2020 Dues

Club Cooloholic

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
eliza61nyc said:
Ouch is right, although I'm at the Beach club. 1.76%

Wonder why OKW and Boulder ridge got hit so hard.
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My guess is that OKW, with all it's different buildings, not much being centralized, requires more maintenance than most other properties save for SSR. It has a lot of grass, ponds and streets and parking. Also it is a bit older so maybe some of the windows roofs have started to need replacing?
Boulder Ridge I don't really understand, other than maybe some of the improvements(pool etc) have taken time to calculate and come into the dues?
 
S

seascape

Well-Known Member
I have points at SSR, BWK, CC and GF. I have no problem with these increases because the Cast Members really deserve the increase in pay and I have a hard time believing that any of us DVC members can't afford this.
 
John park hopper

John park hopper

Well-Known Member
So whatever money they have in reserve it's a given they will spend it all down to the last penny in any renovations they do, not much incentive to get the most bang for your buck when there is an endless supply of cash flowing in. Are these increases really going for pay increases?
 
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correcaminos

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
JaxFLBear said:
The reserves are constantly being replenished. The amount going into it doesn't spike just because they've completed a refurbishment.

AFAIK, no one has identified the specific reasons why the OKW dues went up as much as they did.
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This. No explaining for BRV either. People are complaining that SSR went up higher than most too due to the refurb but really this shouldn't happen. It also wouldn't explain the historical rise for OKW of late
 
Phonedave

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
John park hopper said:
So whatever money they have in reserve it's a given they will spend it all down to the last penny in any renovations they do, not much incentive to get the most bang for your buck when there is an endless supply of cash flowing in. Are these increases really going for pay increases?
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Dues cover actual costs. Costs are independently audited every year to make sure things are being managed correctly. You can argue about how well things are audited, and if there is poor management going on (as opposed to outright illegal activity) but this is how things are supposed to work.

A capital fund is established based on multi-year outlooks (e.g. we need to repave 10% of the lots every 5 years, we need to replace a roof every 25 years, etc) and capital accounts are funded based on these estimates. They are never drawn down to zero, there is a constant stream in inflow and outflow with an annual review of anticipated expenditures and the contaminate funding.

The operations of the resort are audited each year. Items such as business relationships, arms length transactions, and GAAP are reviewed. Expenditures are checked to make sure they are in line with current markets.

Finally, DVC has an incentive to keep costs in check. Lower costs mean lower dues, lower dues mean both easier sales, and more satisfied existing customers (who also will have a marginal amount more of cash to spend at WDW)

-dave
 
Phonedave

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
M&M fan said:
I see this becoming a problem for some owners and seeing how the owners reacted about the points allocation bungle a year or so back, this won't come to pass either. Somebody's going to get smart and get a lawyer on it and it will hopefully be reduced back to what it is. Disney is just passing on the cost of the raising of the CM's wages onto the customer instead of paying it themselves. The greed knows no end with the Disney company and I myself am really starting to question why I continue to go to Disney World. I do feel I am wasting my hard earned money at times and both my husband and I have looked into selling our two contracts. Somebody somewhere will try to prevent this from happening though. Even if it starts right away next year, there's always the "throwing it out and people getting their money back" tactic to start. And there's also the tactic of "if you've payed your contract off and it's just the dues you're paying, don't pay them" tactic. I really wonder if every DVC owner protested and didn't pay on their contracts or the dues would it hurt them finally? Because Riviera sure isn't selling the way they thought and they lost on Aulani too. They need our money to keep this thing going and if we all quit paying, plus nobody decided to buy a contract, whether it's new or resale, will that finally get them to stop? It's starting to get out of hand and I really think this is a payback for people complaining and basically putting a stop to that point allocation situation last year. I mean, what gives? They're already having problems with both of the Galaxy's Edge not bringing in the number of tourists they thought would be, attendance is down a good bit at both parks as well and then you've got all this negativity with Disney + not working yesterday at launch, making a lot of people mad, and then you've got the Skyliner incident which we already know should have never been built in the first place, given Florida's climate and penchant for storms, it goes on and on. Bob Iger needs to leave the company. He is a pure disgrace to the Disney company. As for this dues increase, I think somebody will lawyer up and it will either disappear or we'll start paying at first but then get the difference back after a lawyer threat. Something's got to give and Disney needs to change.
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Just to let you know how dues work.

Dues, by law, cover the operating expenses and only the operating expenses of the resort.

If the salary of the CMs go up, then your dues have to go up. If the property taxes go up, then your dues have to go up. DVC does not, and is not allowed to, make any profit off of dues. It is a pass through of expenses.

Now you can make an argument as to how the expenses are managed. You can say there are too many front desk employees, or that a pool refurbishment was not necessary, or that free DVD rentals should no longer be available. But, if CM salaries go up across the board, then dues have to go up as well, unless offset by savings somewhere else. DVC cannot just eat the cost.

As far as not paying your dues, check your contract. Once you are in arrears for a certain amount of time, your points will be embargoed, and will eventually be used for cash guests. In this case DVC will most certainly make a profit as the cash price of a room they can rent out will exceed the dues you are not paying. You will also have the joy of having your credit rating destroyed.

For the record, I agree that much of what goes on at WDW is a blatant cash grab, but DVC dues are not a revenue vehicle for WDW. Dues are very much regulated by law.




-dave
 
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Club Cooloholic

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
John park hopper said:
So whatever money they have in reserve it's a given they will spend it all down to the last penny in any renovations they do, not much incentive to get the most bang for your buck when there is an endless supply of cash flowing in. Are these increases really going for pay increases?
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I kinda feel the pay increase is a bit of a scapegoat. I would be very curious to know how they judge how much a DVC owner is responsible for staff that works in not just DCV but the hotel as well. For instance at Boardwalk there has to be a decent amount of crossover.
BTW
"if you've payed your contract off and it's just the dues you're paying, don't pay them" tactic.
What is this tactic? Wouldn't you lose your contract if you stopped paying dues?
 
eliza61nyc

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
M&M fan said:
I see this becoming a problem for some owners and seeing how the owners reacted about the points allocation bungle a year or so back, this won't come to pass either. Somebody's going to get smart and get a lawyer on it and it will hopefully be reduced back to what it is. Disney is just passing on the cost of the raising of the CM's wages onto the customer instead of paying it themselves. The greed knows no end with the Disney company and I myself am really starting to question why I continue to go to Disney World. I do feel I am wasting my hard earned money at times and both my husband and I have looked into selling our two contracts. Somebody somewhere will try to prevent this from happening though. Even if it starts right away next year, there's always the "throwing it out and people getting their money back" tactic to start. And there's also the tactic of "if you've payed your contract off and it's just the dues you're paying, don't pay them" tactic. I really wonder if every DVC owner protested and didn't pay on their contracts or the dues would it hurt them finally? Because Riviera sure isn't selling the way they thought and they lost on Aulani too. They need our money to keep this thing going and if we all quit paying, plus nobody decided to buy a contract, whether it's new or resale, will that finally get them to stop? It's starting to get out of hand and I really think this is a payback for people complaining and basically putting a stop to that point allocation situation last year. I mean, what gives? They're already having problems with both of the Galaxy's Edge not bringing in the number of tourists they thought would be, attendance is down a good bit at both parks as well and then you've got all this negativity with Disney + not working yesterday at launch, making a lot of people mad, and then you've got the Skyliner incident which we already know should have never been built in the first place, given Florida's climate and penchant for storms, it goes on and on. Bob Iger needs to leave the company. He is a pure disgrace to the Disney company. As for this dues increase, I think somebody will lawyer up and it will either disappear or we'll start paying at first but then get the difference back after a lawyer threat. Something's got to give and Disney needs to change.
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So @Phonedave gave a pretty good explanation of how pretty much our dues work so won't repeat that. but I think you've got a whole lot of vents crossed.

Now "not paying" your dues is a stupid tactic and the only thing it does is get you in a losing situation. Next, exactly what message do you want to send with the protest? the skyliner, disney plus, galaxy's edge are all situations that have nothing to do with our dues.
The negativity with disney plus is pretty much standard with any new launch. too many folks flooded the system and it couldn't handle it. which is pretty much a better situation than not enough people signing up.

Of course Disney is passing on the cost to the consumer?? have you heard of any company that didn't pass on cost to the consumer?? the cost of wheat goes up, the cost of your bread goes up. the price of a barrel of oil goes up, the price at the pump goes up. heck gas prices can rise simply on the type of blend being refined.

so to answer your question, would our dues stop rising if folks stopped paying their dues? absolutely not.
 
nickys

nickys

Premium Member
Lensman said:
We'll have to wait for the actual financial report to come out. It will detail every dollar spent in the past year and forecast for next year.
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Just had a look at my email for the Condo meeting. At the end of it there was a summary for Bay Lake, with details of expenditure etc.

You might want to check the emails you got, I assume everyone got one for each home resort.
 
correcaminos

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
nickys said:
Just had a look at my email for the Condo meeting. At the end of it there was a summary for Bay Lake, with details of expenditure etc.

You might want to check the emails you got, I assume everyone got one for each home resort.
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This is the first year I've ever gotten an email. 2 home resorts. 1 email but with links for the info. I saw a link for last year's info as well.

So if this is the norm on getting emails it's new for me and it means not all will get them given how poor they are at getting info out via email. I never get anything outside of my reservations until this came.
 
JaxFLBear

JaxFLBear

Well-Known Member
helenabear said:
This is the first year I've ever gotten an email. 2 home resorts. 1 email but with links for the info. I saw a link for last year's info as well.

So if this is the norm on getting emails it's new for me and it means not all will get them given how poor they are at getting info out via email. I never get anything outside of my reservations until this came.
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You have to opt in to get the condo meetings notices by email. If you don't opt in, they will snail mail them.
 

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