News Avatar Experience coming to Disneyland Resort

[Disney Irish]

Bingo. The "I can just travel California" argument is stupid. I love seeing the places that have inspired Disneyland, but ultimately Disneyland is still Disneyland and that carries a certain air that distinguishes it from its influences. Same goes for DCA. I can go to Los Angeles, Hollywood, and Santa Cruz, but I can't go to Carthay Circle, Hollywood Tower Hotel, and Paradise Pier.

No one here called it stupid if you like the "California" theming, so not sure why you have to call other's opinions stupid just because they don't like it and provided reasons why. Just because someone has a different opinion than you doesn't mean you have to disrespect them.

I've traveled and lived in different locations within the state as well as outside the state for more years than you've been alive, all places are flawed. But that doesn't mean I want a fantasized version of them just because they are flawed. The concept has its merits but its also still very limiting in my opinion. And if I'm going to spend my money on a theme park vacation I rather spend it on a place that isn't themed to a specific locale but is themed to a broad theme.

 

[coffeefan]

I appreciate your opinion, as I do the Professor there, and I agree that DCA 1.0 was just a pathetic attempt at a Park due to many factors but specifically execution. However with that said while its possible I would have enjoyed a TDS level of theming execution for DCA had it been done, we're back to the "What if"/"What could've been" discussion. Its a futile exercise that ends up just upsetting people. In the end I still stand by my opinion that no matter the level of execution "California" is just a limiting theme for a Park, ie I don't need to be sold on the idea which it appears many tries to do when this topic comes up. I appreciate broad themes not locale themes. As there is so much more that you be done with a broadly themed Park then one themed to a specific locale, again just my opinion. That doesn't mean anyone that likes the "California" theme is wrong, its just what I like vs dislike.

Well, the conversation will keep coming around because of the Grizzly area, and the park will remain a disjointed piecemeal park until Disney goes all-in on a Movie/IP park experience. That is why many of us would prefer a reimagined Avatar land for Grizzly. And if the layout is improved the space may even be big enough for an Endor land there too.

 

[Disney Irish]

Well, the conversation will keep coming around because of the Grizzly area, and the park will remain a disjointed piecemeal park until Disney goes all-in on a Movie/IP park experience. That is why many of us would prefer a reimagined Avatar land for Grizzly. And if the layout is improved the space may even be big enough for an Endor land there too.

Don't kid yourself, the conversation will keep coming up no matter what happens with Grizzly Peak or what Disney does with the rest of the Park.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

and the park will remain a disjointed piecemeal park until Disney goes all-in on a Movie/IP park experience.

I really hope this is eventually what happens.

I can appreciate the charm of what is left of the California theme, but it's just not going to work the more this park continues to grow. I think it would genuinely help the park overall to not have to be caught between two different identities like it currently is.

 

[MistaDee]

Funny how you mention books and other media but on that list it only counts the MCU, forgetting about 80 years of comic books video games etc. Also you notltice how spider man is right below the MCU? Kinda part of marvel too you know. Also this graph shows no video games or other revenue for the MCU. So it is that high on the list based only on box office and movie merchandise. This list is also 5 years old so Marvel has continued to be huge when star wars, Harry potter etc have been relatively quiet. Also pokemon, hello kitty etc are far bigger outside the US.

Totally agree that it's an imperfect metric, just wanted to offer an alternative to nominal box office. I'm curious to see which brands will be driving growth for Disney over the next 15 years and how that IP is then utilized for theme park uses. Not saying Marvel is terrible or irrelevant, just that there are some other ways to look at these IP - particularly in terms of theme park uses.

Avatar for instance, very high box office numbers, inflated partly from 3D glasses - but very little else on Walt's "flywheel" not a ton of merchandise, books, video games, etc. I'd also say characters aren't a super strong element from the IP but all of those downsides fail to matter because the world of Pandora itself translates to a theme park in a really compelling way.

So no biggie if you don't like Marvel, but US consumers who vote with their wallets disagree with you and this makes it worthy of a large space in a disney theme park. Fans get excited for these attractions. Cosmic rewind is my current favorite ride in the US. I can't wait for the 2 new avengers campus rides because overall the rides for AC have been disappointing. Especially since I hate elevator drops lol.

I'm actually a big fan of Marvel comics going back well before the Disney acquisition, but have really lost interest in the MCU post Endgame. I don't think I'm alone in that, and suspect that much of the delay we've seen with this Avenger's Campus E-ticket is due to Disney's own questions about the relative viability of the IP.

Just in terms of content, they've really slowed down production:

And accordingly, box office numbers and review scores are also down quite a bit:

The MCU is undeniably a major franchise pillar in Disney's IP empire, but it does seem as though those consumers are starting to vote in a different direction more recently.

I appreciate your opinion, as I do the Professor there, and I agree that DCA 1.0 was just a pathetic attempt at a Park due to many factors but specifically execution. However with that said while its possible I would have enjoyed a TDS level of theming execution for DCA had it been done, we're back to the "What if"/"What could've been" discussion. Its a futile exercise that ends up just upsetting people. In the end I still stand by my opinion that no matter the level of execution "California" is just a limiting theme for a Park, ie I don't need to be sold on the idea which it appears many tries to do when this topic comes up. I appreciate broad themes not locale themes. As there is so much more that you be done with a broadly themed Park then one themed to a specific locale, again just my opinion. That doesn't mean anyone that likes the "California" theme is wrong, its just what I like vs dislike.

Fair enough, I can see where you're coming from. In that case are you rejoicing now that it seems we're moving towards the more abstract "Disney Adventure Park (in California)" concept?

Well, the conversation will keep coming around because of the Grizzly area, and the park will remain a disjointed piecemeal park until Disney goes all-in on a Movie/IP park experience. That is why many of us would prefer a reimagined Avatar land for Grizzly. And if the layout is improved the space may even be big enough for an Endor land there too.

As others have pointed out, both the proximity and the theme of the flagship hotel for the entire Disneyland Resort's are predicated on Grizzly Peak remaining largely as it is. The negative impacts that major construction would have on multiple years of 5 star hotel stays would far outweigh any potential benefit.

I think it's fair to surmise that Avatar is headed for either the Hollywood Backlot (most likely) or into the new Simba plot (possible)

 

[mickEblu]

Decimating Grizzly Peak and having to retheme the Grand in the name of IP consistency is crazy talk. DCA (as most theme parks) is a hodge podge of lands/attractions / themes. Some with ties to California, some with paper thin connections and some with no connection at all. It will still be a hodge podge of lands if Grizzly Peak was rethemed to Avatar. Except instead you now spent billions of dollars for very little gain in capacity and instead of just losing Monsters Inc you lost all of that beautiful atmosphere and two popular rides. For what, so 13 hardcore Super fans can sleep better at night knowing that 8/8 of lands are themed to IP at DCA instead of 7/8? With all due respect, please don’t quit your day jobs. Lol. There’s a Big Al statue next to GRR and Redwood Creek is themed to Brother Bear if that makes y’all feel better. Haha

Unless maybe does Avatar 5 take place in a forest that resembles that Pacific Northwest?

 

[Consumer]

I grew up and lived in California for 20 years. I still visit regularly. I've been from San Diego to San Francisco, from the Sierras to the coast. I love California. I love her fertile valleys and her dear mountains I adore. Her grandeur is not lost on me, and neither are her flaws, which I have seen and experienced first hand.

I'm not saying Grizzly Peak will ever be as jaw dropping as Yosemite, but it can give the same pleasantness to those who can't afford the high cost of gas to drive up the 5.

Hollywood Land is probably the best example of the potential of a California theme park. The real Hollywood sucks. It's a filthy, stinky, crowded, disgusting mess full of drugs and homeless encampments. Despite that, the idea of a Hollywood full of glitz and glamor lingers on in the minds of Americans. It is that fictional, exaggerated, romanticized idea of Hollywood that DCA should be creating. One of limousines, movie stars, and high society. That Hollywood does not exist, nor will it ever exist, but it could exist in a Disney park.

That's what Disney parks excel at. New Orleans is nice, but it's no New Orleans Square. Marceline has its charm, but it's not Main Street USA. I'm sure India, Africa, and the Near East are thrilling, but I'd rather visit Adventureland. California Adventure should have been what Disneyland is to these places.

 

[Disney Irish]

Totally agree that it's an imperfect metric, just wanted to offer an alternative to nominal box office. I'm curious to see which brands will be driving growth for Disney over the next 15 years and how that IP is then utilized for theme park uses. Not saying Marvel is terrible or irrelevant, just that there are some other ways to look at these IP - particularly in terms of theme park uses.

Avatar for instance, very high box office numbers, inflated partly from 3D glasses - but very little else on Walt's "flywheel" not a ton of merchandise, books, video games, etc. I'd also say characters aren't a super strong element from the IP but all of those downsides fail to matter because the world of Pandora itself translates to a theme park in a really compelling way.


I'm actually a big fan of Marvel comics going back well before the Disney acquisition, but have really lost interest in the MCU post Endgame. I don't think I'm alone in that, and suspect that much of the delay we've seen with this Avenger's Campus E-ticket is due to Disney's own questions about the relative viability of the IP.

Just in terms of content, they've really slowed down production:
View attachment 816856
And accordingly, box office numbers and review scores are also down quite a bit:
View attachment 816857

The MCU is undeniably a major franchise pillar in Disney's IP empire, but it does seem as though those consumers are starting to vote in a different direction more recently.

I will say that I think too many counted the MCU out post-Endgame, Deadpool & Wolverine has proven that the MCU and Marvel in general is not dead yet and neither is its popularity. And as shown by the Deadpool interactions and crowds surrounding the same in DCA its not stagnant and dead either in Avengers Campus.

Fair enough, I can see where you're coming from. In that case are you rejoicing now that it seems we're moving towards the more abstract "Disney Adventure Park (in California)" concept?

Rejoice is a strong word as that implies there was feeling of despair or contempt toward DCA, which there was not. But I am happy that they appear to moving on from the "California" theme to be more broadly themed.

 

[Disney Irish]

Decimating Grizzly Peak and having to retheme the Grand in the name of IP consistency is crazy talk. DCA (as most theme parks) is a hodge podge of lands/attractions / themes. Some with ties to California, some with paper thin connections and some with no connection at all. It will still be a hodge podge of lands if Grizzly Peak was rethemed to Avatar. Except instead you now spent billions of dollars for very little gain in capacity and instead of just losing Monsters Inc you lost all of that beautiful atmosphere and two popular rides. For what, so 13 hardcore Super fans can sleep better at night knowing that 8/8 of lands are themed to IP at DCA instead of 7/8? With all due respect, please don’t quit your day jobs. Lol. There’s a Big Al statue next to GRR and Redwood Creek is themed to Brother Bear if that makes y’all feel better. Haha

Unless maybe does Avatar 5 take place in a forest that resembles that Pacific Northwest?

Personally I prefer a "hodge podge" theme park with random concepts and themes over one that tries to keep a strict unified theme, Its why I love Disneyland. Also I wouldn't mind if Grizzly Peak largely remained the same, even with its ties to the old California theme. Let it remain as the last remaining vestige of the "California" theme, even if some IP is used there.

Only thing I would do is remove RCT and put in a dark ride there. But other than that the rest can remain largely untouched. And if that makes some sad and long for what could have been with the "California" theme so be it.

 

[mickEblu]

Personally I prefer a "hodge podge" theme park with random concepts and themes over one that tries to keep a strict unified theme, Its why I love Disneyland. Also I wouldn't mind if Grizzly Peak largely remained the same, even with its ties to the old California theme. Let it remain as the last remaining vestige of the "California" theme, even if some IP is used there.

Only thing I would do is remove RCT and put in a dark ride there. But other than that the rest can remain largely untouched. And if that makes some sad and long for what could have been with the "California" theme so be it.

I don’t think it needs it and I’d prefer it staying as is but I’d be ok with some light IPification of Grizzly Peak if need be but that’s it. Just no Planes, Fire Rescue please.

Disney theme parks have become more hodge podgey over the years as IP has become the focus. In the process their themes have been watered down. Walt nailed it with Disneyland with all the different broadly themed lands all kind of tied together by Americana. We don’t view Disneyland as a hodge podge for this reason and because it’s the one that started it all. It’s when you have these theme parks with more specific themes and a bunch of Single IP lands that makes them feel hodge podgey. Not that most people care.

RCT? Red Car Trolley?

 

[Misted Compass]

While I doubt Pandora would go there I wouldn't be surprised if Grizzly Peak gets a cheap retheme to Gravity Falls, Up, or another IP that would allow them to keep the Grand Californian without much changes.

 

[mickEblu]

While I doubt Pandora would go there I wouldn't be surprised if Grizzly Peak gets a cheap retheme to Gravity Falls, Up, or another IP that would allow them to keep the Grand Californian without much changes.

Gravity Falls, I always forget what that is. I thought about UP but the boy being a boy scout is a pretty weak connection. I don’t think there is a slam dunk IP for Grizzly Peak at the moment. Id take Country Bears over the field but then you still have Soarin. The Country Bears and Grizzly Peak I think would be a good marriage and be good for the park. Being the nostalgic land that gives the warm n fuzzies on two fronts. Being the last original land at DCA and bringing back the bears to DLR. But I don’t know think they would be strengthening the CBJ theme at Hungry Bear if this was the plan.

 

[mickEblu]

I remember my uncles first time at DCA with me about 8 or so years ago. He didn't use the term hodge podge but with absolutely no influence from me said something along the lines of the park feeling like a bunch of a random stuff thrown together. And he's no theme park nerd by any means but does have an artistic eye due to the business he's in. I believe the specific moment he made the comment was about midday walking down the performance corridor and passing the Bugs Land and Cars Land entrances back to back. This was before Avengers Campus, Pixar Pier, Mission Breakout and San Fransokyo. For him, even back then at height of DCA 2.0 the hodge podginess of single IP lands came across much stronger than the lands having some sort of cohesive California theme. Anecdotal but I believe this is how the typical guest probably sees the park. The only difference being whether they think it's a good or bad thing or if they care at all.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

Gravity Falls, I always forget what that is.

It was a Disney Channel show that was set in a town that I think aesthetically could fit in with the Grand just fine. The main characters live in a place that looks very similar to the hotel from what I remember of it (it's been a long while since I've seen it).

The thing about Gravity Falls though is that it has a very dedicated fanbase but I'm unsure of how big that fanbase is exactly. I was young when the show was first airing so maybe I'm missing it having a really huge fanbase, but it's always in my mind been more of a the-few-but-proud style of fanbases. And that makes me wonder if they'd ever really commit to doing a whole land based on it.

Very interested in hearing anyone else who're more knowledgable about the show's legacy than I either confirm or refute!

 

[DarkMetroid567]

Walt nailed it with Disneyland with all the different broadly themed lands all kind of tied together by Americana. We don’t view Disneyland as a hodge podge for this reason and because it’s the one that started it all.

This may getting too far away from the thread, but are we sure that he recognized or even cared about this? I don’t see the Americana in Fantasyland or Tomorrowland 1955, and I imagine the motivation for Frontierland was heavily influenced by Knott’s already existing ghost town and the high popularity of westerns (including Disney’s own series) at the time.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don’t think it needs it and I’d prefer it staying as is but I’d be ok with some light IPification of Grizzly Peak if need be but that’s it. Just no Planes, Fire Rescue please.

Disney theme parks have become more hodge podgey over the years as IP has become the focus. In the process their themes have been watered down. Walt nailed it with Disneyland with all the different broadly themed lands all kind of tied together by Americana. We don’t view Disneyland as a hodge podge for this reason and because it’s the one that started it all. It’s when you have these theme parks with more specific themes and a bunch of Single IP lands that makes them feel hodge podgey. Not that most people care.

Well to me parks work better when they are broadly themed not to a single thing, ie the different lands with different themes works better. I call that being hodge podge, but whatever. Everyone I know considers Disneyland a hodge podge of themes, and its why they all like it and go. None of them ever liked the "California" theme of DCA and enjoy what its turned into rather than what it tried to be originally. Its probably why we're all friends and do trips together.

Anyways I'm not really looking to get back into this debate that has already taken up many pages in this thread.

RCT? Red Car Trolley?

Sorry, Redwood Creek Trail, I guess the true acronym is RCCT with the second C being Challenge, but no one ever really says the challenge part these days.

 

[Disney Irish]

While I doubt Pandora would go there I wouldn't be surprised if Grizzly Peak gets a cheap retheme to Gravity Falls, Up, or another IP that would allow them to keep the Grand Californian without much changes.

Redwood Creek is already sort of themed to Up as it is today, previously it was Brother Bear. So there is already IP theming in Grizzly Peak but just not in your face about it.

 

[October82]

This may getting too far away from the thread, but are we sure that he recognized or even cared about this? I don’t see the Americana in Fantasyland or Tomorrowland 1955, and I imagine the motivation for Frontierland was heavily influenced by Knott’s already existing ghost town and the high popularity of westerns (including Disney’s own series) at the time.

Yes, it's quite clear that he recognized and cared about this.

Disneyland is your land. Here age relives fond memories of the past, and here youth may savor the challenge and promise of the future. Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams, and the hard facts that have created America, with the hope that it will be a source of joy and inspiration to all the world.

Disney's love for Americana is well documented and demonstrated throughout his life. Many of his successes, both personal and professional, as well as his questionable ideas (EPCOT city) are attributable to it.

 

[AZDLR]

Gravity Falls, I always forget what that is. I thought about UP but the boy being a boy scout is a pretty weak connection. I don’t think there is a slam dunk IP for Grizzly Peak at the moment. Id take Country Bears over the field but then you still have Soarin. The Country Bears and Grizzly Peak I think would be a good marriage and be good for the park. Being the nostalgic land that gives the warm n fuzzies on two fronts. Being the last original land at DCA and bringing back the bears to DLR. But I don’t know think they would be strengthening the CBJ theme at Hungry Bear if this was the plan.

I always thought if they were to retheme grizzly river that Lion King would be an easy option kind of like what they are doing with Splash Mountain in Paris. You can add different characters throughout with animatronics and through in some sound bites etc and not have to change the essence of the attraction at all.

 

[mickEblu]

I always thought if they were to retheme grizzly river that Lion King would be an easy option kind of like what they are doing with Splash Mountain in Paris. You can add different characters throughout with animatronics and through in some sound bites etc and not have to change the essence of the attraction at all.

Seamless