Some FastPass+ attractions eliminating second touch point

[TyrantBoss]

Six people counting heads and noting times on a tablet? If this is yet another cost cutting maneuver, instead of eliminating low-cost, no-benefit cast members, I think you just identified where they could start.

And only two were actually doing any work. One was clicking counts on a clipboard and one was standing next to her supervising. The other four were just watching. Two of those four were holding the trash grabber claw things for some reason. They had absolutely no emotion or interaction with guests. They just watched and almost made us feel uncomfortable.

 

[freediverdude]

I saw a group of teens jump into the fastpass line in the courtyard at Splash the other night, very easy to do now. And then I was the one the CM at the merge point told to wait for a minute after she let them right on through. This kind of thing is what is going to tick people off.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I saw a group of teens jump into the fastpass line in the courtyard at Splash the other night, very easy to do now. And then I was the one the CM at the merge point told to wait for a minute after she let them right on through. This kind of thing is what is going to tick people off.

We will all need to complain to guest relations when we see this happen. And it will happen a lot. Even if stupid Disney management doesn't see it as a big deal, the guests certainly will, so maybe lots of complaints are the only way to get them to see the light.

 

[Rider]

I saw a group of teens jump into the fastpass line in the courtyard at Splash the other night, very easy to do now. And then I was the one the CM at the merge point told to wait for a minute after she let them right on through. This kind of thing is what is going to tick people off.

That has always been easy to do because Splash never used the 2nd band readers.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

We will all need to complain to guest relations when we see this happen. And it will happen a lot. Even if stupid Disney management doesn't see it as a big deal, the guests certainly will, so maybe lots of complaints are the only way to get them to see the light.

I doubt it'll be a big enough problem for anyone to notice. People generally follow the rules. I doubt the prevalence of rule breaking will be enough to make a noticeable impact on the guest experience.

 

[deix15x8]

Maybe I'm trying to give Disney more credit than would be expected from them, but could this be related to the recent magic band enhancements to allow items to detect and interact with the bands from a distance? There's nothing here to say they are doing this, but it seems like it could be possible that they are using that technology to detect people that do and do not have a FP in the FP line at that point. It would work best when combined with the sensors that detect people passing through that point (haven't been since 2013 so I can't remember if it's there) in order to match up the number of valid FPs with the number of people passing through that point. With the large crowds and open space of the first checkpoint this wouldn't be possible, but it seems like it could be done at the second checkpoints.

 

[Sonconato]

For what it's worth, the following is what we have observed so far:

· About 2 months ago at Peter Pan, prior to the second touch point being eliminated, we had just passed the first touch point in the FP line. We had to head toward the Carousel then loop back. Just about halfway back to the second touch point, a small group of people squeezed through the trash cans that were supposedly "blocking" the opening from the standby line. There were two CMs there but they didn't see it. I asked one of them if they had the FPs and they said yes. As soon as they were asked to scan, they had a argument with those CMs and then they were sent out to the exit. They had no FPs, so the second touch point was beneficial.

· About a month ago at Haunted Mansion, also prior to the second touch point being eliminated, the crowds were huge and we had FPs for HM. My husband didn't feel well so he stayed back to wait for us to go on the ride. He waited on the wall at the exit directly across from where the first touch point is located. He watched all of the activity since it was so busy and there were about 5 or 6 CMs at the first touch point, 2 of which were kind of controlling the entrance to the standby. A group of 6 guys were chatting with all the CMs, which happened to be all female, somewhat distracting them. Then, one of the 6 decided to step over the chain from the standby line to the FP line about 3 feet from one of the CMs, totally undetected. The one that made it through must have been able to get on the ride because the other 5 guys ended up waiting for there friend on the wall by my husband and they were still there when we left.

· Last night, a series of events happened in which rides that we had FPs for broke down and the better rides that we preferred to go on, the FP line was way too long. So we decided to go on Small World to see what happens at the end where the screens are to interact with Magic Bands (turns out was not working). Obviously, this is now when the second touch points have been eliminated. We get through the first touch point and just as we turn the first corner heading down the ramp, we see a couple of women step over from the standby line to the FP line. There were 3 CMs at the second touch point which were supposed to be watching and none of them saw this. Shortly after, 3 more from there group shows up and squeezed past us to get to the first 2. Clearly, the second touch point would have corrected this.

· Because of what had just occurred last night, we were curious as to why they are eliminating the second touch point. We asked a few CMs and the following are their responses:

o One of the CMs at the 2nd touch point at Small World that was supposed to be watching, his response was, "I'm not at liberty to say".

o CM at Small World loading the boats, her response was, "I have no idea". We told her the group of 5 that was in front of us had just jumped the line and she didn't know what to say or do.

o CM at the 2nd touch point at Peter Pan, her response was, "this is only to make it easier and flow faster during Spring Break since it is so crowded, it will change back after Spring Break when it is slower".

No idea why they are choosing to close the 2nd touch point, but nor do the CMs IMO. I would agree with others though that it will get worse and a lot of people will get ticked.

 

[Sonconato]

Here's an update from tonight regarding the 2nd touch points:

We had FPs to Haunted Mansion and when we were at the 2nd touch point, we asked the CM why they eliminated this touch point, her response, "I have no idea". This seems to be the most common answer.

On our way out tonight, everybody was waiting for the parade so we lucked out and went into Guest Relations, especially since there was no one in line. We had a few things to ask, one of which was, "why are all of the 2nd touch points covered up and not used"? Since no one was in there, we were speaking to 3 CMs all at the same time, and we couldn't believe what we learned. Not a single one of them even knew that the 2nd touch points weren't being used, let alone, "why" they weren't being used. We give up. Sure hope somebody else has better luck finding out what the heck is going on!

 

[note2001]

Here's an update from tonight regarding the 2nd touch points:

We had FPs to Haunted Mansion and when we were at the 2nd touch point, we asked the CM why they eliminated this touch point, her response, "I have no idea". This seems to be the most common answer.

On our way out tonight, everybody was waiting for the parade so we lucked out and went into Guest Relations, especially since there was no one in line. We had a few things to ask, one of which was, "why are all of the 2nd touch points covered up and not used"? Since no one was in there, we were speaking to 3 CMs all at the same time, and we couldn't believe what we learned. Not a single one of them even knew that the 2nd touch points weren't being used, let alone, "why" they weren't being used. We give up. Sure hope somebody else has better luck finding out what the heck is going on!

It's easier to feign ignorance than it is to acknowledge a problem but say you haven't gotten an answer.

 

[ninjaprincesst]

It's going to be a huge problem, almost every time we ride Space Mountsin. people jump in the fastpass line as well as pirates and Splash and several others.

 

[rct247]

Here's an update from tonight regarding the 2nd touch points:

We had FPs to Haunted Mansion and when we were at the 2nd touch point, we asked the CM why they eliminated this touch point, her response, "I have no idea". This seems to be the most common answer.

On our way out tonight, everybody was waiting for the parade so we lucked out and went into Guest Relations, especially since there was no one in line. We had a few things to ask, one of which was, "why are all of the 2nd touch points covered up and not used"? Since no one was in there, we were speaking to 3 CMs all at the same time, and we couldn't believe what we learned. Not a single one of them even knew that the 2nd touch points weren't being used, let alone, "why" they weren't being used. We give up. Sure hope somebody else has better luck finding out what the heck is going on!

The real answer being spun if for a less confusing Guest experience. Some at attractions were operating this way exclusively all the time like Splash Mountain and Safaris because when they were in operation they couldn't keep the load area full without flooding it with standby guests. Other attractions frequently went to this mode a temporary occurance during peak periods to reduce back ups inside. As a result, people didn't know when they did or didn't need their cards again making it more confusing. To reduce rhe backups and confusions, they have decided that eliminating the second touch all together is better.

Another by product they won't admit to is that this also will allow them to save money on buying replacement hardware when existing hardware fails. They will then start to cannibalize the second set to fix the first set. You can see this already with some old kiosk locations like at the Epcot tip boards and storybook circus. They dont have screens if you look under the covers.

 

[Sonconato]

The real answer being spun if for a less confusing Guest experience. Some at attractions were operating this way exclusively all the time like Splash Mountain and Safaris because when they were in operation they couldn't keep the load area full without flooding it with standby guests. Other attractions frequently went to this mode a temporary occurance during peak periods to reduce back ups inside. As a result, people didn't know when they did or didn't need their cards again making it more confusing. To reduce rhe backups and confusions, they have decided that eliminating the second touch all together is better.

Another by product they won't admit to is that this also will allow them to save money on buying replacement hardware when existing hardware fails. They will then start to cannibalize the second set to fix the first set. You can see this already with some old kiosk locations like at the Epcot tip boards and storybook circus. They dont have screens if you look under the covers.

If what you say is true, then IMHO, this is a failed system because, 1) if they are already having to cannibalize the system when it is this young, it's simply poorly done and 2) usually when something is being cannibalized, it's to keep something in existence using the "band-aid" approach until it is completely replaced with something else. Could this be what is happening?

 

[rct247]

If what you say is true, then IMHO, this is a failed system because, 1) if they are already having to cannibalize the system when it is this young, it's simply poorly done and 2) usually when something is being cannibalized, it's to keep something in existence using the "band-aid" approach until it is completely replaced with something else. Could this be what is happening?

No, they just didn't budget it and fund it correctly. The who thing was starting to cost a lot so they somewhat rushed it out before fining tuning it in hope that thr money would start flowing in. Then it continued to keep costing to boost the wireless networks, hardware, etc.

What about funding for replacements? We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

 

[flynnibus]

Seems like it would make more sense to eliminate the current first touch points and just have the merge be where you validate your FP+, though I guess that would cause some issues with people who have no idea how FP+ works and show up at anytime they please.

Can't do that because there is no where to 'put' the people who are rejected. You need to reject people outside the attraction for that very space and egress problem.

 

[flynnibus]

I never considered the second touch point a bottle neck, that's not where the slow downs seem to occur, so removing them may not have a huge impact.

The second point is not a choke point at all because people have already been filtered and streamlined at the first point. The flow of people through the second checkpoint is well below the threshold of how fast it can process people. It's just like backups on the highway at a merge point. There is no backup once you pass the merge because everyone is already paced and spaced properly. This has nothing to with line movement.

There has to be some other reason not necessarily clear... simplification in implementation or something else.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't see a major impending catastrophe with line jumping, honestly.
.

until the internet starts publishing it as one of those 'ten best kept Disney secrets!'

 

[flynnibus]

Riddle me this, If they just did away with FP+ and only had a standby line.. wouldn't the lines actually move faster without having to "merge" people into a line. It would just be a line that continually moves.

Your problem is your point of reference you are measuring and counting what matters.

The real constraint is the ride itself.. the lines job is just to keep its loading fed at all times. When you have different lines, feeding the load at different ratios, the individual lines will be depleted at different rates.. but the ride's throughput remains the same. If the line 'moves quicker' is just a perception that can depend on a portion of the line, that doesn't actually answer 'what my total wait time was'.

One line moves more uniformly.. but may not be necessarily 'shorter' depending on which line you were comparing to in the first place

TL;DR - Two lines doesn't change ride throughput. Line moving fast or slow does not define your wait time.

 

[flynnibus]

We will all need to complain to guest relations when we see this happen. And it will happen a lot. Even if stupid Disney management doesn't see it as a big deal, the guests certainly will, so maybe lots of complaints are the only way to get them to see the light.

Addressing it means confronting guests.. something Disney doesn't like it's rank and file CMs to do. Disney will turn the cheek and the abuse will continue... just like it always has at Disneyland with chain jumpers.. or the people who send one person ahead and then 2-10 people skip ahead in line to 'catch up with their friend', etc.

 

[xdan0920]

until the internet starts publishing it as one of those 'ten best kept Disney secrets!'

I already wrote up my "Business Insider" piece. They paid me .11 cents, suckers.

 

[Rider]

An update. As of today only some of the attractions at Magic Kingdom have eliminated the 2nd touchpoint.

Still using the 2nd:
Space Mountain
Big Thunder Mountain
Seven Dwarfs

Not using:
Small World
Jungle Cruise
Haunted Mansion

I didn't check any others but there appears to be a pattern as to which they felt they still needed to use it.