5th Gate Announced for 50th Anniversary?

[CaptainAmerica]

5th gate will only happen once they can recoup monies being spent up till about 2025. They got 2 semi-failing parks that are currently in transition and a few hotels yet to build. 5th gate seems a long way off.

They will never build a 5th gate. Never. Their bread-and-butter guest is the American family of 4 and the American family of 4 has a relatively fixed vacation budget and a similarly fixed number of vacation days. A 5th gate would expand WDW beyond what the average family can do in a week but the average family isn't going to stay longer than a week no matter what because they don't have the money or the vacation time. The ROI isn't there because the idea of a "week long vacation" creates diminishing returns when you try to expand beyond that point.

 

[Kamikaze]

More resorts ???.... Disneys already got
Onsite Hotels - Number of Rooms (30,843 Total)

I snipped your list just to keep it shorter.

Yes, they need more resorts. There are plans for at least a couple more 'soon-ish' besides Riviera and the CSR Tower.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

They will never build a 5th gate. Never. Their bread-and-butter guest is the American family of 4 and the American family of 4 has a relatively fixed vacation budget and a similarly fixed number of vacation days. A 5th gate would expand WDW beyond what the average family can do in a week but the average family isn't going to stay longer than a week no matter what because they don't have the money or the vacation time. The ROI isn't there because the idea of a "week long vacation" creates a diminishing returns.

Never say never. A 5th gate would provide a possible solution in getting more families to visit ALL the parks vs visiting MK twice. Alternatively a 5th gate could potentially be the "anti-family" park option; a draw that would steal away one-off park guests that usually visit Uni. The goal is to make Disney the destination instead of a vacation stop where currently 3 day or 5 day visiting families will either repeat a park visit or hop on over to Uni for a day. A 5th gate seems likely at some point and that's not based on fanboy wishing; it's based on the fact that Disney wants to own my pockets and keep me on property as long as possible.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Never say never. A 5th gate would provide a possible solution in having more families visit ALL the parks vs visiting MK twice. Alternatively a 5th gate could potentially be the anti-family park option; a draw that would steal away one-off park guests from visiting Uni. The goal is to make Disney the destination instead of the current 3 day or 5 day where families will either repeat a park visit or hop on over to Uni for day. A 5th gate seems likely at some point and that's not based on fanboy wishing; it's based on the fact that Disney wants to own my pocket and keep me on property as long as possible.

Magic Kingdom has way more to do than you can do in a single day. A fully-developed Epcot (which they're working on) is at least a day and a half. One full day at each of Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom. Half a day for Disney Springs and you're at six full days without taking a single break.

What you're describing is indeed the strategy but they don't need a fifth gate to get there. This was always the plan with Animal Kingdom. Introduce it as a half-day park and then gradually build it out to complete the six day itinerary. The mistake was letting DHS and Epcot get stale along the way, but once the current slate of development is done they'll be operating at a full week capacity with their existing parks.

 

[JIMINYCR]

They will never build a 5th gate. Never. Their bread-and-butter guest is the American family of 4 and the American family of 4 has a relatively fixed vacation budget and a similarly fixed number of vacation days. A 5th gate would expand WDW beyond what the average family can do in a week but the average family isn't going to stay longer than a week no matter what because they don't have the money or the vacation time. The ROI isn't there because the idea of a "week long vacation" creates diminishing returns when you try to expand beyond that point.

Then why add more resorts and more rooms. If people arent vacationing there is no need for more rooms. We never vacation less than 10 days and its usually 2 weeks. International guests dont visit for a few days and as the economy increases so will the American vacation increase back as it once was. Another park with a different experience draws guest back... they may not do all parks at one span of time so they come back. Its returning guests that bring in the money.

 

[Kamikaze]

Then why add more resorts and more rooms. If people arent vacationing there is no need for more rooms. We never vacation less than 10 days and its usually 2 weeks. International guests dont visit for a few days and as the economy increases so will the American vacation increase back as it once was. Another park with a different experience draws guest back... they may not do all parks at one span of time so they come back. Its returning guests that bring in the money.

So does a lot of other things. A $200m or so investment in a 'land' or area of an existing park can clearly draw guests back without the need to spend 10x that to build a park and spread everything (guests, CMs, resources, money) further than it is now.

 

[ChristyKay]

Disney doesn't want you to do everything in one stay. If you looked at everything that was offered by the resort as a whole, there's so much to do I can't even wrap my head around it. And what you're family does in one trip could be completely different than what another family does, even in the same time frame. Everyone's idea of a vacation is different.
A 5th gate may be no where close to becoming reality, but I would never say never.

 

[Matthew Hiester]

As the original poster, this is it kind of discussion I was looking for. I can see the arguments for and against a 5th gate. I think it boils down to money. Does adding a 5th gate increase revenues sufficient to make it worth the huge investment? I agree that doing the existing WDW proprieties in one week is impossible. I think Disney wants people to leave wanting more (i.e., realizing that you can't do it all in one week and you need to come back again). That's part of what brings people back, not just the nostalgia and the "magic." I don't know if a 5th gate will ever happen, but you have to assume that someone in TDC is running some economic models to see what the cost-benefit would be. They don't need to announce anything any time soon; they've already amped up future demand based on all the things they've announced so far. I just wonder (hence my original question) if there will come a time when a 5th gate financially makes sense? Maybe looking for an announcement at the 50th is too soon. I just wonder at what point, if ever, does it make sense? The consensus seems to be no one really knows. But I love the discussion (even if it has happened on these forums before).

 

[SourcererMark79]

I heard from a bus driver they doing a 5th gate very soon and it will be all villians.

Must be the same driver who told me ToT is getting the GotG overlay at DHS.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I heard from a bus driver they doing a 5th gate very soon and it will be all villians.

Not a chance. My driver told me that they are going to jump right to the 8th gate, cause it looks better on paper and 5 & 6 & 7 were going to cost way to much. Having been a bus driver (not Disney) in the past I do have some insider connections and it is important to know that all Bus Drivers receive private e-mails every day from the upper offices in Burbank. Sort of like tweeting... it's the companies first line of communication.

 

[roj2323]

They would be far more likely to bulldoze and replace Blizzard Beach before they would build another park.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

A 5th gate eh?

 

[tampabrad]

If a 5th gate were to open in 4 years, we would have heard something about it by now. Land clearing would have begun.

What was announced already is pretty big. I just can't see star wars and toy story lands, star wars resort, Coronado tower, Riviera resort, skyliner, 2 attractions in epcot, Tron coaster. I just can't see a park being built at the same time.

 

[Seanual757]

The biggest thing I always come back to is what would the 5th gate theme be? I feel like we need a couple more new resorts before we even start discussing a 5th gate.

5th Gate if ever built IMHO would be like California Adventure and add more thrill rides. Trust me Disney knows that families are leaving the property to head to Universal for 1-2 days and if they could keep the guests on Disney property it makes sense for a 5th Gate and more thrill rides.

Never rule it out it they will have to do something to keep folks coming back. Universal had 2 large land purchases in Orlando one across the street at the Dr. Phillips HS and the other is down the street from my work off Universal Blvd & Destination Pkwy. Lots of Universal survey crews on the new site the past 2 weeks and they already announced close to a dozen hotels for that area (we have the plans for 7 of them) and all are going to be Universal hotels.

Disney will respond they will have to.

 

[Goofyernmost]

5th Gate if ever built IMHO would be like California Adventure and add more thrill rides. Trust me Disney knows that families are leaving the property to head to Universal for 1-2 days and if they could keep the guests on Disney property it makes sense for a 5th Gate and more thrill rides.

Never rule it out it they will have to do something to keep folks coming back. Universal had 2 large land purchases in Orlando one across the street at the Dr. Phillips HS and the other is down the street from my work off Universal Blvd & Destination Pkwy. Lots of Universal survey crews on the new site the past 2 weeks and they already announced close to a dozen hotels for that area (we have the plans for 7 of them) and all are going to be Universal hotels.

Disney will respond they will have to.

They don't have to at all. Uni still has a lot of catching up to do in all areas. Disney is aware of their presence there, but, are not losing any sleep over it. If they do lose some business they have their own actions partially to blame. Once they require that you buy tickets for your stay with no ability to use them later, (non-expiration) the part they forgot is that many people will buy fewer days because they might want to see some of the thousands of other things that Florida has to offer. And frankly, people are fools to not want to see other things anyway. Disney is great, but, it isn't the only fun place to be in that world of entertainment called Central Florida.

 

[KCheatle]

Welcome to the boards!! I never say never with WDW (for better or worse), but logistically, I don't think it would be possible to build a 5th gate before the 50th. If they were going to do it "because it's the 50th," they would not open it after the 50th- it would open contemporaneously. The fact that we haven't seen any permits, ground clearing (massive ground clearing), etc., pretty much solidifies it's not happening for the 50th

 

[Thebolt]

Lucasarts/film gave them the IPs to create a 5th gate (Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Grim Fandango, Labyrinth, Howard the Duck, Monkey Island etc.) but Disney didn't decide on that approach.
A 5th gate gives them nothing any time soon, whilst there is lower hanging fruit for them to target. The Studios is going to see incredible crowd growth for the next decade off Star Wars... Epcot has huge potential growth... Animal Kingdom is addressing the need to open longer; but still needs more changes.
They will get better returns off rooms than gates for a few years yet.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I say somewhere between possible to likely that at the MASSIVE press event/celebration on Oct. 21, 2021, they announce a 5th gate to open in 2027ish.

Here are a few reasons why.

1. They will just be finishing up doing some MAJOR additions to all the parks. That would be a good time to let them go back on quasi-auto-pilot (not you DHS) while they focus on the 7th gate.

2. Universal's plan for the foreseeable future is to bookend everything Disney does with something big. They are coming at SWL with their 2 hugest IPs. They are opening the new Potter: Forbidden Forest expansion right before SWL and Super Nintendo World right after in 2020. That is also conveniently right before WDW's 50th. Universal wants to open their 3rd gate expansion right after the 50th in 2022.

3. The whole thing about "too many parks for the domestic market to do in a week" went out the window when Universal became a must do for a lot of central FL visitors.

 

[Kamikaze]

What was announced already is pretty big. I just can't see star wars and toy story lands, star wars resort, Coronado tower, Riviera resort, skyliner, 2 attractions in epcot, Tron coaster. I just can't see a park being built at the same time.

And we know there are other projects which are yet to be officially announced but are coming.

 

[Kamikaze]

2. Universal's plan for the foreseeable future is to bookend everything Disney does with something big. They are coming at SWL with their 2 hugest IPs. They are opening the new Potter: Forbidden Forest expansion right before SWL and Super Nintendo World right after in 2020. That is also conveniently right before WDW's 50th. Universal wants to open their 3rd gate expansion right after the 50th in 2022.

So you're saying that they are going to finish Potter 3 (or is it Pott3r ?) in less than two years? They haven't even started anything on it yet. I very much doubt that is the case.

Super Nintendo World isn't going to open in Florida in 2020. The Japan version is opening early 2020 (so its open for the Olympics in the Summer) and it is exclusive to Japan for at least a year, possibly two. So thats 2021 or 2022.

And if they ARE planning on a third gate, it makes no sense to tear down an area of either existing park to put Nintendo in when they could build from scratch for the new park if they are looking at 2022. What I mean is - if the earliest they could open Nintendo land is 2021, and they want a park for 2022, it doesn't make any sense to overhaul and open a section of an existing park a year before you open a new park. You would save that land and that hype for the new park.

I know you're a Universal fan, but none of these things you laid out here will be accurate in terms of timing. And at least one may never happen.