A plea for creativity! :)

Madison

New Member
Original Poster
I don't know where I'm going with this except to say that I've wanted to write for a while now about something intangible that, even now, I can't quite define.

Why is there such a dearth of creative, original ideas created by people that claim to have such passion for the work of folks like those at WDI? I understand that a lot of people who're participating here are just kids, really, but it's still really disappointing that the unlimited imaginations of kids are so irrevocably limited by practicality and familiarity. It seems their creative process is informed by a paper doll mentality that does little more than take existing parts created by other people and rearrange them.

Is this art imitating life? The Walt Disney Company has, in some ways, begun to do exactly the same thing that we see here, hasn't it? They've spent money and time developing a brand or an attraction like Pirates or The Haunted Mansion and so it's fiscally wise and responsible and safe to reproduce those attractions for new markets. Where the first generations of Imagineers were creating an industry, today they seem satisfied to merely participate rather innovate. Perhaps the industry has reached that part of its lifecyle. After all, it's not uncommon that the early days of technology or product or industry will produce its most varied output. With time, the good percolates to the top, the rest disappear and the process of refining things begins. Is there a place anymore for original stories in the theme parks? The early attractions (and the most beloved) are often based not on a single story, but on a genre or archetype. What remains untapped by the industry that isn't dependent on box office receipts or DVD sales?

I want to see more original content from folks instead of the same old, tired copy and paste routine that borders on creative plagiarism. Hell, I'd even settle for a little bit of artwork that'll make me understand why *your* version of Tomorrowland is so much more interesting than all the rest. Does this exist anywhere on the web?

I know that it's not easy to develop an entirely original concept; and that it's even more challenging if we take the time to assess its good and bad characteristics and work to improve them. I understand that nearly nobody at all will have the skill, time or determination to complete the design for a whole attraction beyond the simple "blue sky" phase, but it'd sure be nice to challenge ourselves and develop and grow in areas we don't have much experience or success in.
 

Dr.Seeker

Member
I know what you mean, its a little disheartening to see somebody's "own" version of disneyland, with only the smallest tweaks from the original.

I always enjoy reading peoples' brand new ideas, especially when its backed up with concept art.
 

terp79

Member
Agreed

I've been wanting to reply to this thread since you posted but I've held back. I know what you mean and I agree with what you're saying 100%. I've now realized why when I was out at WDI Tony Baxter raised a brow and laughed when I told him I come to these boards to try to meet other hopeful Imagineers. To be honest in the last 3 years I have only met one other guy who is serious about his dreams and ideas. I do agree that it's hard for this new generation to focus on only one idea and "plus" it until it's good and have the ambition to actually take it beyond simple words. After I did the imaginations contest that's all I want to do. Stick with one idea and focus on it till it's good and done and done right. Granted I have tons of ideas and I could simply just cut copy and paste my ideas with the existing parks but what fun is that. I do admit I love to draw inspiration from Disney films. I'm not at the point where I could come up with something totally 100% new! I do feel that the attractions I want to design based on existing property are fun in a kitsch value sort of way and play to some sort of disney cult classic following. I've already planned on going back to college to get my masters and have my dissertation focus around my passion for WDI. Can you imagin spending 3 years on one idea? I'm so excited, imagin how flushed out the final project will be. Anyway I just wanted to tell you I understand where you're coming from. It's amazing how I use to love coming to the Imagineering section, now i think it's a total waste of time.
 

Dr.Seeker

Member
It's amazing how I use to love coming to the Imagineering section, now i think it's a total waste of time.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I know how you must feel when there's a hundred "My Own Disneyland" or "If I could improve wdw" project threads, but some really creative ideas have come out in this board. I put a lot of effort into my "Escape Nomanisan" project, (http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=56882&highlight=nomanisan)and don't think it was a waste of time.
 

terp79

Member
Not a personal attack

Yes, with all the "my own Disney/park of my dreams" and "if you could change, improve, transport one thing. . ." I find this forum a waste of time. I don't gain anything from it. I hope to come here and read about other Imagineer wannabes struggling over concept design for their own attraction that they've been working on for 3 months now, or some questions about story treatments and service standards. Maybe a thread on the re-imagineering blog or Jim Hill, maybe some sort of commentary on what one would do to turn around the struggle at WDI. I need some forward thinkers here. Granted there have been people on here, you included that I see great potential. Please don't take it as a personal attack. For about the last 5 weeks or so the posts and threads have been the same, tired and expired. I don't think these threads even belong in the imagineering section of this site.
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry you feel that way. I know how you must feel when there's a hundred "My Own Disneyland" or "If I could improve wdw" project threads, but some really creative ideas have come out in this board. I put a lot of effort into my "Escape Nomanisan" project, (http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=56882&highlight=nomanisan)and don't think it was a waste of time.

And how about my "Goofy" project? Here's the url: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=109925. That doesn't seem like a waste of time.
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
Yes, with all the "my own Disney/park of my dreams" and "if you could change, improve, transport one thing. . ." I find this forum a waste of time. I don't gain anything from it. I hope to come here and read about other Imagineer wannabes struggling over concept design for their own attraction that they've been working on for 3 months now, or some questions about story treatments and service standards. Maybe a thread on the re-imagineering blog or Jim Hill, maybe some sort of commentary on what one would do to turn around the struggle at WDI. I need some forward thinkers here. Granted there have been people on here, you included that I see great potential. Please don't take it as a personal attack. For about the last 5 weeks or so the posts and threads have been the same, tired and expired. I don't think these threads even belong in the imagineering section of this site.

What do you mean, they don't belong here? Where else can they go?!? Why, this is almost oppression and discrimination!
 

Madison

New Member
Original Poster
What do you mean, they don't belong here? Where else can they go?!? Why, this is almost oppression and discrimination!

If the worst you know of oppression and discrimination is that someone doesn't like what you're doing on the internet, consider yourself to be very fortunate.

I think there're valuable lessons to be learned in master planning that may be addressed by the typical efforts to recreate Disneyland, but most people don't seem to be addressing those topics at all.

In fact, I'm a master planning sort of gal. I can't tell (or sell) a story to save my life and I'm not a fantastic artist. I am pretty good (and have a lot of experience) making things work together as efficiently as possible. I love the intersection of design and social issues that master planning addresses, but it's certainly more difficult to master plan for fun than it is to, say, write fiction. Fiction works because it's limited by words and imagination -- while master planning needs restrictions to be challenging.

Anyway, I'm going to eat my own words and start a new thread in a few minutes here. I've got ugly "art" with only vaguely associated concepts that maybe interesting for some folks to see.
 

terp79

Member
once again. . .

mharrington,
I feel that these "my own disney" type of blogs hardly relate to anything at WDI. They are too vague and broad, and don't even start on discrimination! Your talking to an openly gay male that grew up in corn bread indiana in a town with one stop light and got made fun of every day for 7 years straight.

Anyway, I mean we all have dreams of being Tony Baxter but in all reality most Imagineers don't start off by designing entire parks. I do understand the point of said threads: bringing back retired attractions, including attractions only found at other Disney Parks and some of your own designs thrown in for fun. It's almost like a game, "my park is better because I put this in. . .etc. I'm simply stating that these sorts of threads are large fantasy filled pipe dreams which are great to have but why not ellaborate on your own designs or focus in on one thing? You people have such interesting ideas but never explore them enough. Maybe it's a lack of how to go about explaining your ride, or the steps in developing an attraction. I mean there's no right or wrong way to go about it and seeing how there's no classes on how to be an imagineer, I guess the blue skys the limit here. I just agree with madison about the creativity. We have the verbal down as well as the ideas/spark but where are the visuals to back up these ideas?

I know that the demographic that comes here, come here for fun, but aren't any of you serious? Do any of you actually want to be Imagineers one day? Am I the only one that dreams that big? I don't believe so. Granted I have always wanted to be an imagineer since I was 12. It wasn't till I was 21 did I really start using college art assignments to further my exploration into my dream. I guess my wish is that I would of had someone out there at an earlier age asking where are the drawing or paintings to back up my ideas.
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
mharrington,
I feel that these "my own disney" type of blogs hardly relate to anything at WDI. They are too vague and broad, and don't even start on discrimination! Your talking to an openly gay male that grew up in corn bread indiana in a town with one stop light and got made fun of every day for 7 years straight.

I'm sorry! I didn't mean to insult you! Please forgive me.

Maybe it's a lack of how to go about explaining your ride, or the steps in developing an attraction. I mean there's no right or wrong way to go about it and seeing how there's no classes on how to be an imagineer, I guess the blue skys the limit here. I just agree with madison about the creativity. We have the verbal down as well as the ideas/spark but where are the visuals to back up these ideas?

Are you saying that unless we have visuals, there's no way they will ever be good enough? I mean, some of us don't know how to do visuals. Mind you, I'm a great artist and I even wrote out an overhead view of the track for my Goofy ride, but when I tried to take a picture of it with my digital camera to upload it for all to see, it came out too blurry. What else should I do, use a scanner? That's a lot of trouble, you know. Besides, you've just inspired me. As soon as I'm finished with some of my ideas here, I may draw pictures to put them up, but how can I put them up online practically? The digital camera picture came out too blurry, what is another alternative?

I know that the demographic that comes here, come here for fun, but aren't any of you serious? Do any of you actually want to be Imagineers one day? Am I the only one that dreams that big? I don't believe so. Granted I have always wanted to be an imagineer since I was 12. It wasn't till I was 21 did I really start using college art assignments to further my exploration into my dream. I guess my wish is that I would of had someone out there at an earlier age asking where are the drawing or paintings to back up my ideas.

Yes, as a matter of fact, I WOULD like to be an Imagineer. I got a whole boatload of ideas to unload on those guys there and not just for brand-new parks, but for attractions in the parks that do exist.
 

terp79

Member
more. . .

mharrington:
First of all you didn't insult me. I was simply pointing out that both of our definitions of discrimination are different. Whereas you thought I was being harsh, I was not. I'm sorry that you read it that way. I'm trying to help.

You don't need to always do visuals to support your idea on here but in the real world if you do indeed want to be an imagineer you have to be able to do a lot. Most Imagineers are multi talented. There is a writing department at WDI but it's tres hard to get into. I'm trying to make you understand that you can have all the verbal (text) in the world and it won't sell your idea unless you have visual. Do none of you remember that when Roy Disney was going out to NY to sell the idea of Disneyland to the financers Walt knew that his dream would of never been built if the money men couldn't actually see what the money was going for. That's when Walt had Herb draw up the first concept sketch of Disneyland over that weekend. That's classic WED/WDI history. That shows how powerful a picture is.

As for you issues with your digital camera: do you have a tripod? That will help with your blurriness. Also most cameras have a button that looks like a tulip, make sure you have that function activated, it allows for closeups reducing fuzziness. If you need any help. . .feel free to ask.
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
mharrington:
First of all you didn't insult me. I was simply pointing out that both of our definitions of discrimination are different. Whereas you thought I was being harsh, I was not. I'm sorry that you read it that way. I'm trying to help.

You don't need to always do visuals to support your idea on here but in the real world if you do indeed want to be an imagineer you have to be able to do a lot. Most Imagineers are multi talented. There is a writing department at WDI but it's tres hard to get into. I'm trying to make you understand that you can have all the verbal (text) in the world and it won't sell your idea unless you have visual. Do none of you remember that when Roy Disney was going out to NY to sell the idea of Disneyland to the financers Walt knew that his dream would of never been built if the money men couldn't actually see what the money was going for. That's when Walt had Herb draw up the first concept sketch of Disneyland over that weekend. That's classic WED/WDI history. That shows how powerful a picture is.

As for you issues with your digital camera: do you have a tripod? That will help with your blurriness. Also most cameras have a button that looks like a tulip, make sure you have that function activated, it allows for closeups reducing fuzziness. If you need any help. . .feel free to ask.

Well, I didn't know you weren't being harsh, it just sounded that way. Unfortunately, I have neither a tripod nor that tulip button you spoke of on my camera. Do you think you can think of something else I could try?
 

Dr.Seeker

Member
Many libraries have digital scanners which you could use, or maybe one of your friends has. Or you could recreate the drawing using your computer, and eliminate the need for a scanner.
 

terp79

Member
Do you have a scanner? Are you in school? My suggestion is either use a scanner at your school or possibly going to a public library and scan them in for free, most libraries now have scanners. Those are my only 2 suggestions.

What kinda camera do you have? Most digials now have a button (on most it's the tulip icon) that allows for tight close shots. Also are you using your flash on your camera? I know some turn off the flash if they draw in pencil becuz the flash reflects the lead. My suggestion is either wait for a really sunny day and go out and take a picture using natural lighting: Lay your image down on the ground and stand above it and snap a pic or u could try to rig some sort of lighting system in your home using a bunch of lamps in order to create enough lighting.

I know that when I turn my flash off and try to take a pic it comes out blurry sometimes. The above 2 ways are the only way I got a cleaner images...then i usually take it into photoshop and clean it up....a lot! Hope that helps.
 

Madison

New Member
Original Poster
Are you saying that unless we have visuals, there's no way they will ever be good enough? I mean, some of us don't know how to do visuals. Mind you, I'm a great artist and I even wrote out an overhead view of the track for my Goofy ride, but when I tried to take a picture of it with my digital camera to upload it for all to see, it came out too blurry. What else should I do, use a scanner? That's a lot of trouble, you know. Besides, you've just inspired me. As soon as I'm finished with some of my ideas here, I may draw pictures to put them up, but how can I put them up online practically? The digital camera picture came out too blurry, what is another alternative?


I don't work in the industry, so I can't speak authoritatively about what it takes to get in and get hired, but my experience has been that creative positions require a portfolio demonstrating your work. Entertainment design is, first and foremost, a visual medium and so anyone trying to work in creative design positions ought to be able to communicate verbally and visually. Conversely, engineering positions are not based on the aesthetic quality of your past work, but on experience with varied systems, devices, or the like. I've rarely had to show examples of my work while interviewing for engineering jobs. Consider that many of the hand-picked, first generation of Imagineers were animators and perhaps you'll understand how important imagery can be to communicating an idea.

That said, if you've got work to show -- show it! Even if a picture is blurry, it'll help to illustrate your text better than nothing at all. Often, I'll sketch something on paper, photograph it and then use that as a background in Adobe Illustrator or Macromedia Freehand. Using software, I trace the sketch and add color.
 

abreadcrumboi

New Member
I don't know where I'm going with this except to say that I've wanted to write for a while now about something intangible that, even now, I can't quite define.

Why is there such a dearth of creative, original ideas created by people that claim to have such passion for the work of folks like those at WDI? I understand that a lot of people who're participating here are just kids, really, but it's still really disappointing that the unlimited imaginations of kids are so irrevocably limited by practicality and familiarity. It seems their creative process is informed by a paper doll mentality that does little more than take existing parts created by other people and rearrange them.

Is this art imitating life? The Walt Disney Company has, in some ways, begun to do exactly the same thing that we see here, hasn't it? They've spent money and time developing a brand or an attraction like Pirates or The Haunted Mansion and so it's fiscally wise and responsible and safe to reproduce those attractions for new markets. Where the first generations of Imagineers were creating an industry, today they seem satisfied to merely participate rather innovate. Perhaps the industry has reached that part of its lifecyle. After all, it's not uncommon that the early days of technology or product or industry will produce its most varied output. With time, the good percolates to the top, the rest disappear and the process of refining things begins. Is there a place anymore for original stories in the theme parks? The early attractions (and the most beloved) are often based not on a single story, but on a genre or archetype. What remains untapped by the industry that isn't dependent on box office receipts or DVD sales?

I want to see more original content from folks instead of the same old, tired copy and paste routine that borders on creative plagiarism. Hell, I'd even settle for a little bit of artwork that'll make me understand why *your* version of Tomorrowland is so much more interesting than all the rest. Does this exist anywhere on the web?

I know that it's not easy to develop an entirely original concept; and that it's even more challenging if we take the time to assess its good and bad characteristics and work to improve them. I understand that nearly nobody at all will have the skill, time or determination to complete the design for a whole attraction beyond the simple "blue sky" phase, but it'd sure be nice to challenge ourselves and develop and grow in areas we don't have much experience or success in.

ok i no i have just joined.. but i have been looking at the threads for about a year and a half now and i would always check out the imagineering threads.. but i noticed that most of them were the "my disney park" or something similar to that... anyway, because i always saw this i had no desire to join WDWmagic... but after i saw this thread it inspired me to join.. so i just wanted to say thanks for the inspiration
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom