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EPCOT Anna, Elsa and Kristoff Audio-Animatronics refresh coming to Frozen Ever After in EPCOT

Stripes

Premium Member
The fact that many signed off on how they looked as good enough tells you all you need to know about how things work now.
“Now” or 10 years ago?

In any industry if you are actually innovating, there will be some decisions that won’t pay off.

Take Apple, for example. They removed SIM cards from their latest iPhones in the U.S. Naturally, people complained. But, they were able to squeeze a bigger battery inside. Most people, if they are even aware, would view that as a decent trade-off. On the other hand, when they replaced the function row on MacBook Pros with a touchscreen it created a worse customer experience. So, they brought back the function row. Same with the super-thin chassis. The increased portability sacrificed thermal ventilation and performance. So they made the chassis thicker again. And MagSafe charging. And butterfly keys.

Similar examples are common among virtually every company in innovative industries.
Actually if they had done it right, they would have left Maelstrom
Why? Maelstrom was as good a candidate as any to be replaced. It was dated, typical guests were confused by its storyline, the attraction wasn’t reviewed favorably by typical guests, and guest demand was minimal so it had limited absorption power and load-balancing value.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
If they would have designed it right the first time, there wouldn’t be a need for a change. The fact that many signed off on how they looked as good enough tells you all you need to know about how things work now.

You mean how things worked then. These choices were largely made in 2014. The grievance is pretty old and predates the production of these types of figures that occurred with the beauty and the beast Tokyo project later that decade.

I’m not saying that puts them off the hook, but the lesson has long been learned and they seem more committed to these new generation figures for their humanoid animated characters.

They had either Mermaid plastic faces or Dwarves to work with. The former retrospectively was preferable, but the dwarves are more successful today. I assume these new gen faces will reflect for Miguel and the Encanto cast as well.
 

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
Moth said:
You know who'd really benefit from a 4-6 month refurbishment? Frozen Ever After. Just swap out the projected faces for physical faces and that's the most of what they'd need to do.

Meant to put this here originally to Moths comment, how it all ended up in the Buzz Lightyear thread instead I don't know but sorry about that......while this was spot on correct lol, plussing a couple of those barren empty scenes upstairs couldn't hurt either. They get away with the "its part of the frozen aesthetic" excuse, but that's always bothered me. It shows they just didn't want to spend on more fully fleshed out scenes.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
How? Having actual AAs and sets? A more coherent story?

I definitely wouldn't call FEA's story more coherent than Maelstrom's. FEA barely has a story. There's no real flow to the FEA scenes; it's basically just a disjointed group of vignettes featuring the characters from the film. And Maelstrom did have AAs and sets (obviously FEA's AAs are a lot more impressive). None of this is to suggest that Maelstrom had a good story, though.

In a vacuum, FEA is probably better than Maelstrom, but it's dragged down by how barren it is in places. It almost feels like they just stopped when they were about 80% finished and opened it as-is. But Maelstrom was a good fit for the Norway pavilion and FEA is a terrible fit. Maelstrom also didn't get long waits -- FEA's wait times are absurd for such a mediocre attraction (which is due to power of the Frozen IP, as I mentioned). It's also a waste of the Frozen IP; they should have built a from scratch attraction elsewhere instead of shoehorning one into the small Maelstrom space.
 
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Biff215

Well-Known Member
Will they close the ride for a refurb? Or will we see the Gran Fiesta method with cardboard cutouts replacing the AAs for a few weeks?
Ha, I’m wondering the same thing, but I’m guessing it will need to go down. It’s probably due for some maintenance anyway. Once SSE is back they can take a month or two in the winter. Can’t imagine they want it down too long as it’s a big LL draw for families with young kids.
 

bmr1591

Well-Known Member
What if they had the animatronics ready, brought them all in in the middle of the night, flipped them on, and let the show go on the next day? (I know this isn’t how it works, but it’d be nice, wouldn’t it?)
 

mergatroid

Well-Known Member
What surprises me the most is that some who've spent years complaining about a problem are now complaining about what Disney are doing to try to rectify those complaints. I certainly don't expect thanks from them as they feel it shouldn't have needing 'upgrading' in the first place. I also don't expect praise either as they feel with the prices Disney charge that this should be the norm and not needing of praise.

However the tiny minority who've just used this to be further negative about something that's been complained about so much already it just feels a bit unnecessary, like you're actually playing into the hands of those who say that you're too negative already. Out of the blue it's announced that Disney are doing something that you've been complaining needs doing and well, you choose to post in another negative way about that and then double down on it. I mean you can post whatever you like and have whatever opinion and view you like but to try to seemingly make out that you're not complaining by commenting about the negative aspect of this seems a bit strange.

Again every person has the right to respond to anything how they want as long as they're not breaking forum rules and I've not seen any of that going on. It just seems like if Disney does something that you don't like that you complain about it. That's fair enough as I guess you're complaining that you don't like what they've done therefore the logical solution is that Disney do it the way you wanted instead? Well if and when Disney do that then you should see that as something that is somewhat a positive and better late than never? But instead some make numerous posts all negative as though there is no positive outcome and as though the changes for the better aren't even a factor and everything is still bad?
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I'd imagine they'll have to significantly rework the lighting on some of these scenes. At Epcot, many of the scenes make heavy use of black lights to illuminate characters and the environment. Whereas these same scenes at Hong Kong use normal non-UV lighting fixtures. So I have to wonder if they're going to repaint any of the sets with non-UV paint as well.

On this matter, it should be noted that this swap-out won't magically make this a good version of the ride. Epcot's is still going to be the worst one out of all of them.

Aside from the superior AA's and lighting changes, HK benefits from having generally much more spacious and detailed sets. There are a number of places that showcase this. The lift hill (and the lengthier bit leading up to it) is a good example. Epcot's lift is extremely narrow with the walls very close to the boats. Much of this area was left dark and unthemed as a result, with only projections of snow effects being used. The ice palace up top is a tiny flat looking model. HK's lift was given a far wider space, they used this to add significant amounts of physical rockwork on the sides in front of the otherwise flat walls. The ice palace model is also much larger and more detailed, much more 3-dimensional.

The scene with Anna, Kristoff and Sven on the upper level is another major improvement.

1760302782916.png


Aside from the aforementioned differences in lighting, HK's set is much larger. Epcot's is extremely narrow and flat, with no illusion of depth whatsoever. Just figures in a mostly empty looking room standing right up against against a flat wall with little detail. Especially glaring because you approach this scene from an angle instead of head-on. The ice railing behind them is also embedded into the wall backdrop and isn't spaced out as its own layer. And the AA's are so close to the background that they actually cast shadows on the sky portion and cause it to appear even flatter as a result. The sky itself is just a blank void with snowflake projections added on top.

At Hong Kong, there is a significant amount of extra space. The AA's aren't as close to the flume, and they added additional props in front of them to improve the depth and help frame them. Helps disguise the flat emptiness of the floor they're standing on too (the lighting fixtures are probably hidden inside these props too instead of the ceiling). They're also spaced further from the background. There was enough room to make the ice railing a completely separate layered element from the sky, you can even see the sky through the spaces of the railing. The sky itself is also much more detailed, having painted mountains instead of a blank void of nothing. This entire scene now looks like a properly layered set with convincing 3-dimensional depth, the sky actually looks like it's far away and not just a flat wall shoved right up against the characters. Someone also had the sense to place some crate props behind Kristoff so that he doesn't cast as much of a shadow on the distant background anymore.

Incidentally, while the above comparison doesn't show this, the left side of the flume was actually themed a little at HK. It was left completely unthemed at Epcot.

There's little they could do about some of the above issues. You can't add extra space where there isn't any. At most they could potentially paint more detail on the walls and fill out the left side better. But that would only go so far. In the end, Epcot's is always going to be the worst version of this ride no matter how many small improvements they might make to it.
 

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Biff215

Well-Known Member
What surprises me the most is that some who've spent years complaining about a problem are now complaining about what Disney are doing to try to rectify those complaints. I certainly don't expect thanks from them as they feel it shouldn't have needing 'upgrading' in the first place. I also don't expect praise either as they feel with the prices Disney charge that this should be the norm and not needing of praise.

However the tiny minority who've just used this to be further negative about something that's been complained about so much already it just feels a bit unnecessary, like you're actually playing into the hands of those who say that you're too negative already. Out of the blue it's announced that Disney are doing something that you've been complaining needs doing and well, you choose to post in another negative way about that and then double down on it. I mean you can post whatever you like and have whatever opinion and view you like but to try to seemingly make out that you're not complaining by commenting about the negative aspect of this seems a bit strange.

Again every person has the right to respond to anything how they want as long as they're not breaking forum rules and I've not seen any of that going on. It just seems like if Disney does something that you don't like that you complain about it. That's fair enough as I guess you're complaining that you don't like what they've done therefore the logical solution is that Disney do it the way you wanted instead? Well if and when Disney do that then you should see that as something that is somewhat a positive and better late than never? But instead some make numerous posts all negative as though there is no positive outcome and as though the changes for the better aren't even a factor and everything is still bad?
Who are you talking to? Not trying to be rude but I honestly haven’t noticed much negativity in this thread. 🤷‍♂️
 

mergatroid

Well-Known Member
Who are you talking to? Not trying to be rude but I honestly haven’t noticed much negativity in this thread. 🤷‍♂️
Well look at the first page and look at the posts that concentrate nearly all on the negative aspects. The ones that are quoted by others way before me. After seemingly being angry for ages over a decision made, now it's being rectified they still choose to concentrate on the negative aspects over anything that is positive. It's their right to do that of course, I'm just pointing out at least one who has quite a different way of looking at this change whilst framing it in a negative way.

They may feel that they're just countering those who are too positive but it just reads as being almost miserable about the fact that something is being done to better things that they've previously used to criticise the company with.
 

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