All things Knotts Berry Farm

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member


I didn't realize the situation was this bad at Knotts. Six Flags used to attract gangs. They had a free TLC concert in the Golden Bear Theater in the 90s.

Tons of people showed up but the park didn't mention that the theater could only seat so many people. There was a huge riot around the city when people found out they couldn't get in to the show.

 
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CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
To get what you pay for. Knott's has had security issues for a long time. Goes with the territory of being the "cheap alternative."
Is it Security issues or just the crowd? I can't imagine Disneyland being any different if the same event took place in the park.

As we saw from Toon Town their security is flawed, or at least was.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Is it Security issues or just the crowd? I can't imagine Disneyland being any different if the same event took place in the park.

Neither, it's the easy access. It was easy and relatively cheap to get into Knott's on Saturday, and as such, some kids organized an event via TikTok.

If Knott's switched to reservations this wouldn't have happened.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Is it Security issues or just the crowd? I can't imagine Disneyland being any different if the same event took place in the park.

As we saw from Toon Town their security is flawed, or at least was.
I think it is crowd. Security did a great job grabbing those in fights but it hard to grab 200 teenagers running amuck scaring the rest of the guests. We saw at Toon Town that Disney security couldn't do any better.

There are solutions to these things like admittance age limits, reservations and higher prices. But do we really need to increase the price to keep the poor out of theme parks? It is very elitist thinking. Society seems to raise the prices on everything to marinized the poor so the rich feel safe. I hate to see Knotts, Universal and MM start to use reservations and extreme high prices in order to keep poor people out.
 

BuzzedPotatoHead89

Well-Known Member
I think it is crowd. Security did a great job grabbing those in fights but it hard to grab 200 teenagers running amuck scaring the rest of the guests. We saw at Toon Town that Disney security couldn't do any better.

There are solutions to these things like admittance age limits, reservations and higher prices. But do we really need to increase the price to keep the poor out of theme parks? It is very elitist thinking. Society seems to raise the prices on everything to marinized the poor so the rich feel safe. I hate to see Knotts, Universal and MM start to use reservations and extreme high prices in order to keep poor people out.
Really no reason to strongly Jack up prices unless as a last resort or to help pay for the necessary security adjustments.

Age limits combined with a strong security presence outside of the park (possibly with a BPPD or OC Sheriff’s station located outside) should suffice.

Once the age limits are enforced it will also serve as a de facto filtering of problematic crowds since most of these teens in questions were apparently being connected via TikTok and likely either took rideshare or were dropped off by parents.
 

Newtwo

Well-Known Member
If you're going to start a fight at a park, at least make it entertaining enough to make the national news like the Toontown Tussle.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Really no reason to strongly Jack up prices unless as a last resort or to help pay for the necessary security adjustments.

Age limits combined with a strong security presence outside of the park (possibly with a BPPD or OC Sheriff’s station located outside) should suffice.

Once the age limits are enforced it will also serve as a de facto filtering of problematic crowds since most of these teens in questions were apparently being connected via TikTok and likely either took rideshare or were dropped off by parents.
I think they do have the police presence outside. I know there is always a Sheriff car parked outside of Knotts. I believe there is a station there. Just haven't really noticed. Even Disneyland has a full police substation on property in DTD.

Regarding the crime rates, Buena Park crime index is 17% safer than the rest of the country. (100% being completely safer than the rest of the country) while Anaheim's is 15%. They can't help were they were built. It's interesting the crime rate directly across the 5 freeway from the Disneyland Resort is much higher than at the resort. That is probably because the Mouse is the only one robbing you there.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/anaheim/crime

For what it is worth, San Francisco comes in at 4%.
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
Really no reason to strongly Jack up prices unless as a last resort or to help pay for the necessary security adjustments.

Age limits combined with a strong security presence outside of the park (possibly with a BPPD or OC Sheriff’s station located outside) should suffice.

Once the age limits are enforced it will also serve as a de facto filtering of problematic crowds since most of these teens in questions were apparently being connected via TikTok and likely either took rideshare or were dropped off by parents.
I used to work at Six Flags in the parking lot and only witnessed one fight in the year I was there. That being said this was the late 2000s, not the 90s (when Six Flags would have many criminal incidents).

You would also have lower income people at Six Flags but just like high income people 99% of them are well behaved.

When it's families it's never an issue, it's when there are groups of teens without parents when they decide to test the boundaries.

Six Flags also has a sheriff's car out front which is probably the best deterrent.

But multiple teen fights at the same time? I don't see anyone being able to prevent this from happening.

Luckily it seems only a few were injured. Looks like these are school kids and not something like crime gangs.
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
Anyway, I did get some new pictures of the new Pizzeria at Knotts. It is pretty impressive. I understand they are doing something similar to Festival Village for next year. This really pulls the area together. The pizza is still pretty bad but the pasta and salads are good.

View attachment 653993
View attachment 653994
View attachment 653995

Here is the new seating area in a carved out lower floor of the theater.

View attachment 653996

The new bathroom has communal sinks but separate doors for men and women. There are two new family restrooms too.
View attachment 653997
It looks VERY similar to Hugo's Italian Restaurant at Cedar Point.

Maybe others are more privy to local dynamics than I, an out-of-stater, but it really does seem like the number of parks that HAVEN'T had similar large scale fights at some point or other is, currently, very small. Not saying it's great or defensible, but to me it's only something to become concerned about if it's a regular issue. I don't know that such a fight necessarily has any real baring on the park and what they are doing or not doing. Heck, the Toontown incident at Disneyland wasn't that long ago and it seems like many people posting about what happened at Knott's have already forgotten it. I just don't think that generalizing about what this says about Knott's does any good or has any real basis in merit unless this is demonstrably a pattern of guest behavior.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
You're right it does have the same kitchen and interior feel. Knott's is just smaller.
dsc00031_1_orig.jpg
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Age limits combined with a strong security presence outside of the park (possibly with a BPPD or OC Sheriff’s station located outside) should suffice.

How old do you think those teens actually were? They couldn't ban legal adults from entering the park without supervision, so you would still end up with plenty of fresh out of high school 18 year olds in the park that are still perfectly capable of engaging in destructive behavior.



I don't know that such a fight necessarily has any real baring on the park and what they are doing or not doing. Heck, the Toontown incident at Disneyland wasn't that long ago and it seems like many people posting about what happened at Knott's have already forgotten it.

Have we forgotten about the drive by shooting last year? The crazed man climbing Supreme Scream? Or what about the Cinco De Mayo riot?

As long as Knott's promotes itself as the cheaper alternative, these types of issues will continue. The problems are systemic. Cheaper admission is always going to mean easier access. Allowing people to be dropped off right at the entrance, with no reservation means easier access. Lower admissions costs means less money for security training and more apathy amongst their employees.
 

BuzzedPotatoHead89

Well-Known Member
How old do you think those teens actually were? They couldn't ban legal adults from entering the park without supervision, so you would still end up with plenty of fresh out of high school 18 year olds in the park that are still perfectly capable of engaging in destructive behavior.
They really don’t appear to be much over 16 based on the videos I’ve seen circulating. Its all a guesstimate but ask anyone who frequents Knotts and thrill tell you it’s a common “drop off” location for minors. Combined with the youthful appearance of many of these groupings, I can only make an assumption this may be due to their lack of driver’s license.

I agree age limits aren’t a silver bullet (no pun intended). Strengthening security is key too, if not the most important.
 

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
Every year, fans complain about HHN crowds and ask Universal to place an age restriction (without a parent/guardian), last year was the first year where there were very few complaints about age groups.

Changes include increasing prices on alcoholic beverages and increasing visible security.

Fights will happen anywhere no matter the price (look at what happened at MK during the fireworks and the woman who suffered brain bleed). Visible security (whether PD or private security) will always reduce these types of events from happening.
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
Have we forgotten about the drive by shooting last year? The crazed man climbing Supreme Scream? Or what about the Cinco De Mayo riot?

As long as Knott's promotes itself as the cheaper alternative, these types of issues will continue. The problems are systemic. Cheaper admission is always going to mean easier access. Allowing people to be dropped off right at the entrance, with no reservation means easier access. Lower admissions costs means less money for security training and more apathy amongst their employees.
Look, if you are determined to be very upset about it, be my guest. I don't remember you being one of the ones getting very upset over the Toontown incident, so this seems maybe a bit...selective on your part. Maybe I'm misremembering, it's been awhile. But right now this doesn't seem all that different from all of those coded "well if we let the poors come the poors will cause problems" dialogues that have been happening forever and ever, usually with Six Flags but now apparently with Knott's too.

But are you really going to blame Knott's for one person clearly in need of help for deciding to climb their drop tower? Ideally they should have stopped the guy from getting to that point, but once said guy has already climbed past the point they can reach them, what are they supposed to do? Perhaps they tried and he stopped them. I don't know. Guy clearly wasn't in a rational state of mind, and there's only so much anyone can do when that happens.

Knott's entrance is right on a public road. Obviously the drive by shooting isn't ideal, but how would you have prevented such a situation? They are even more surrounded by suburbia than Disneyland is, and there is literally nowhere for them to move the park entrance that would entirely ensure that such a scenario would never happen again. There's nowhere they could put the entrance without a public road right there next to it. The only real way to do that would be to move the entrance entirely across the street, but that won't happen for lots of logistical reasons.

Disney is the only theme park company doing reservations, and I'd say it's causing them more harm and headaches (particularly in terms of guest feedback and experience) than good, so I commend Knott's for not offering reservations. No one wants reservations because they don't even do a particularly good job at dealing with the problems they purport to solve and create new problems to boot. There's a reason that no-one, pre-covid, did reservations. There's also a reason that no one except Disney is still doing reservations.

Can you prove that lower admission costs inherently result in weaker employee training and morale? Because that seems like a stretch. It's not like Disneyland employees are paid significantly more than Knott's workers are just because the admission price is significantly more expensive.

No park in the world is entirely free of the possibility of such incidents happening. It's not ideal, but that's life. Sometimes young people are bound and determined to make stupid decisions, and they decide to do it in a public place. It happens, and increasingly it happens everywhere, even in "good" places. So while the park probably could beef up its security a little bit, I think a lot of the generalizations about Knott's in this thread have less basis in fact than in some people's need to pile on the park that lets more poors in down the street from everyone's golden child, which also had a bad incident not that long ago that we've since moved on from. Just doesn't seem like we're going on rational fact and more on emotional tangents is all.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Look, if you are determined to be very upset about it, be my guest.

I'm not. I have no plans to go to Knott's anytime soon. This is more of a "it is what it is" type of posting.

There are real-world consequences to being the alternative with cheap admission and no reservations required. Incidents like what just happened (and the long history they have of other security incidents) go along with that.

I also don't think anything will ever really change at Knott's. They have made their identify, their raison d'etre, to be the cheaper alternative to Disneyland, and as such, they have to keep costs down. If they were actually serious about taking care of the park and hiring and training more security personnel, it could throw their whole business model into disarray. Next thing you know, they just end up selling the land to some housing developer.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Some people seem to get into a cheerleader mode for a favorite company. All competitors are evil and inferior. This kind of thinking is childish. The company that is being cheerleaded for could care less or doesn't even know the cheerleader exist.

It is like fights like
Apple vs Microsoft
Atari vs Intellivison
Star Wars vs Star Trek
Disney vs Universal Studios.
Disney vs Rest of theme park industry

Some people can't get out of that grade school mentality.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Some people seem to get into a cheerleader mode for a favorite company. All competitors are evil and inferior. This kind of thinking is childish. The company that is being cheerleaded for could care less or doesn't even know the cheerleader exist.

It is like fights like
Apple vs Microsoft
Atari vs Intellivison
Star Wars vs Star Trek
Disney vs Universal Studios.
Disney vs Rest of theme park industry

Some people can't get out of that grade school mentality.
I wouldn't call it childish or even grade school mentality, its human nature. We cheer for things we consider our "favorites" and want them to "win" in whatever is the contest. Its called being part of a fandom.

Its the exact same thing as cheering on a professional sports team, they don't care about you other than the money you spend on them, yet a majority of humans on this planet cheer them on anyways.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
Wow what a joke. Since Disneyland has been so negative lately I've been wanting to visit Knotts, but since that crazy guy climbed the tower, the gang shooting took place, and now this major brawl happened - ain't no way I'm taking my baby and wife anytime soon.

The timing couldn’t be worse for Knotts either, with our Keys expiring we were looking at Knotts as an alternative but this has instantly taken Knotts off our ”we could spend a day there instead” list.

We‘ll be spending less time in CA (and big cities in general) as a result of all the recent crime and chaos. Yellowstone, national parks, Route 66, the “flyover states”, etc are all looking very appealing as travel alternatives to DL right now. Nowhere is immune but big cities are a bit nuts right now, even moderately sized Vegas has gotten crazier than normal lately with smash and grabs, shootings, fear stampedes, etc.
 

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