EPCOT Figment, well, to be replaced by Figment

[jah4955]

They still haven't fully restored the Tiki Room the fountain in the center is still missing.

yeahhhhhhhhh...you just made my point again! I was so happy the Iago one was gone I forgot about the fountain (which is probably what they were hoping for!)

 

[FigmentFan82]

There was a time when Disney would enhance something and that would just be expected. Nowadays they send out a press release describing in detail every random move they make and act like it's news.

It’s called marketing, and every company does it, especially in this modern age when you can basically put an ad up online for free

 

[jah4955]

It’s called marketing, and every company does it, especially in this modern age when you can basically put an ad up online for free

I don't think many would dispute that historically Disney has been one of the all-time masters of marketing.

Yet all this overwhelming detail?

I remember being given this analogy in graduate school:

You go to a friend's home for a dinner. The dinner was amazing. But the enjoyment ends when your host goes into a long discourse about every detailed step behind making that meal.

"we lopped off the head, then we plucked the feathers, then we removed the entrails...then we.....

I know I know...virtually no one gets their poultry this way...but it is mind-numbing to hear all the other details people typically make in meal preparation.

 

[FigmentFan82]

I don't think many would dispute that historically Disney has been one of the all-time masters of marketing.

Yet all this overwhelming detail?

I remember being given this analogy in graduate school:

You go to a friend's home for a dinner. The dinner was amazing. But the enjoyment ends when your host goes into a long discourse about every detailed step behind making that meal.

"we lopped off the head, then we plucked the feathers, then we removed the entrails...then we.....

Who knows man
Maybe one day the temperature of the porridge will be just right

 

[HMF]

yeahhhhhhhhh...you just made my point again! I was so happy the Iago one was gone I forgot about the fountain (which is probably what they were hoping for!)

They literally had dug out the original blueprints and were supposedly set to re-build it before the budget got cut by TDO, apparently.

 

[HMF]

I don't think many would dispute that historically Disney has been one of the all-time masters of marketing.

Yet all this overwhelming detail?

I remember being given this analogy in graduate school:

You go to a friend's home for a dinner. The dinner was amazing. But the enjoyment ends when your host goes into a long discourse about every detailed step behind making that meal.

"we lopped off the head, then we plucked the feathers, then we removed the entrails...then we.....

I know I know...virtually no one gets their poultry this way...but it is mind-numbing to hear all the other details people typically make in meal preparation.

Exactly, it is widely said that if people knew how the meat industry works, everyone would be a vegetarian.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

They literally had dug out the original blueprints and were supposedly set to re-build it before the budget got cut by TDO, apparently.

There def needs to be more accountability on whoever is managing TDO or has been managing them for a while now. That is ridiculous. Being cheap for no good reason, the same attraction at DL has been able to manage perfectly without any of the cuts WDW’s received, when Disneyland in general hasn’t been managed that way for decades, infact they’ve been the opposite. Don’t forget too, Tiki Room has continued to sell big in merch to this day. And to add onto this, Country Bear Musical Jamboree has enhancements to the spfx & upgrades done to the audio-animatronics themselves aswell as the audio system, they didn’t spare expenses as far as I’m aware, so uh.. yeah, That should be a ‘MAJOR’ concern to anyone who takes this company and their business seriously. TDO should be treated to the same quality standards as TDA in respect to thematic & design integrity of each park, period, aswell as things like maintenance/upkeep

 

[HMF]

That is ridiculous. Being cheap for no good reason, the same attraction at DL has been able to manage perfectly without any of the cuts WDW’s received, when Disneyland in general hasn’t been managed that way for decades,

DL did have a dark period in the late nineties through early aughts. The names Pressler and Harris still send chills down the spines of veteran Disneyland visitors and TDA does occasionally make massive mistakes even though most of the time they are just following orders from Burbank.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Oh, btw, with Tony Baxter appearing at EPCOT tomorrow-this Sunday for EPCOT’s FOTA. Besides simply taking your time to talk to him about his work, thank him for the original Journey Into Imagination pavilion and Dreamfinder & Figment, etc… Someone ‘might’ wanna go ahead & ask him personally about that news article I found and ask if it’s at all true that “Tony & his crew” were chosen to head the 02-current revamp of the ride to “Return Figment” or Not, that and show him some of the stuff I found to back up both Figment’s Friend & David Koenig’s claims in his Realityland book, regarding what Disney did to destroy one of he & his team’s most beloved icons (the HISTA queue rope, awning, signage, and monorail spiel shenanigans to then go & mix it all up the ludicrous way they did in ‘99 & ‘Again’ in ‘02) and see if he can confirm if that’s all accurate. Also curious to know what his reaction is to actually seeing the solid proof/evidence of it happening, right in front of his eyes again after all these years of it being hidden/blatantly lied about by Disney. (It was all Kodak and their contract’s fault. Yeeah, screw that). I have a hunch it’ll be incredibly satisfying to him (and everyone else that created that once fantastic ride) . You ‘never’ deserved to have your work & legacy be mishandled the pathetic way it has). We’re all with you Tony & Team. A heck of a lot more people deserve to see & know the ‘real’ story about what all went down here, and I genuinely believe they will.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

I wonder if simply renaming that to ‘Extra-TERROR-estrial Encounter’ would be the best solution for that attraction if ever considered to be brought back.
Anyway.. back to Journey Into Imagination. Regarding signage.. so, if you remember, back during it’s original incarnation days.. during the days they played Magic Journeys & Captain EO, it used to have the main ‘Journey Into Imagination’ presented by Kodak sign outside. And then have 2 signs to the left and right of it respectively. One to the left pointing to the Magic Eye Theatre, the other pointing to the Journey Into Imagination Ride. Both with a simple icon with a description representing what both experiences entailed. At some point though, I think around ‘95 or so they removed these signs and replaced them with one single sign, closer near the Magic Eye Theatre, kinda similar to the current pole guide map thing there now) that said ‘Honey, I Shrunk the Audience’ in big, red text on the top w an arrow pointing left and underneath it, Journey Into Imagination (in white almost translucent pink print I might add, with a black & white (lol, why?) photo of Figment underneath it, on a weirdly more faded looking white square, with an arrow pointing to the right. (I’ll share both here once I find the photos I saved of them).
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Edit: Found them! And they can be seen on (for the original era) Jeff Lange’s site: https://jefflangedvd.com/category/photo-memories/page/4/, and the other Cartarsauce Theatre’s EPCOT ‘96 trip video:

To add to this, here’s the infamous queue rope mentioned in David Koenig’s book Realityland, (besides the new awning, redone signage & monorail spiel to make ‘Honey, I Shrunk the Audience out to be the sole/main attraction in the pavilion) that dropped Journey Into Imagination’s attendance levels enough to get Disney to start looking into the idea of redoing it, as at that time, when looking for ways to try to lower maintenance spending.. that’s the way this pavilion got absolutely desecrated. Funnily enough.. look what they decided to redo the sign outside to and what graphic they put on the new cars. No joke, a diagram of.. ‘the turntable’.. they very conveniently disabled and put hollow flooring over to make way for the 99/02-current load. You just can’t make this stuff up.
PS: another funny story.. one time when I was getting ready to board the current ride a good few years back on another trip I took there.. I happened to meet somebody else heading inside who clearly saw I was a fan by what I was wearing (a bunch of Figment stuff of course) and pointed this detail out to me. Supposedly they’d tried to contact WDI and ask if that’s what it Infact was to confirm.. they got no response. But by golly, that sure as heck is what it looks like Sure is “interesting”, right??:
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TADA!
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Btw: one of these escalators now is behind a cage and the Magic Eye Theater link has been walled off now ever since that ‘99 revamp
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Oh, and yes.. I know I’ve heard before that one of the big reasons the ride was shortened was “for more merchandising space”. Well it’s funny.. cause all that “merchandising space” they’re referencing is, Infact, space allocated for the lousy downgraded “ImageWorks” while (again) the original one is closed upstairs, and the actual 99-current day merchandise spot is roughly (pretty sure) practically in the very same spot it was during its original incarnation, nearly the same amount of merch offered inside and heck, more merch stands/shelves could’ve been added to the original .. ‘and’ get this! The Kodak Camera & Film Shop that sold extra merchandise is now (I believe) a Disney Visa Card Holder exclusive Character Meet & Greet Spot for Mickey & Goofy (lol, really??) , ‘that’ spot once had extra merchandise offered in there (will post photos I’ve saved here as soon as I find them). So yeah.. makes me wonder if that argument was made at the time to deceptively change it the way they did further too, when it’s so obviously not true upon doing the research. (“Hey, it provides bigger merchandising space!” ). And how that horribly (and I mean horribly), ‘the’ worst “upgrade” to a classic ride you could ever see in your life, with total seriousness, provides “more merchandising potential” over the Original, in their minds, is beyond me.
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1:24… in ‘plain sight & sound’ :


The ‘only’ part of the monorail spiel that does this.. “The glass pyramids are your gateway to Journey Into Imagination. Inside you’ll find the 3-D adventure, ‘Honey, I Shrunk the Audience’. Join Prof. Wayne Salinski as he recieves the inventor of the year award for his incredible shrinking machine”. Yeah, “real slick” wording right there… “Inside”. But sure Disney, it was all Kodak. That Kodak sponsorship contract Ya know, the one they were able to honor for all those years with updates to the Magic Eye Theatre like Captain EO (which for those who don’t know, yeah, that starred Michael Jackson, ‘the’ biggest pop star ever.. and who knew.. they didn’t need that awning & queue rope for that show when it was around.. and they sure as heck didn’t need to change the ride during those years) and the updates done to ImageWorks that I mentioned previously in the early 90s, until “suddenly” they weren’t able to anymore… and the laughs just keep on coming ladies & gentlemen. Apparently, they had gotten pushback even ‘before’ this had happened when word got out that Figment, Dreamfinder and the original ride was being removed entirely.. and it was due to pushback he was even utilized as a cameo for the ‘99 renovation and even then.. as of course we all know (and what should’ve been known even then), that kind of nonsense wasn’t gonna end well. LOL
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PS: Gotta love this shirt sold at the time too btw, all things considered… yeah, they “Shrunk Figment” alright. GEEZ :

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[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Here is also a little something from Bob Gibbons, a Kodak exec that worked alongside Tony Baxter on the original Journey Into Imagination and was initially also on Journey Into YOUR Imagination ‘til he got fired off it for “being too disruptive” according to Disney. Lol : https://notredameclassof1969blog.blogspot.com/2023/09/on-journey-into-imagination-with-tony.html?m=1

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According to this article from the Orlando Weekly, it will not be based on Monsters, Inc.(What exactly would Monsters Inc have to do with the Imagination Institute?) But rather, it will revolve around the idea that the Imagination has captured a living "Figment" of the imagination, but he has escaped, and you have to catch him. BTW, its being done by Tony Baxter, one of the Imagineers who designed the original Journey Into Imagination.

The Article:
Those who prefer their dragons non-smoking should know that Future World favorite -- Figment -- definitely will make a comeback. Tired of the endless complaints from Epcot guests about how Disney ruined the original "Journey into Imagination" ride during its 1999 redo, the Imagineers finally are doing something about it. Their first smart move was to assign veteran Imagineer Tony Baxter to undo the damage. Baxter helped create the original version of the Kodak Pavilion ride, and this month he will be honored with a lifetime achievement award from the Themed Entertainment Association in recognition of all the rides, shows and attractions he's dreamed up for Disney over the years. Though Baxter's crew hasn't officially finalized plans, the proposed name for the redo of the redo -- "Figment's Journey into Imagination" -- leaves no doubt about who will be front and center again once the revamped pavilion reopens in the fall of 2003. It's said that Epcot visitors now be will invited into WDW's Imagination Institute to view a most amazing discovery. It seems the Institute has managed to capture a really for-real figment of imagination. But just as guests enter, Figment breaks loose. Their mission is to help recapture the little purple dragon.

So Figment is definately coming back, but so is that Nigel guy from Honey,ISTA...

Go HERE to read the whole thing.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Hate to say.. but I’m not impressed with this new t-shirt.:


I get the caption and it’s fun considering he’s a dragon with wings, but the image honestly looks pretty uninspired & makes no sense when paired with the caption they chose. While I love the fact Figment himself looks perfectly on-model, why is he just a normal, everyday Figment here in the sky rather than him doing something directly themed or dressed for Valentine’s, flapping his 2 tiny wings. For those making merch, keep in mind, he’s mainly about showcasing a generous, passionate kind of love through what he creates and the ideas he thinks up through creative mediums (art, literature, theatre, music, science & technology, & film). If you aren’t sure who exactly Figment is, a read through of the 2024 Little Golden Book & watch of a POV of the Original pre-99 Journey Into Imagination ride is highly reccomended. Even while the 02-current ride’s been open, they’ve been happy to release & include elements of the beloved original ride & characters in new merch as they know they sell the most and that’s what most of us want. There was a specific Valentine’s Day art piece produced in the 80s that could’ve been reused here, surprised they didn’t go with that instead or draw something new or inspired up to fit with the caption. (They did brand new, on model stuff with the Festival of the Holidays stuff last year, right?). They’ve also released better Valentine’s Day themed Figment merch in the past. I’m sure they have plenty of older/saved stock art to use for this stuff, yeah? Seems some of the merch/products department may be in need of some older sparks of inspiration to get back up to the quality & attention to detail we’d expect/come up with some more great stuff.:
Older 80s merch concept art:



Mini figure from the mid 2000s
From the 2024 Little Golden Book, this is the kind of love Figment shares with others. Here of course he’s sharing the love he has for his creator/father, Dreamfinder through creating art of them together to give as a gift.


This 2008 pin is another good example of how to do things. Though, his eyes don’t look right here (his eyelids are mitch-matched so he instead looks devious here as opposed to happy. Lol. The rest of the pin is spot on though):

Some plush from the mid 2000s. (This is how his eyelids should be positioned in most cases)

 

[Haymarket2008]

I think this thread needs a breather.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

I think this thread needs a breather.

Perhaps, but people that genuinely care I think need to be more vocal about standards & quality being lacking lately and how exactly to fix it. The neglect of Journey Into Imagination and its starring characters, Dreamfinder & Figment has been going on for nearly 20+ years now. Hence why I’m even more critical now. It’s been going on far too long to be considered acceptable at this point. They should have more than enough evidence regarding that by now. It’s clear by some of their latest actions & decision making, including some recent social media posts, they don’t know/quite get it. There’s some that do I think, but not enough. So someone needs to make it known to them what’s wrong and suggestions/how to do things right.
They need the extra money, good pr, and actually produce stuff that’ll sell alot more park tickets & gain more profits. And clearly someone’s listening/providing feedback to the rights areas. The Art merch rocked and was similar to ideas I suggested here. Just sayin..

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

I don't think many would dispute that historically Disney has been one of the all-time masters of marketing.

Yet all this overwhelming detail?

I remember being given this analogy in graduate school:

You go to a friend's home for a dinner. The dinner was amazing. But the enjoyment ends when your host goes into a long discourse about every detailed step behind making that meal.

"we lopped off the head, then we plucked the feathers, then we removed the entrails...then we.....

I know I know...virtually no one gets their poultry this way...but it is mind-numbing to hear all the other details people typically make in meal preparation.

I think the key you’re missing here is the platforms the marketing is being done on. The intention now is to generate headlines and clicks and drive views on various social media platforms. The way to do that is to make content that includes enough to detail to hook people into watching or reading it. Their old marketing style is incompatible with the social media age.

Universal does this too if you notice. Just the other day they put out a 5 minute video on their Kids resort.

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

I think the key you’re missing here is the platforms the marketing is being done on. The intention now is to generate headlines and clicks and drive views on various social media platforms. The way to do that is to make content that includes enough to detail to hook people into watching or reading it. Their old marketing style is incompatible with the social media age.

Universal does this too if you notice. Just the other day they put out a 5 minute video on their Kids resort.

Hence why I’m a little more critical about some of the stuff they’ve been putting out, specifically with Figment lately. They like detail and good social media marketing? They want the old fans & new fans back in the parks? Well I think it helps to truly know & care about the source material they’re working with, so it can capture folks’ attention the same way it did us. I’ve rightfully applauded and given due credit when they’ve gotten things right aswell, and that’s what I’ll continue doing when I see it.

 

[jah4955]

Hence why I’m a little more critical about some of the stuff they’ve been putting out, specifically with Figment lately. They like detail and good social media marketing? They want the old fans & new fans back in the parks? Well I think it helps to truly know & care about the source material they’re working with, so it can capture folks’ attention the same way it did us. I’ve rightfully applauded and given due credit when they’ve gotten things right aswell, and that’s what I’ll continue doing when I see it.

One of my favorite, if not the favorite, parts of a Disney vacation as a child were the pleasant, but often relatively-small, "surprises."

If there's no more chance to be surprised (unless you go literally/completely off the grid), than that's one less reason to return imo.

 

[Rodj]

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

Should be a fully animated series for all ages, written in the style of the classic Disney Afternoon shows + New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, with clear love & respect for the original iteration of the ride (and ‘zero’ to do with the current mixed-up Honey I Shrunk themed one). Here’s hoping.. ‘if’ infact it ever is back in the works

 

[FigmentsBrightIdeas]

If it’s ever going to be an animation-live action hybrid. I say go the Wonderful World of Disney route for it, have different segments in it (including an animated, explore a new realm of creativity in a whimsical way ala the way the original ride did it, while solving a problem/problems creatively, in both a funny & charming way (again, think the classic Disney cartoons),going into various creative mediums and how certain things are thought up/produced in the live action segments. (Similar to how Walt did things) Dreamfinder as the host that’s more knowledgeable on the subjects, and Figment as the ever curious & entertained animated (or possibly puppet) pupil. (Aka: The one we remember and love, not the “mischevious nuisance” from the 02-current iteration)