A Pinocchio ride in Storybook Circus?

[Evilgidgit]

Are you saying that Mickey and the gang are not grounded in reality?

As in Mickey and friends can appear in just about any setting or period, whilst Pinocchio is more tied to his Italian setting.

 

[mharrington]

As in Mickey and friends can appear in just about any setting or period, whilst Pinocchio is more tied to his Italian setting.

So then Mickey and the gang are not tied to reality, right? If that's the case, why is there a Toontown in Disneyland? Or a Mickey ride at the Studios (soon to be at Disneyland)? Those seem tied to a single setting to me.

 

[Evilgidgit]

So then Mickey and the gang are not tied to reality, right? If that's the case, why is there a Toontown in Disneyland? Or a Mickey ride at the Studios (soon to be at Disneyland)? Those seem tied to a single setting to me.

Mickey and co. are less tied to a particular time or setting, and are more prone to being featured in different periods and locations, whilst as you said, Pinocchio is more closely tied to his Italian setting. Frankly, Storybook Circus could probably be its own land despite its small size as it is thematically different enough from New Fantasyland. Whether or not you decide to put a Pinocchio attraction of any kind within the circus is up to you and what is necessary to warrant its inclusion, what type of attraction it should be, and what story to tell.

 

[mharrington]

Mickey and co. are less tied to a particular time or setting, and are more prone to being featured in different periods and locations, whilst as you said, Pinocchio is more closely tied to his Italian setting. Frankly, Storybook Circus could probably be its own land despite its small size as it is thematically different enough from New Fantasyland. Whether or not you decide to put a Pinocchio attraction of any kind within the circus is up to you and what is necessary to warrant its inclusion, what type of attraction it should be, and what story to tell.

As I've said, I've never really felt that Pinocchio fit the Storybook Circus theme. I hadn't thought about the characterization, though. I was just focused on the setting, with mainly just the Disneyland ride to go off of. As I also said, it was planned to go in what would have been Dumbo's Circusland back in the 1970s, but it never happened, and I've tried to find some information about it might have fit, only to find nothing of meaningful.

Instead, since I didn't want to get rid of the Village Haus, but since also there's no room for a ride over in that area without creating some major headaches, I had tried to use part of the Speedway area to do something related to Monstro the Whale, since I figured the ocean was far enough away from the village to not be a problem.

I had kicked around various ideas from a spinning water ride with squirting guns to a small water thrill ride where you escape from Monstro, which would utilize a new boat technology from Mack Rides. But nothing seemed to work without creating a lot of logistical headaches.

But now, I think I may have finally found something: a variation of the spinning tugboat ride (from Zamperla) that has appeared in various parks throughout the world, often as part of a traveling fair:


The only problem is it's too small. I've thought of extending the track a bit beyond the simply U-shaped track and adding some bumps in between (like a Zamperla Disko (kinda) coaster), but I don't think it's ever been done before. Maybe it could be like the Surf Dog ride at Kings Island in Ohio:

 

[MickeyMouse10]

You'd have to definitely retheme Village Haus. If Pinocchio was getting his own land or even just an attraction somewhere else in the park.

As is, Rapunzel and Snow White fit the German appearance. But I'm sure they could easily change it to something else. Like what they did over in Disneyland, but hopefully with a bigger budget.

 

[mharrington]

You'd have to definitely retheme Village Haus. If Pinocchio was getting his own land or even just an attraction somewhere else in the park.

As is, Rapunzel and Snow White fit the German appearance. But I'm sure they could easily change it to something else. Like what they did over in Disneyland, but hopefully with a bigger budget.

Why would the Village Haus need a retheme if the ride isn't going near it? Does the ride have to connect to the restaurant?

 

[MickeyMouse10]

Why would the Village Haus need a retheme if the ride isn't going near it? Does the ride have to connect to the restaurant?

It would feel really strange to have a Pinocchio restaurant no where near the attraction or land. That would be like Disney keeping Pizza Planet in Grand Avenue even though they have Toy Story Land.

 

[mharrington]

It would feel really strange to have a Pinocchio restaurant no where near the attraction or land. That would be like Disney keeping Pizza Planet in Grand Avenue even though they have Toy Story Land.

That's not true. There are many examples of matching things that are nowhere near each other. For example, Alien Pizza Planet in Disneyland's Tomorrowland is nowhere near the Buzz Lightyear ride, nor is Star Tours (either in Disneyland or the Studios) anywhere near Galaxy's Edge.

While on the subject of Buzz Lightyear, you would think they would put the Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story Land and not Tomorrowland, but they didn't. Several resorts have a Buzz Lightyear ride and a Toy Story Land, sometimes in the same park, and yet they are nowhere near close to each other. And then there's the Peter Pan flight simulator deal being added to Tokyo DisneySea, even though the Peter Pan ride in Tokyo Disneyland is not going anywhere, as far as I know.

Speaking of, Disneyland once had and Disneyland Paris still does have Captain Hook's pirate ship and Skull Rock as explorable places, but they were/are nowhere near the Peter Pan ride in either park.

And let's not forget the Little Mermaid stage/puppet show at the Studios, even though there is a dark ride in the Magic Kingdom.

One last example: Goofy's Sky School, which should be in Mickey's Toontown, it seems, is instead in the Paradise Pier/Park area of the CA Adventure.

Anyway, I think I've made my point. You may think it's strange, but it's actually pretty common. And what's more, I'm not interested in doing a whole land for Pinocchio, just one ride, and not even a major E-ticket ride at that. Maybe a C-ticket, D tops.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

That's not true. There are many examples of matching things that are nowhere near each other. For example, Alien Pizza Planet in Disneyland's Tomorrowland is nowhere near the Buzz Lightyear ride, nor is Star Tours (either in Disneyland or the Studios) anywhere near Galaxy's Edge.

While on the subject of Buzz Lightyear, you would think they would put the Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story Land and not Tomorrowland, but they didn't. Several resorts have a Buzz Lightyear ride and a Toy Story Land, sometimes in the same park, and yet they are nowhere near close to each other. And then there's the Peter Pan flight simulator deal being added to Tokyo DisneySea, even though the Peter Pan ride in Tokyo Disneyland is not going anywhere, as far as I know.

Speaking of, Disneyland once had and Disneyland Paris still does have Captain Hook's pirate ship and Skull Rock as explorable places, but they were/are nowhere near the Peter Pan ride in either park.

And let's not forget the Little Mermaid stage/puppet show at the Studios, even though there is a dark ride in the Magic Kingdom.

One last example: Goofy's Sky School, which should be in Mickey's Toontown, it seems, is instead in the Paradise Pier/Park area of the CA Adventure.

Anyway, I think I've made my point. You may think it's strange, but it's actually pretty common. And what's more, I'm not interested in doing a whole land for Pinocchio, just one ride, and not even a major E-ticket ride at that. Maybe a C-ticket, D tops.

Wrong, Buzz Lightyear is in a different park than Toy Story Land. So it falls under different rules than Pinocchio. In fact many IP's have different rides and shows throughout Disney World like Finding Nemo, which is at both Epcot and Animal Kingdom. Frozen, which is at Epcot and Hollywood Studios. And Beauty and the Beast and The Little Mermaid, which are both in Hollywood and Magic.

Star Tours and Galaxy's Edge are both Star Wars, but different parts of the series. But even though they are different parts, both still do feel a bit strange being in different areas. This is why many fans of come up with ideas to connect them. Star Tours is also a remnant of the past version of Hollywood. Before Galaxy's Edge was even a dream in some imagineers' little minds. It is also an expensive attraction and not a quick service like Pinocchio's Village Haus. So getting rid of it or moving it would be expensive as well.

 

[mharrington]

Wrong, Buzz Lightyear is in a different park than Toy Story Land. So it falls under different rules than Pinocchio. In fact many IP's have different rides and shows throughout Disney World like Finding Nemo, which is at both Epcot and Animal Kingdom. Frozen, which is at Epcot and Hollywood Studios. And Beauty and the Beast and The Little Mermaid, which are both in Hollywood and Magic.

Those are all derivative of the same IPs, however. And I was referring to ALL Disney parks, not just WDW. Also, in Shanghai, there's a Buzz Lightyear ride in Tomorrowland, separate from Toy Story Land. The same thing with Hong Kong before Buzz was redone as Ant-Man.

Star Tours and Galaxy's Edge are both Star Wars, but different parts of the series. But even though they are different parts, both still do feel a bit strange being in different areas. This is why many fans of come up with ideas to connect them. Star Tours is also a remnant of the past version of Hollywood. Before Galaxy's Edge was even a dream in some imagineers' little minds. It is also an expensive attraction and not a quick service like Pinocchio's Village Haus. So getting rid of it or moving it would be expensive as well.

Star Wars is Star Wars, no matter how you slice it. Again, I was talking about all Disney parks, not just WDW. And it would be beyond impossible to connect one to the other in Disneyland.

More importantly, I want to preserve the Village Haus theme, because they already changed it at Disneyland. If it got rethemed here, then Paris and Shanghai would be the only parks in existence with Pinocchio-themed eateries. There's a reason I'm trying to minimize the setting connection here, beyond the characters, with a Monstro theme, which is set in the sea and not in the village.

 

[mharrington]

Another potential place for a Pinocchio-themed flat ride MIGHT be in the space for Mickey's PhilharMagic, which is so much closer to the Village Haus that you think should be taken into account when considering a Pinocchio ride, but the footprint for that seems pretty small there, too.

The only other place where a ride MIGHT go is over where the bathrooms are near the Village Haus, but that's a problem because it's right close by to the entrance to the all-important Utilidors, as seen on Google Maps.

As you can see, I'm trying to take realism into account and not just going all blue sky, where real-world constraints mean nothing. That's why I'm focusing on the Speedway area, which at least takes up a lot of space and which is not particularly popular anyway.

 

[mharrington]

Pinocchio has always been associated with the circus/funfair/theatre aesthetic, as seen in his dark ride, in parades and shows, etc. Placing Geppetto's workshop in a circus would make no sense. The Disney attractions tend to present what could be considered alternate takes on the films, or at a point where the characters exist before or after their happy endings. Pinocchio would likely be a puppet as that is how most people recognise him or visually imagine him. It would be a bit contradictory setting an attraction after the film's ending, as it would neutralise Pinocchio's happy ending by turning him back into a puppet. Frozen Ever After and Splash Mountain 2.0 follow the "set after the film" narrative, but that can't really be done with Pinocchio, since the character undergoes a life changing transformation.

What about the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train, though? That isn't "set after the film", is it? It's set DURING the film (i.e., the Dwarfs working in the mine, coming home and then having their party with Snow White in the cottage while the Queen-turned-Witch looks on from outside). Or what about the Little Mermaid ride? That's a retelling of the movie.

However, you're right in that Geppetto's workshop would make no sense here, which is one reason why I had brought up how the Pinocchio ride might have worked in Dumbo's Circusland (before it was added to Fantasyland proper instead), as I have no information to go on there and thus nothing to compare it, too. It would just basically the trip through Pleasure Island (and maybe Stromboli's puppet show before that), and that's it. It would have to be drastically different than the ride in Disneyland.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

The only other place where a ride MIGHT go is over where the bathrooms are near the Village Haus, but that's a problem because it's right close by to the entrance to the all-important Utilidors, as seen on Google Maps.

Yep, that's the area I said in the other thread. There's plenty of space and it doesn't have to fit into a section it may not belong. I don't think the utilidors matter much either because it's mostly wide open.

 

[mharrington]

Yep, that's the area I said in the other thread. There's plenty of space and it doesn't have to fit into a section it may not belong. I don't think the utilidors matter much either because it's mostly wide open.

I tried fitting, say, a copy of the swinging balloons (like Emotional Whirlwind) over there, but even that requires a decent-sized footprint that, in this case, is too big for this space. You have to take the queue, which here would be themed to Geppetto's workshop, into account, as well as the ride mechanism. It just seems too small of a space for back there.

Unlike a lot of people here, I try to be ultrarealistic and not just pure blue sky.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

I tried fitting, say, a copy of the swinging balloons (like Emotional Whirlwind) over there, but even that requires a decent-sized footprint that, in this case, is too big for this space. You have to take the queue, which here would be themed to Geppetto's workshop, into account, as well as the ride mechanism. It just seems too small of a space for back there.

Unlike a lot of people here, I try to be ultrarealistic and not just pure blue sky.

You could always change what type of ride you are doing. One that would probably fit with the aesthetic of Fantasyland better.

If not, there's always the option of just over the tracks. Like what they've done for Toontown and Galaxy's Edge in Disneyland. The Tron ride is even on the other side of the tracks in Disney World as well.

 

[mharrington]

You could always change what type of ride you are doing. One that would probably fit with the aesthetic of Fantasyland better.

If not, there's always the option of just over the tracks. Like what they've done for Toontown and Galaxy's Edge in Disneyland. The Tron ride is even on the other side of the tracks in Disney World as well.

I don't know what type of ride to do, and I don't want to change the tracks just to accommodate one simple ride, which is super costly anyway.

 

[mharrington]

Unlike a lot of people here, I don't believe in conforming the surrounding area to my ideas if it's just like Roller Coaster Tycoon. I try to take reality into account. You really think it's so easy to deal with the railroad tracks? I prefer to work within logistics than just be pure blue sky, as you seem to be suggesting. Are you suggesting that I should just ignore logistics and just go pure blue sky?

Anyway, another idea I've had was to do a caterpillar-style spinning ride like Scuttle's Scooters (at Tokyo DisneySea) or the Slinky Dog Zigzag Spin (at Disney Studios Paris and Hong Kong Disneyland), which does not take up a lot of space at all, and in fact seems really tiny if placed over at the Speedway. Even the spinning balloon ride may be a bit small for the Speedway's footprint (i.e., it can fit right in with one or two attractions). I've thought of maybe theming the balloons to look like Stromboli's puppets, with Pinocchio in the center. Or maybe it could be a swing ride like the Silly Symphony Swings.

As for the caterpillar-style spinning ride, maybe that could fit in the bathroom area near the Village Haus, but that might be a tight fit, particularly with the load area, which would be entirely enclosed, as it would be themed to Geppetto's workshop. Here's a sample image with Scuttle's Scooters in the area. Obviously, however, it would require a roof:

I'm also not sure if it's smart to put the ride so close to the Village Haus, as it can effectively give the teacups a run for its money in terms of making people sick right after eating, as some may do here. The ride space is small, but it can pack a punch.

In any case, that's pretty much all that can fit back there. Of course, with the Pinocchio ride now being put someplace else besides the Speedway, it leaves the question of what to do with the Speedway.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

Unlike a lot of people here, I don't believe in conforming the surrounding area to my ideas if it's just like Roller Coaster Tycoon. I try to take reality into account. You really think it's so easy to deal with the railroad tracks? I prefer to work within logistics than just be pure blue sky, as you seem to be suggesting. Are you suggesting that I should just ignore logistics and just go pure blue sky?

Anyway, another idea I've had was to do a caterpillar-style spinning ride like Scuttle's Scooters (at Tokyo DisneySea) or the Slinky Dog Zigzag Spin (at Disney Studios Paris and Hong Kong Disneyland), which does not take up a lot of space at all, and in fact seems really tiny if placed over at the Speedway. Even the spinning balloon ride may be a bit small for the Speedway's footprint (i.e., it can fit right in with one or two attractions). I've thought of maybe theming the balloons to look like Stromboli's puppets, with Pinocchio in the center. Or maybe it could be a swing ride like the Silly Symphony Swings.

As for the caterpillar-style spinning ride, maybe that could fit in the bathroom area near the Village Haus, but that might be a tight fit, particularly with the load area, which would be entirely enclosed, as it would be themed to Geppetto's workshop. Here's a sample image with Scuttle's Scooters in the area. Obviously, however, it would require a roof:

I'm also not sure if it's smart to put the ride so close to the Village Haus, as it can effectively give the teacups a run for its money in terms of making people sick right after eating, as some may do here. The ride space is small, but it can pack a punch.

In any case, that's pretty much all that can fit back there. Of course, with the Pinocchio ride now being put someplace else besides the Speedway, it leaves the question of what to do with the Speedway.

You're not being realistic though. Nobody wants just a spinning ride where the Speedway is or anywhere else. Unless it is the 3rd ride in a land (like Alien Swirling Saucers) and people are getting much better rides with it.

If they wanted to Disney could build a ramp or bridge over the tracks. They should know how to do it, they've been building them for over 65 years. Anyways It's a better idea than putting Pinocchio in the middle of Tomorrowland.

If not those then you can go with my idea. "Pinocchio's Daring Journey" could fit in back of "Small World", with the queue replacing the restrooms.

P.S. .... And stop acting like you're better than everyone else because you're definitely not.

 

[mharrington]

You're not being realistic though. Nobody wants just a spinning ride where the Speedway is or anywhere else. Unless it is the 3rd ride in a land (like Alien Swirling Saucers) and people are getting much better rides with it.

How am I not being realistic by trying to work within preexisting boundaries as much as possible? There is not a lot of space to do things. And honestly, what's wrong with a spinning ride? How is that unrealistic? And how do you know what people want or don't want?

If they wanted to Disney could build a ramp or bridge over the tracks. They should know how to do it, they've been building them for over 65 years. Anyways It's a better idea than putting Pinocchio in the middle of Tomorrowland.

Do you know what a logistical nightmare it would be to do that? That doesn't seem very realistic to me. You would have to reroute the train, first off, and bust through the berm. And it would have to super expensive to do. I'm pretty sure there's a reason it doesn't happen all that often. And really, why does everything have to always be a big, E-ticket attraction? And why do you assume my idea for Pinocchio is going in Tomorrowland? My plan would have been to actually reduce Tomorrowland a tad and have Fantasyland take over, using rockwork or something to help separate the two.

If not those then you can go with my idea. "Pinocchio's Daring Journey" could fit in back of "Small World", with the queue replacing the restrooms.

Why does everyone keep wanting to eliminate Small World from WDW? I can't see it going anywhere else, and honestly, it's too much of a hassle anyway, for all the same reasons I argued against busting through the berm beyond Storybook Circus. Again, why do you want me to ignore logistics and go all big, all E-ticket, all the time? What's wrong with a few simpler rides once in a while? And why a clone of the Pinocchio dark ride?

P.S. .... And stop acting like you're better than everyone else because you're definitely not.

I have autism and like to take things literally. I apologize, but that's just the way I like to do things, literally and realistically. And honestly, it's sort of a different style of things from the usual approach, which is to be as pure blue sky as possible.

And really, @Evilgidgit brought up some good points against putting it in Storybook Circus, which I hadn't really thought about before.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

It's condescending to say over and over in your Pinocchio threads "Unlike other people here I like to be realistic. blah, blah, blah." Learn how to speak to people and be respectful.

Plus they are not going to get rid of most of Speedway for 1 spinning ride, themed to Pinocchio. Especially with Tron behind it and Cosmic Ray right in front of it. It makes no sense based on it's surroundings.