Feedwater heaters on the WDWRR locomotives

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disneytrain2001

Active Member
Original Poster
Fun Fact: During the late 1990s, former WDWRR roundhouse foreman George Britton built a feedwater heater (heat exchanger) from scratch on his own and install it on to the Lilly Belle. This was made to pre-heat the locomotive's water and improve its efficiency. Britton gave the same treatment to the other three locomotives later on. Sadly, the feedwater heaters on the Lilly, Walter, and Roger were removed because after their overhaul at Strasburg, the locomotives are now equipped with a large battery box behind the tender instead of the steam generator which generates the feedwater heater.
Lilly_Belle_on_track.jpg

Here's a 2006 image of the Lilly Belle and you can visibly see the feedwater heater underneath her running board.
 
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disneytrain2001

Active Member
Original Poster
TrainsOfDisney said:
Why have a steam generator when you can have a battery! I know we dodged a bullet by keeping steam at all but the electric starters and battery packs are a sore subject with me! Haha.
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That's right, because the feedwater heater ONLY depends on the steam generator and NOT the battery. But with Walter, Lilly, and Roger now equipped with a large battery behind their tender, there's no way to generate the feedwater heater. Roy will be given the same treatment as the other three locos, once he gets transport up to Strasburg.
 
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Captain Barbossa

Captain Barbossa

Well-Known Member
disneytrain2001 said:
Really? So that explains why Roy's steam generator box no longer emits steam.
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They were removed around 2015ish. The dynamo had an issue that maintenance deemed beyond repairable, so they went ahead and replaced it with batteries. You could see the weld marks on the box where they had to make makeshift housing within the box.
 
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disneytrain2001

Active Member
Original Poster
Captain Barbossa said:
They were removed around 2015ish. The dynamo had an issue that maintenance deemed beyond repairable, so they went ahead and replaced it with batteries. You could see the weld marks on the box where they had to make makeshift housing within the box.
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Aside from that, what happened to the WDWRR locomotives' feedwater heaters? I hope they're in storage in the roundhouse somewhere.
 
Rinx

Rinx

Well-Known Member
They were not disassembled prior to shipment up to Strasburg and since they will no longer be using them I would assume they'll just be tossed.
 
DisAl

DisAl

Well-Known Member
I thought feedwater heaters were in the smokebox in front of the boiler. Were they using exhaust steam from the generator for the feedwater heaters?
 
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disneytrain2001

Active Member
Original Poster
DisAl said:
I thought feedwater heaters were in the smokebox in front of the boiler. Were they using exhaust steam from the generator for the feedwater heaters?
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Yes, but the feedwater heaters worked the same way as the heat exchangers and another term for the latter that I prefer. :p
 
DisAl

DisAl

Well-Known Member
Rinx said:
Britton's design saved about 5-7 gallons of water per hour. Add that up throughout an operating day times however many engines are used on an average day and it's pretty significant.
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Did you mean gallons of FUEL per hour?
 
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DisneyFanatic12

Well-Known Member
Rinx said:
Britton's design saved about 5-7 gallons of water per hour. Add that up throughout an operating day times however many engines are used on an average day and it's pretty significant.
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Any guess as to how much water per day they go through? It has to be pretty significant!
 
DisAl

DisAl

Well-Known Member
TrainsOfDisney said:
The locomotives run off of steam, which is created by water in the boiler. The fuel just keeps the fire going to create the steam.
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You are missing something here on the basics of a steam engine. The motive force for the pistons is from pressurized steam, but the steam is created by burning FUEL. The purpose of the preheater is to use what would otherwise be wasted heat energy to preheat the feedwater so that it does not take as much FUEL to turn that water into steam. The same amount of steam (water) is required to move the locomotive no matter how that steam is created. You don't save any water at all using a preheater, just the fuel required to turn it into steam.
 
TrainsOfDisney

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
DisAl said:
You are missing something here on the basics of a steam engine.
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I don’t think you know who you are talking to lol.

Feedwater heaters save on both water and fuel - I thought you were implying the locomotives run on fuel only, many think that especially since WDW chooses to burn diesel.
 
DisAl

DisAl

Well-Known Member
TrainsOfDisney said:
I don’t think you know who you are talking to lol.

Feedwater heaters save on both water and fuel - I thought you were implying the locomotives run on fuel only, many think that especially since WDW chooses to burn diesel.
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Explain how water is saved.
It still takes the same amount of steam and thus the same amount of water to drive the pistons the same distance.
The only difference with the preheater is that the water is warmer when it goes in the boiler. That requires less fuel to produce the same amount of steam. To be precise, the locomotive does run on fuel of some type. No fuel, no steam. Burning fuel to produce steam is just another way of converting fuel energy into mechanical energy. So from an engineering perspective the locomotives DO run on fuel oil (not diesel). Steam does not produce any energy, it is just a transfer medium.
 
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DisneyFanatic12

Well-Known Member
DisAl said:
Explain how water is saved.
It still takes the same amount of steam and thus the same amount of water to drive the pistons the same distance.
The only difference with the preheater is that the water is warmer when it goes in the boiler. That requires less fuel to produce the same amount of steam. To be precise, the locomotive does run on fuel of some type. No fuel, no steam. Burning fuel to produce steam is just another way of converting fuel energy into mechanical energy. So from an engineering perspective the locomotives DO run on fuel oil (not diesel). Steam does not produce any energy, it is just a transfer medium.
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@TrainsOfDisney almost certainly knows more than I do about this, but I believe that at least a portion of the saved water can be placed on this. I don’t know very much about Disney’s steam engines, but what I believe from my limited knowledge is that the hotter input water would also likely result in hotter steam (assuming a similar amount of energy is being applied). The water, theoretically, is only a medium to store energy, and therefore hotter steam results in more energy being exerted on the engine of the train. This reduces the amount of freshwater that the train needs to be fed because the train's turbines are being spun more efficiently. In other words, hotter water is doing the same amount of work with less water and greater energy. TrainsofDisney can certainly correct me, and I may be completely wrong, but I believe this to be the cause.

(This is more of a guess than an actual answer, I might be completely wrong 🤣)
 

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