Air Circulation on the Cruise Ships

[NormC]

and considering the fact that most home A/Cs and car A/Cs do NOT bring fresh air (unless to tell them too), I'm hoping this is NOT the case on a cruise ship.
...I've had no problems flying, and sleep quite well sitting up, however a sealed car running A/C only in recirculate mode filled with 4-6 people driving 300 miles between stops (5 hours), also faces low O2/high CO2 level that could threaten the thought capacity and consciousness of the driver. So if you're feeling sleepy, open the window.
...

Actually car A/Cs DO bring in outside air unless you tell them not to by turning on the recirculate or MAX modes. This mode is intended to rapidly cool the car that may have been sitting in a sunny parking lot. It is not intended to be used for a 300 mile ride for exactly the reasons you mention.

 

[JeffH]

I guess cars are different...
On my Elantra, you need to turn one off Max, then hit the middle of the middle to enable outside air. On older models you had to move a big slide from one side to the other to enable outside air.
On models without any filtering (like most are without) enabling outside air usually exposes you to the exhaust from the car in front of you (of which CO is a much worse problem than lack of O2, and because of that I would assume is why manufacturers require you to choose outside air if you want it.). In each of my 11+ cars, you had to select out-side air.
----
and based on their responses I've decided to ignore GMRO and Kramerica, then I don't have to waste my time reading through their posts in future topics.

 

[JeffH]

I would think on the cruise they would have no reason to recirculate air like airplanes do.

Except for the fact that it is much easier (read: cheaper) to simply re-cool (using chilled water) the room air then return it to the room. Ideally they should have vents on each level, one set from the outside delivering 100% fresh air to each room and bathroom, and another set pulling the air outside from each room.
It's actually quite scary (like CO poisoning)...
Workers have died because of oxygen deficiency. Oxygen deficiency is a lack of oxygen in the air we breathe. Normal air has about 20.9% oxygen. The Occupational Health and Safety Regulation defines oxygen deficiency as air with less than 19.5% oxygen by volume.
Confined spaces and enclosed spaces both might have air without enough oxygen.
There are no warning properties: you can't smell, taste, or see any difference when air doesn't have enough oxygen. By the time you feel faint or dizzy, you may not have enough energy or alertness to escape. If the oxygen level falls below 20.9%, then there is something affecting the air and further investigation is required.
Working in an atmosphere with oxygen levels less than 17% can produce symptoms that might prevent you from escaping. If oxygen levels are lower than 10%, taking just one breath might make you unconscious almost immediately.
At 16% breathing and heartbeat rates increase (gee, that seems like a warning sign to me???)
At 14% fatigue, emotional upset, impaired judgment and coordination (Sleepy, Grumpy, Dopey and a little Goofy)
At 12% worse above w/impaired respiration possibly causing heart damage, nausea and vomiting (that happens a lot on cruise ships)
At 10% Nausea, vomiting, loss of movement, unconsciousness, convulsions, death, and international charges on your cell-phone bill.
Maybe they should plant some bushes in each room?

 

[JeffH]

This site is nothing compared to others when it comes to oversensitive people.

I used to frequent a couple of other sites, mainly Intercot, but they were so fraught with bashers-haters I left for WDWmagic, who, YES, if mainly filled with wonderful Disney folk (one of which I recently went on a cruise with...a complete stranger). The bashers on Intercot were SO bad that they actually had a separate site where they continued bashing those they bashed on Intercot behind their backs. They didn't like me much, since I frequent responded to their bashing/hating with inarguable facts (things they rarely used)...One infant even went into my profile and noticed that I enjoy watching professional wrestling and made fun of me about that as his response to my inarguable facts.

 

[Phonedave]

I guess cars are different...
On my Elantra, you need to turn one off Max, then hit the middle of the middle to enable outside air. On older models you had to move a big slide from one side to the other to enable outside air.
On models without any filtering (like most are without) enabling outside air usually exposes you to the exhaust from the car in front of you (of which CO is a much worse problem than lack of O2, and because of that I would assume is why manufacturers require you to choose outside air if you want it.). In each of my 11+ cars, you had to select out-side air.
----
and based on their responses I've decided to ignore GMRO and Kramerica, then I don't have to waste my time reading through their posts in future topics.

Every car that I have had (that I had the manual for) states in the manual to keep the AC in "Fresh" or "outside" unless maximum cooling is needed. Most of the time you don't pick up the exhaust from cars in front of you either, are intakes are placed so as to minimize that.

Anyway ....

Here is a quote from a news article about the Carnival ship with the engine problems

Having overseeing the installation of clean air systems on two Norwegian cruise ships, Tony Abate, vice president of operations at AtmosAir Solutions, says that health risks abound for those forced to remain in the ship’s hot, fetid inner corridors.
"The biggest concern for these passengers is that they've been trapped inside for so long,” Abate told the Daily News. “The inside of a cruise ship is a space that's designed to have an air ventilation system to dilute contaminants. That's been knocked out."


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/carnival-triumph-air-quality-health-hazard-expert-article-1.1263618#ixzz2KuD85WVQ​

Notice what he said about diluting contaminants. That says to me - fresh air. Really though, think about it. An inside stateroom on lower decks would have NO fresh air without a circulation system. Think how badly that would stink after a few cruises. It is not something that they can "cheap out" on when building a ship. You need that circulation system. Of course they have to balance it, and that may be an issue, but I can't imagine no fresh air flow at all.

Oh, and the O2 would be denser on an Alaskan cruise

-dave

 

[Master Yoda]

Except for the fact that it is much easier (read: cheaper) to simply re-cool (using chilled water) the room air then return it to the room. Ideally they should have vents on each level, one set from the outside delivering 100% fresh air to each room and bathroom, and another set pulling the air outside from each room.
It's actually quite scary (like CO poisoning)...
Workers have died because of oxygen deficiency. Oxygen deficiency is a lack of oxygen in the air we breathe. Normal air has about 20.9% oxygen. The Occupational Health and Safety Regulation defines oxygen deficiency as air with less than 19.5% oxygen by volume.
Confined spaces and enclosed spaces both might have air without enough oxygen.
There are no warning properties: you can't smell, taste, or see any difference when air doesn't have enough oxygen. By the time you feel faint or dizzy, you may not have enough energy or alertness to escape. If the oxygen level falls below 20.9%, then there is something affecting the air and further investigation is required.
Working in an atmosphere with oxygen levels less than 17% can produce symptoms that might prevent you from escaping. If oxygen levels are lower than 10%, taking just one breath might make you unconscious almost immediately.
At 16% breathing and heartbeat rates increase (gee, that seems like a warning sign to me???)
At 14% fatigue, emotional upset, impaired judgment and coordination (Sleepy, Grumpy, Dopey and a little Goofy)
At 12% worse above w/impaired respiration possibly causing heart damage, nausea and vomiting (that happens a lot on cruise ships)
At 10% Nausea, vomiting, loss of movement, unconsciousness, convulsions, death, and international charges on your cell-phone bill.
Maybe they should plant some bushes in each room?

Do you by chance have any links to studies that show what the actual O2 content is in cars, houses, etc is? If those levels are around 19%-20% then you will know that the effect might be more psychosomatic vs physical. I have been searching and keep coming up empty.

 

[JeffH]

Checking back, my current car (Elantra), previous 3 cars (all Saturn Ions) owners manuals don't specify/recommend using outside air, they just provide the options, HOWEVER, the Chrysler cars before that (P.T.Cruiser and Neon...and I assume the 4 I drove before that) specifically recommend "Only use the recirculate
mode to temporarily block out any outside odors, smoke, or dust and to cool the interior rapidly upon initial start up in very hot or humid weather."
but who reads the manual anyway?
You just need to be aware of the fact that your car is sealed an only has about perhaps 4-5 hours of good air in it before the increased CO2 levels killed you (before the lack of O2 does). (thenakedscientists.com)

 

[Master Yoda]

Checking back, my current car (Elantra), previous 3 cars (all Saturn Ions) owners manuals don't specify/recommend using outside air, they just provide the options, HOWEVER, the Chrysler cars before that (P.T.Cruiser and Neon...and I assume the 4 I drove before that) specifically recommend "Only use the recirculate
mode to temporarily block out any outside odors, smoke, or dust and to cool the interior rapidly upon initial start up in very hot or humid weather."
but who reads the manual anyway?
You just need to be aware of the fact that your car is sealed an only has about perhaps 4-5 hours of good air in it before the increased CO2 levels killed you (before the lack of O2 does). (thenakedscientists.com)

Providing that the car is 100% air tight. I doubt there is a single car on the planet that could claim that.

 

[MaryJaneP]

This is a good question and I look forward to seeing an actual disney cruise ship specific answer. I do not know if cabins are any more "tight" than cars are. Car interiors have leaks from the outside in many areas, even when the A/C is on recirculate. I am reminded of this every time I get that lovely skunk aroma wafting into my otherwise "sealed" car. Planes, submarines, and spacecraft are the only vehicles I am familiar with that entirely exclude the surrounding environment. All/most others have some "intermingling". I agree with the prior post that the circumstances (smells, humidity, etc) dictate that the interior and lower levels must have SOME air exchange. I think the OP was asking "how much" air exchange occurs.

 

[GenerationX]

I've had a CPAP for four years. It took me a week or two to get used to it, but since then it has been abundantly clear I sleep better with it. I feel like I "power sleep" now, because I sleep fewer hours and feel more refreshed when I wake up. While I know a CPAP does not address your primary O2 question, it may reduce your overall anxiety simply because you'll likely sleep better. I took mine on the Fantasy in November, and it worked just as well as at home.

 

[Uncle Lupe]

Do what you have to do to make yourself comfortable. If your concerns are real or imaginary I am not qualified to tell you.

Sleeping with the veranda door open on a cruise sounds like a nice way to sleep. But if you sleepwalk and fall over the rail the low O2 levels would become less of a concern.

 

[216bruce]

Instead of going through Forum hell, call DCL and ask them.

 

[JeffH]

Instead of going through Forum hell, call DCL and ask them.

Most phone service operators barely know how to answer the phone let alone answer questions about the ventilation system on a cruise liner. And emails frequently don't get answered, or the answer you get rarely has anything to do with your question. I would honestly trust the good people on this site, than any goof on the phone.

 

[DisneyJoe]

Most phone service operators barely know how to answer the phone let alone answer questions about the ventilation system on a cruise liner. And emails frequently don't get answered, or the answer you get rarely has anything to do with your question. I would honestly trust the good people on this site, than any goof on the phone.

They have reference manuals to check. Yes, any "goof" can answer the phone, but most have management and educational teams that provide them with materials so that they can do their job. The members of this forum don't even have access to those reference guides, unless you happen to find one that is involved in the cruise or ventilation industry.

You may be surprised when you call, then again they may prove you right. Until you call, you won't know. You know what happens when you assume, right?

 

[Phonedave]

Checking back, my current car (Elantra), previous 3 cars (all Saturn Ions) owners manuals don't specify/recommend using outside air, they just provide the options, HOWEVER, the Chrysler cars before that (P.T.Cruiser and Neon...and I assume the 4 I drove before that) specifically recommend "Only use the recirculate
mode to temporarily block out any outside odors, smoke, or dust and to cool the interior rapidly upon initial start up in very hot or humid weather."
but who reads the manual anyway?
You just need to be aware of the fact that your car is sealed an only has about perhaps 4-5 hours of good air in it before the increased CO2 levels killed you (before the lack of O2 does). (thenakedscientists.com)

Engineers That's who.

We like to pick out the errors.

-dave

 

[jaklgreen]

I never really thought about it but I would assume that it is like most heating/air units that there is a "fan" setting that stays on blowing air into the room. I can pretty much guarantee that there will be no shortage of air in the rooms, I can not imagine having people pass out from lack of oxygen is good for business. But if your problem is more anxiety then speak with your doctor about some anti anxiety meds or as I call them "happy pills". We all can use some happy pills at one point or another.

 

[MaryJaneP]

Meds may solve the anxiety issue, but I think the numbers would still be helpful and interesting. I feel the designers and/or builders must have done the math at some point. I also feel certain the insurers would not insure an ship that did not take care of passenger environments appropriately. Maybe not a simple question, but a definitive answer and the numbers to back it up surely exist. What is the CFM exchange rate in an interior room?