News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[Casper Gutman]

HM, Splash, and BTM were indeed designed to be on the RoA.

That doesn't make it a sound choice with regard to theming.

RoA is the Mississippi with a Mississippi steam paddle boat. What does that have to do with Gothic New England, Reconstruction Georgia, or Gold Rush Arizona?

Sure, having a waterfront is always nice and picturesque, but they didn't put every attraction on a waterfront -- just the attractions that vaguely "frontierish" (altho, HM isn't even in Frontierland).

HM, a gothic upstate attraction, currently has a Mississippi riverboat going by it. Doesn't seem a stretch to have a National Park setting with off road vehicles going by.

The Rivers of America isn’t the Mississippi, it’s… the Rivers of America.

WDW’s Mansion is set, I believe, in The Hudson River Valley. Along the Hudson River. A River of America. Where there were steamships. Where, in fact, the steamship was largely invented in the early 19th century. Invented at a Hudson River Valley estate. Like the Haunted Mansion.

Imagineers used to think about these things.

 

[Casper Gutman]

So what exactly is your concern? That you will see the load building? Look at Seven Dwarves. You can walk entirely around that ride and it could not be any more charming on the outside if they tried. I think this will be just fine.

Seven Dwarves load is entirely contained in a fully-themed mountain. There is no unthemed roof. It also fits into the theming of the land on all sides of it. It also doesn’t have two elevated, partially outdoors, iconic attractions with clear views of the rides top directly next to it.

If Disney was replacing RoA with a top-to-bottom-fully-themed, area appropriate attraction - say Western River Adventure or an American Tall Tale dark ride encased in a mesa that becomes the mountains of upstate New York on the HM side, the decision would still be questionable but there would be a LOT more to defend. The current plan is atrocious across the board.

 

[peter11435]

Seven Dwarves load is entirely contained in a fully-themed mountain. There is no unthemed roof. It also fits into the theming of the land on all sides of it. It also doesn’t have two elevated, partially outdoors, iconic attractions with clear views of the rides top directly next to it.

If Disney was replacing RoA with a top-to-bottom-fully-themed, area appropriate attraction - say Western River Adventure or an American Tall Tale dark ride encased in a mesa that becomes the mountains of upstate New York on the HM side, the decision would still be questionable but there would be a LOT more to defend. The current plan is atrocious across the board.

I guess it’s a good thing those two nearby attractions won’t actually have clear views of the attractions roof. But yeah, you can continue complaining about a problem you’ve made up.

Oh and seven dwarfs does have some unthemed roof top. But almost as if it was intentional you can’t see it from in the park or on the ride.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

The Rivers of America isn’t the Mississippi, it’s… the Rivers of America.

WDW’s Mansion is set, I believe, in The Hudson River Valley. Along the Hudson River. A River of America. Where there were steamships. Where, in fact, the steamship was largely invented in the early 19th century. Invented at a Hudson River Valley estate. Like the Haunted Mansion.

Imagineers used to think about these things.

This new area is now called the "State Parks of America" or "Wilderness of America" boom

 

[mickEblu]

Definitely and even more so than WDW or DL they have Big Thunder already occupying the island.

I think the likeliest ‘doomsday’ scenario for Paris is the riverboat is parked and the back end of the river is filled in. But the front end seems pretty locked to me.

I do very much suspect Japan’s River announcement is semi imminent.

Wow Imminent? Is losing all that atmosphere worth 1 or 2 rides to them? This isn’t an MK situation where they have another expansion pad to connect to is it?

See if every castle park went Disneylands route or just lost the back half of the river I could view it as an acceptable evolution of a castle park considering modern day crowds and how much real estate the ROA takes. Losing the front half of the river in any castle park almost feels like replacing Mickey Mouse with Bugs Bunny to me. It’s such an integral part of the theming in that part of the park as well as the castle park experience in general IMO. Not to mention a large part of what sets Disney parks apart from other parks. Another thing to consider, nothing like the ROA will ever be built again in any theme park. That beautiful vista and that much real estate with an island in the middle and multiple boats and attractions moving about. That sort of layered place making and willingness to use that much space in that way will not be happening any time soon. No single cars ride or land could ever top it. Once they re gone, they re gone. At least in our lifetime.

Let’s hope it never goes away at Disneyland or Paris. I can’t think of one IP land that does its job better than the ROA does especially at Disneyland. It’s partly due to the stellar design as well as the fact that rivers, trees and boats can be executed organically in a way that a land with living cars, Wizards/ magical creatures or aliens/ spaceships can’t. In Galaxies Edge the ships don’t move. We just hear them taking off on speakers in the bushes. Over on the ROA, Frontierland and NOS the boats move, the trains chug along the tracks and everything is “real.” And you have water, space, kinetic energy etc that can be enjoyed by any passerby. Not just people riding or with the right sightline. That level of immersion (especially with themes/ lands that lend themselves to being executed in ways that feel real and organic) and how they transport you to another time and place makes something feel classic/ timeless. If you get down to it everything at the Disney parks that are timeless have that quality to it/ them in one way or another. This is what used to set Disney apart and they re throwing it away for short sighted goals.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Not a good day for that theory

Missing Alioramus Returns to DINOSAUR Attraction With Restored Range of Motion

Walt Disney World has restored and fixed the Alioramus dino on the DINOSAUR ride at Disney's Animal Kingdom

blogmickey.com

It’s obvious they were neglecting Dinosaur prior to the announcement of its demise.

This is fixing something AFTER they announced its demise when they realize the schedule will slip and they are forced to keep it open longer then they expected. Not the same thing as TSI.

 

[Disstevefan1]

It’s not so much that they intentionally neglect. It’s that all of these things need constant expensive maintenance and investment to keep them operating properly. When certain things break it’s hard to justify sometimes tens of thousand or more into repairing something you know won’t be needed much longer.

OK then let’s call it the intentional stoppage of maintenance. To me, to stop doing the required maintenance is neglect.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Definitely and even more so than WDW or DL they have Big Thunder already occupying the island.

I think the likeliest ‘doomsday’ scenario for Paris is the riverboat is parked and the back end of the river is filled in. But the front end seems pretty locked to me.

I do very much suspect Japan’s River announcement is semi imminent.

Japan does whatever the heck Japan wants to do.

Take Splash mountain for example. If TWDC wants to force OLC to change Splash, TWDC will have to pay OLC bug bucks.

 

[celluloid]

Japan's river/TSI is very different and is always busy as well as it's food and beverage. OLC aside, I don't see it changing drastically soon.

 

[peter11435]

The pictures and the topic in discussion I was referring to are from TOKYO Disneyland. They do not have a gift shop. Try reading the thread before trying to correct someone. Thanks for playing...

Or just be nice and more specific in your own posts. This thread is about Magic Kingdom. You only said Haunted Mansion and you didn’t quote anyone else so there was no way of knowing who you were replying to.

 

[BrianLo]

Wow Imminent? Is losing all that atmosphere worth 1 or 2 rides to them? This isn’t an MK situation where they have another expansion pad to connect to is it?

Japan’s ROA is uniquely integrated, the main walkway doesn’t really splay itself around the river in the same way. There’s an offshoot to camp woodchuck that follows the river and an offshoot to Splash that follows the river, but the main guest walking space kind of just comes towards and kisses it. That said, I rather like Westernland. As for the why, yes there is significant backstage expansion access including the footprint of the river itself. It’s occupying and blocking off 5 E tickets worth of space as it is currently integrated.

Japan's river/TSI is very different and is always busy as well as it's food and beverage. OLC aside, I don't see it changing drastically soon.

It’s an expansion space issue. They turned down Radiator Springs a decade ago, but there have been several rounds of height test balloons back there now over the last few years. I’m defining imminent as in their next major project for TDL after Space. What I’m not sure about is if TDS gets something first. Clearly they are signing off consistently on letting WDI present them projects for that space.

 

[MisterPenguin]

It’s obvious they were neglecting Dinosaur prior to the announcement of its demise.

This is fixing something AFTER they announced its demise when they realize the schedule will slip and they are forced to keep it open longer then they expected. Not the same thing as TSI.

"It's obvious" is not proof or objective reality. It's just a guess on your part.

You stated something as being true (Disney purposely lets sunsetting attractions rot) without any proof.

Proof was then shown to you that what you *surmised* wasn't true.

And now you have a new "it's obvious" statement that Disney is micromanaging maintenance of different sunsetting attractions at different rates for... reasons.

This is the hallmark of a conspiracy theory. That when the unsubstantiated claim is proved false with a counter example, the unsubstantiated claim morphs into a brand new unsubstantiated claim that is actually contrary to the first unsubstantiated claim. It's all shifting sands and moving goal posts.

And a grand conspiracy.

 

[Disstevefan1]

"It's obvious" is not proof or objective reality. It's just a guess on your part.

You stated something as being true (Disney purposely lets sunsetting attractions rot) without any proof.

Proof was then shown to you that what you *surmised* wasn't true.

And now you have a new "it's obvious" statement that Disney is micromanaging maintenance of different sunsetting attractions at different rates for... reasons.

This is the hallmark of a conspiracy theory. That when the unsubstantiated claim is proved false with a counter example, the unsubstantiated claim morphs into a brand new unsubstantiated claim that is actually contrary to the first unsubstantiated claim. It's all shifting sands and moving goal posts.

And a grand conspiracy.

Ok they allegedly unintentionally neglected TSI and it’s purely coincidence they are now going to destroy it for an announced Cars attraction.

 

[James Alucobond]

Ok they allegedly unintentionally neglected TSI and it’s purely coincidence they are now going to destroy it for an announced Cars attraction.

There are many things that are neglected that aren't going away anytime soon. Level of neglect might be related to popularity in either direction (e.g. lack of interest makes maintenance less of a priority, or lack of maintenance makes something less interesting), but that doesn't mean it's necessarily an intentional step in killing an attraction, especially when we've seen many examples of regularly scheduled maintenance happening on attractions right up until their closing that borders on excessively wasteful. I doubt maintenance alters their schedule and cadence much based on the promise of future construction.

 

[Disstevefan1]

There are many things that are neglected that aren't going away anytime soon. Level of neglect might be related to popularity in either direction (e.g. lack of interest makes maintenance less of a priority, or lack of maintenance makes something less interesting), but that doesn't mean it's necessarily an intentional step in killing an attraction, especially when we've seen many examples of regularly scheduled maintenance happening on attractions right up until their closing that borders on excessively wasteful. I doubt maintenance alters their schedule and cadence much based on the promise of future construction.

I must agree, no matter the motive, there is neglect seen all around WDW.

Just my personal opinion, the neglect is a result of cost cutting and that TWDC knows folks (including me) will show up to WDW anyway.

 

[Disone]

Ok they allegedly unintentionally neglected TSI and it’s purely coincidence they are now going to destroy it for an announced Cars attraction.

That was probably meant to sarcasm but honestly it's closer to the truth. Tom Sawyer Island's neglect is not recent and honestly the maintenance budgets of operations and the budgets of new attractions are completely separate beasts that have very little influence on each other. It is not the case that there's one Mastermind in charge that directs both maintenance funding and new attraction timing/funding.

For example Muppets was recently refurbished with new upholstery and many of its non-working effects have been restored only to suddenly announce that it is going away. Another example of the maintenance budget being unrelated and separate from the new attraction budget.

 

[Disstevefan1]

For example Muppets was recently refurbished with new upholstery and many of its non-working effects have been restored only to suddenly announce that it is going away.

RAM = Random Access Management

 

[PizzaPlanet]

For what guests are paying, every attraction should be in nearly perfect shape at any given time. Regardless of what’s scheduled to close soon

 

[Disstevefan1]

For what guests are paying, every attraction should be in nearly perfect shape at any given time. Regardless of what’s scheduled to close soon

 

[Nickm2022]

Did we find out the closure date yet? Also am curious how long will it take for them to actually start construction after closure as I don't remember the last time Disney leveled an old attraction to make way for a new one (not counting rethemes).

Also respectfully I have accepted Tom Sawyer Island and Rivers of America are going away and Cars and Villains are on their way. I have mixed feelings, but overall I am hopeful that the new expansions are themed well, enjoyable, and do new things we've yet to experience. I say this because I get being mad and complaining, I was there too, but just because your upset doesn't mean you should close yourself off to that there is stuff to be excited about with this. For all we know New Frontierland and Villainsland could rival the emersion of Fantasy Springs. That said if Disney drops the ball they'll never hear the end of it from me as we should. All im saying is hoping for less complaining about what's gonna happen and more what you hope to happen with this expansion, just my two cents tho.