashing with the Americana theme that Liberty Square and Frontierland share. At least one person has proposed the Western River ride, but I disagreed, since A) so many of its elements were used elsewhere (i.e., Pirates, Splash Mountain), and B) much of its content (like Native Americans) would not fly today.
One of my ideas was another Mickey and friends land like Toontown (as I had posted a few pages ago here), but I decided it was too odd to have such near Frontierland (rather than Fantasyland). As a compromise, I had proposed something like Camp Minnie-Mickey, but less cheap-looking. But that did not really pan out, particularly since Goofy has his own ride in the park already (the Great Goofini coaster).
I was criticized, not unfairly, for overthinking my ideas, but the thing is I would like them to be realistic. So basically, the northwestern plot of the park remains unfulfilled for now.