MK Piston Peak and Villains Land Construction Thread

[Jambo Dad]

I'm not disputing what you are saying, but I'm disputing Disney's logic at the time.
They weren't going to put a PotC in WDW because of Florida's geographic location puts it near the Caribbean?
That's ridiculous.

I have read that too.

 

[britain]

I’ve always thought that the whole “Florida already has enough Caribbean/Pirate stuff so let’s do Western River Expedition” logic has been retold incorrectly.

Marc Davis WANTED to do WRE as a big way to top Pirates AND compensate for no Painted Desert / Rainbow Caverns at WDW. Put the “we’re too close to the Caribbean” line more in the context of someone making a “Don’t you think East Coasters would LOVE more Wild West stuff” pitch.

Plus remember, at the time of designing the Magic Kingdom, Pirates of the Caribbean was synonymous with New Orleans Square in the mind of a lot of imagineers. And it would seem odd to build a fake New Orleans one state away from the real one. It was only when the crowds demanded that Pirates was added to WDW that Davis said “Fine, but let’s reimagine the whole first act setting.”

 

[lazyboy97o]

It was an afterthought, if I'm reading you correctly. If you want my summary of someone else's research of the hearsay and such: WED had no intention of putting Pirates into WDW initially. Florida was near the Caribbean; it wasn't really novel for where WDW is. They were going to build Western River Expedition, considered by many of us nerds to be Marc Davis's unrealized masterpiece, where BTMRR is now. It was basically "POTC, but cowboys" since the Western Frontier was more "exotic" for lack of a better word.

POTC was built in a bit of a rush after the park opened because people were asking for it. At the time, WRE was still very much intended to be built, so Marc didn't want POTC to compete with it. He redesigned POTC to make a shorter, faster, less atmospheric version. My read of things is that his intention was to fit all of the vibes and such into WRE.

WRE got scrapped due to a combination of factors: POTC taking some of the budget and being similar, the Energy crisis, and Tony Baxter apparently doing some politicking to get his ride BTMRR built on the same ground. I'm not saying Tony killed WRE, mind you; some people like to rag on this person or that. But the point is the ride was killed by a thousand cuts, one of which was the half-baked POTC that was built.

Nobody was trying to make a lesser version of Pirates of the Caribbean. The Magic Kingdom version was created with the intent of it being a tighter and more cohesive narrative, how they’d do it without the design constraints of a site selected for a walkthrough.

Thunder Mesa always included a rain away mine train ride. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad wasn’t a pitch to build one portion of the bigger complex that had been originally planned.

later they built an park themed to the exotic locations in California in….. California. The Anaheim themed area was extremely realistic!!!

There is no “they”. The people who chose the attractions for the Magic Kingdom were not at the Aspen retreat.

 

[DisneyHead123]

You are correct!

It was planned as a part of the original 1971 Fantasyland ride lineup but budget dictated that the California lineup would be best.

Sleepy Hollow was the replacement for “Mr. Toad”. I think Sleeping Beauty was also planned?

I am in my “Put my cellphone in the toaster and that bread I was holding in my purse” era, ha ha, so glad my bleary brain didn’t make that up. It seems like it would make a fantastic dark ride!

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

There is no “they”. The people who chose the attractions for the Magic Kingdom were not at the Aspen retreat.

“They” referring to the same parent company. Thought that would be obvious.

 

[Spideeey_24]

I want Nightmare Before Christmas so badly if we’re getting a non-villain spooky IP attraction. I want to experience the feeling when Jack get shot down by the military!

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I want Nightmare Before Christmas so badly if we’re getting a non-villain spooky IP attraction. I want to experience the feeling when Jack get shot down by the military!

Really hoping for a prescence as well. Tbh it could do well as a traditional Fantasyland type dark ride. Maybe even bringing back a modern busbar (they prob wouldn't since people would just call it cheap)

 

[britain]

Really hoping for a prescence as well. Tbh it could do well as a traditional Fantasyland type dark ride. Maybe even bringing back a modern busbar (they prob wouldn't since people would just call it cheap)

Burton might actually prefer it if it were a cheaper ride system, and he has to sign off on all things NBC.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I want Nightmare Before Christmas so badly if we’re getting a non-villain spooky IP attraction. I want to experience the feeling when Jack get shot down by the military!

If they wanted to emphasize the flying element, they could make this the spooky, modern day, “dark side” twin to Peter Pan. That could actually be incredibly charming.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Really hoping for a prescence as well. Tbh it could do well as a traditional Fantasyland type dark ride. Maybe even bringing back a modern busbar (they prob wouldn't since people would just call it cheap)

I mean, Encanto is going to be a busbar

 

[ctrlaltdel]

Just catching up with everything. Would be really nice for Villains to finally break the meta of building two large rides with quick service in "major expansions." I think if they really go all out of this one, it will payback in a big way. Learn from the mistakes of Galaxy's Edge (no table service, no supporting ride(s)). It is a good sign for the start of the D'Amaro era at least.

Still insane to me how Galaxy's Edge turned out, they left a lot of money on the table simply by not having table service.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I’m hearing the initial plans for Villains Land have been scrapped. Imagineers have been told to think of bigger, bolder ideas. Budget secondary.

Not sure if this is “new players, new game” re: Josh as CEO.

We had done an armchair imagineering episode of our show when this was announced and the idea we kept coming back to was an attraction that recreated scenes from other attractions, except the villains take over. It ended with the villains in the Cinderella Castle suite. I have no idea how this could be pulled off, but if you want to think big, that's one trope that could work.

I suspect the initial plan was a coaster and an enhanced motion vehicle (a la the Avengers E-Ticket).

With all that said, the plans that have been filed as of now don't indicate that much has changed. If it has, that's "very new" and the public water plans very well may have to be scrapped as well.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Those that are wishing for the Nightmare before Christmas either are local residences that can go to the parks anytime they want or don't realize how many months are lost doing that semi-popular overlay. I took the opportunity years ago when a weather situation let me go to Anaheim instead to see the only thing I was looking forward too. I wanted to see exactly, up close and personal, how Disneyland's HM compared to WDW's.

The opportunity happened to fast to do my research so to arrive in Disneyland only to find that the ride was closed while they put in a venue that I never really liked (Nightmare). That happened about about 18 years ago and it still bothers me. Disneyland can be thought of as a local park which allows them to make a major change like that tolerable. WDW is a world park and people cannot always plan a trip based on the timing of an overlay. Want to know how that would go over, think 25th Anniversary Castle Cake. So many of you people are still complaining about that. If I want to see (I don't) the Nightmare overlay instead of HM, I will travel to California. It need not be in Orlando.

 

[lazyboy97o]

ith all that said, the plans that have been filed as of now don't indicate that much has changed. If it has, that's "very new" and the public water plans very well may have to be scrapped as well.

The water management plans don’t have specific building locations. They designate the entire area as impervious and therefore allow buildings to be placed anywhere in the park or lay down yards.

 

[Coaster Lover]

I do get the sense that the “think bigger” happened late last year or early this year.

So recent, but not so recent that the recent permits/filings that suggest where the major buildings would be would (currently) be inaccurate? We should assume that those filings align with whatever these "new" plans are?

 

[britain]

Those that are wishing for the Nightmare before Christmas either are local residences that can go to the parks anytime they want or don't realize how many months are lost doing that semi-popular overlay. I took the opportunity years ago when a weather situation let me go to Anaheim instead to see the only thing I was looking forward too. I wanted to see exactly, up close and personal, how Disneyland's HM compared to WDW's.

The opportunity happened to fast to do my research so to arrive in Disneyland only to find that the ride was closed while they put in a venue that I never really liked (Nightmare). That happened about about 18 years ago and it still bothers me. Disneyland can be thought of as a local park which allows them to make a major change like that tolerable. WDW is a world park and people cannot always plan a trip based on the timing of an overlay. Want to know how that would go over, think 25th Anniversary Castle Cake. So many of you people are still complaining about that. If I want to see (I don't) the Nightmare overlay instead of HM, I will travel to California. It need not be in Orlando.

But a unique Nightmare attraction will make the threat of the nightmare-mansion-overlay in Florida disappear forever. You should welcome that, even if you aren’t interested in the Nightmare ride itself.

 

[Touchdown]

My armchair imagineering ride would be a boat ride with the villains planning to corrupt other rides to gather minions in order to storm the castle. Ride principals would be Jafar, Captain Hook, Dr Faciller, Hades, and Malnificent. Ride scenes would be Jungle Cruise (Jafar enchants the animals,) PotC (Hook convinces the Pirates to fight with promise of treasure,) TBA (Dr Faciller’s friends possess the critters,) iasw (Hades reveals to the world that this ride is part of his domain, and the children his servants,) Fantasyland Cortyard (battle scene with various hero’s facing off against the villain army,) Castle (Sorcerer Mickey, Fairy Godmother, Three Fairies, Merlin and Genie all fight Malnificent the Dragon,) Victory scene of all the Villains being sent back to villain land and banished from the MK while the others are returned to their ride with a memory wipe.

Will never happen, but that’s my dream ride. Way too meta, and way too risky (could make young children afraid of those other rides.)

 

[Goofyernmost]

But a unique Nightmare attraction will make the threat of the nightmare-mansion-overlay in Florida disappear forever. You should welcome that, even if you aren’t interested in the Nightmare ride itself.

By itself would work but not as an overlay. Then, as a stand alone attraction, I would have to say "golly Josh" that is much better!

 

[lentesta]

So recent, but not so recent that the recent permits/filings that suggest where the major buildings would be would (currently) be inaccurate? We should assume that those filings align with whatever these "new" plans are?

Good question.

I think the coaster is still in the mix. And I think the thing that looks like a train station is a train station.

I suspect - and I could be wrong here - that a lot of the new direction is like this:

- Previous concept had a coaster. New direction is to "plus it". So it's still a coaster.
- Previous concept had an indoor ride. New direction is to think bigger/better. So (and I'm spitballing here) perhaps WDI was thinking "Runaway Railway" and management is more like "Rise of the Resistance".
- Same thing for dining and entertainment.

I'm approaching this from two angles:

- What's gonna sell Lightning Lane Multi Pass and Single Pass?
- How are we making this friendly to parents with small children?

So given the above, the coaster concept probably ends up as a Tier 1 LLMP. (Depending on the ride opening cadence, it might be LLSP to start. But I get the sense that it's not the long-term LLSP.)

The indoor ride, if it's going to be re-imagined as "bigger/better" would be the LLSP.

I'm on the fence about whether these two rides, by themselves, are enough for those parents with small children. So we could see a break from "new lands are two rides, a restaurant, and gift shops."

 

[Brer Oswald]

My armchair imagineering ride would be a boat ride with the villains planning to corrupt other rides to gather minions in order to storm the castle. Ride principals would be Jafar, Captain Hook, Dr Faciller, Hades, and Malnificent. Ride scenes would be Jungle Cruise (Jafar enchants the animals,) PotC (Hook convinces the Pirates to fight with promise of treasure,) TBA (Dr Faciller’s friends possess the critters,) iasw (Hades reveals to the world that this ride is part of his domain, and the children his servants,) Fantasyland Cortyard (battle scene with various hero’s facing off against the villain army,) Castle (Sorcerer Mickey, Fairy Godmother, Three Fairies, Merlin and Genie all fight Malnificent the Dragon,) Victory scene of all the Villains being sent back to villain land and banished from the MK while the others are returned to their ride with a memory wipe.

Will never happen, but that’s my dream ride. Way too meta, and way too risky (could make young children afraid of those other rides.)

They wouldn’t do this because every time they change a land/ride, they’d also have to change this attraction.