bearboysnc
Well-Known Member
Yes. They were added after the park was opened.
They were built with each new area. Most go from the berm to somewhere in the park.
Most of New Orleans. Critter Country. Parts of tomorrowland.
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A Question About Whats In The Lake??
- Thread starter westie
- Start date
Yes. They were added after the park was opened.
They were built with each new area. Most go from the berm to somewhere in the park.
Most of New Orleans. Critter Country. Parts of tomorrowland.
I'm bowing out of this one. I'm no expert on water table and sink holes but, in ca. we do get earthquakes strong enough to topple anything, DL not excluded. And leave poor old Rob alone, he is a plethora of knowledge and wit and if he chooses to debate, well, thats his constitutional right. Do we need a sideboard?
Worldphile
New Member
If UoE really does have a sub-basement (not sure why it would need a basement in the first place, but whatever) then I have no doubts that there is a pump down there pumping water out.
It's WDW. The whole place is/was a swamp. You dig a hole; it's gonna fill with water. Hence, the pump.
I don't believe that the water is holding the building up or providing any structural support. Water isn't a terribly common building material.
It's WDW. The whole place is/was a swamp. You dig a hole; it's gonna fill with water. Hence, the pump.
I don't believe that the water is holding the building up or providing any structural support. Water isn't a terribly common building material.
RobFL
Account Suspended
The basement of UoE is for the turntables (which really are only like 4 ft deep) and then the hydrolic doors. Don't forget, there are 2 shows with vehicles insiode the building, and to soundproof large doors which lower into the ground seperate the areas.
Beneath them, if you go to the lower level, you'll open a hatch. It's similar to the one that opens up to the roof. It goes down into the subbasement, which is entirely filled with water, which is contantly churning in a murky rapids which is because of the water being pumped in.
I really don't care who is an architect or atleast claiming to be one.. but sink holes function as follows: Water erodes limestone, the water remains and the ground above remains above, even without the limestone for support. If the water recceds, the equilibrium is lost and the area collapses.
That is how a sinkhole works and forms.
-Rob
Beneath them, if you go to the lower level, you'll open a hatch. It's similar to the one that opens up to the roof. It goes down into the subbasement, which is entirely filled with water, which is contantly churning in a murky rapids which is because of the water being pumped in.
I really don't care who is an architect or atleast claiming to be one.. but sink holes function as follows: Water erodes limestone, the water remains and the ground above remains above, even without the limestone for support. If the water recceds, the equilibrium is lost and the area collapses.
That is how a sinkhole works and forms.
-Rob
RobFL
Account Suspended
A quick science experiment....
Go fill a plastic bag with water. The water represents water, and the bag represents other types of stronger stone than limestone that does not erode and thuse give a sinkhole's cavern its shape.
Squish the baggie.
Repeat process with only air in the baggie.
Notice difference.
-Rob
Go fill a plastic bag with water. The water represents water, and the bag represents other types of stronger stone than limestone that does not erode and thuse give a sinkhole's cavern its shape.
Squish the baggie.
Repeat process with only air in the baggie.
Notice difference.
-Rob
bearboysnc
Well-Known Member
Is this a ziplock plastic bag? or a sandwich plastic bag.
Is the bag sealed or open.
Shouldn't this thread be moved to physics chat?
Is the bag sealed or open.
Shouldn't this thread be moved to physics chat?
BalooChicago
Well-Known Member
Ok, the thought that the walls would collapse if the water were removed is ludicrous. If there was an eminant collapse something would have been done long ago. Are the Utlilidoors important to the operation of MK? Ok, so WHY would Disney let anything put them at risk, much less have people working in a room right below the pool. It may be HARD to get rid of the ride, but not impossible. I may have only been on construction sites for the last 3 years since graduating from architecture school, but I am sure that just about any construction firm that would work for the mouse has worked with more serious issues than that pool. Yeah, they may have to relocate what is immediately below the pool for a time, but I doubt it would be impossible.
RobFL
Account Suspended
A thought...
During the time when WDW built the lagoon, seawalls were also being built in Florida.
Seawalls have proven ineffective though because wave action eroded underneath the structure and thus caused its collapse.
What was a sound scientific and engineering idea at one time is seen as severely flawed later.
-Rob
During the time when WDW built the lagoon, seawalls were also being built in Florida.
Seawalls have proven ineffective though because wave action eroded underneath the structure and thus caused its collapse.
What was a sound scientific and engineering idea at one time is seen as severely flawed later.
-Rob
disneyisbest
New Member
I can see that. I would definitely rather see it like it is now with the water and all then just a big nothing.
RobFL
Account Suspended
Furthermore...
It is my understanding that it is not the structure of the lagoon which is in question, but rather the surrounding area. The lagoon would remain standing, but erosion has caused the water of the lagoon and the surrounding watertable to become one, if you will. If you take the water out of the lagoon, I was told the sidewalk under fantasyland leading to the Teacups is what would (possibly, theorhetically) collapse because of a sinkhole, not the lagoon itself.
-Rob
It is my understanding that it is not the structure of the lagoon which is in question, but rather the surrounding area. The lagoon would remain standing, but erosion has caused the water of the lagoon and the surrounding watertable to become one, if you will. If you take the water out of the lagoon, I was told the sidewalk under fantasyland leading to the Teacups is what would (possibly, theorhetically) collapse because of a sinkhole, not the lagoon itself.
-Rob
McArcDes
New Member
Rob,
One little thing you forgot mention. The utilidors are at gound level and Fantasy land is about fourteen feet above that. Disney built the whole park above ground to avoid just what you are talking about.
Essentially the 20K Lagoon is a big swimming pool made of reinforced concrete. This is what holds up the walls of the lagoon and make up the bottom of the lagoon / ceiling of the utilidors. I would not doubt that there are leaks in the lagoon and water makes its way into spaces below the lagoon. But as for the sinkhole it would acutally have to be under the utilidors because if I remember correctly most of the area under Fantasy land is the main entrance to the MK utilidors and a great many support spaces like the zoo etc. Leaves very little space for a sinkhole to develope with all those concrete walls around.
And on anohter note. With your little plastic bag and water experiment....Is it the water holding up the plastic bag or the flat bottom of the bag its self? Answer is...the bag. Water in its liquid state must always be contained because if it is not then it runs all over the place.
Must be nice to "know" every thing. I know what I know from experience. Experience I started getting before you were born I might add. So my advice to you is if you are interested in Themed attrraction design.....PLEASE take some classes in construction before you ever get a job designing anything. I dont want my familiy getting hurt on one of your rides that tries to use structural water to hold up the ride building.
One little thing you forgot mention. The utilidors are at gound level and Fantasy land is about fourteen feet above that. Disney built the whole park above ground to avoid just what you are talking about.
Essentially the 20K Lagoon is a big swimming pool made of reinforced concrete. This is what holds up the walls of the lagoon and make up the bottom of the lagoon / ceiling of the utilidors. I would not doubt that there are leaks in the lagoon and water makes its way into spaces below the lagoon. But as for the sinkhole it would acutally have to be under the utilidors because if I remember correctly most of the area under Fantasy land is the main entrance to the MK utilidors and a great many support spaces like the zoo etc. Leaves very little space for a sinkhole to develope with all those concrete walls around.
And on anohter note. With your little plastic bag and water experiment....Is it the water holding up the plastic bag or the flat bottom of the bag its self? Answer is...the bag. Water in its liquid state must always be contained because if it is not then it runs all over the place.
Must be nice to "know" every thing. I know what I know from experience. Experience I started getting before you were born I might add. So my advice to you is if you are interested in Themed attrraction design.....PLEASE take some classes in construction before you ever get a job designing anything. I dont want my familiy getting hurt on one of your rides that tries to use structural water to hold up the ride building.
disneyisbest
New Member
Sorry Rob, McArcDes explanation sounds better than yours to me. Are you sure you are fully researched in this?
RobFL
Account Suspended
You're still denying how a sinkhole forms and functions. Have you read up on that?
The water is held in the bottom of the bag the same way a sinkholes cavern is kept full by the water table's level. It can't and wont go down during that period, but if it does receed... poof.. no more land above the sinkhole.
Funny, McArc.. why would a Disney imagineer come to a Disney fansite? Seems like odd behavior to me.. and then on top of it, I've never seen or heard of you on any of the professional design boards. Do you just not know how to get to those....?
Seriously dude.. you can beleive me or not.. try reading about sinkholes before you spout BS here. The ground water can have "pockets" from oh.. i dunno.. years of errossive effects from a certain man made lake attaction.
Anyways, you're wrong and I personally could careless. I actually left this thread to prevent further hardshipp.. but screw it. I bet you were head of the secretarial department if anything at WDI.
-Rob
disneyisbest
New Member
In this corner from Tampa .....RobFl. And in this corner from south of Boston......McArcDes. Alright guys keep the gloves up and lets have a good clean fight.
One summer I worked at a golf course. When we drained the pond that was the driving range the muddy sides came down along with the water level and decreased the depth of the pond significantly. Enough to have it dredged. Mud and concrete vary in consistency considerably but, I'm just a laymen trying to figure out why I aint got a submarine ride at either WDW or DL. Rob?