Avatar (the movie) and its Sequels

[Wendy Pleakley]

I'm going to be harsher on Fire and Ash than most I think.

Full disclosure, my attention span for movies is well below what is required for these. I also made the dubious decision of watching it at 10:30 pm (you can do the math on the end time) so I was ready for it to finish at some point because I wanted to sleep.

While those factors give me a bit of a negative bias, I am a fan of the franchise. I saw Way of Water twice in theaters (later showings as well) and thoroughly enjoyed it. I bought the art book. I watched some of the special features for the movie.

I saw part 3 in Laser Ultra 3D with the normal frame rate. I saw part 2 with and without HFR and didn't mind it, but my partner hated it so this is our preferred option. It looks fantastic. The only issue with the 3D is in fast action flying scenes the characters can become a bit of a blur. Maybe those would be better in HFR.

I get that no one goes to Avatar for the story, however with part 2 I was happy just to enjoy the experience. For me, the novelty has worn off a bit and I wanted more out of part 3.

It reminded me of the last Mission Impossible films where they split a solid two-hour story into two bloated movies inexplicably.

Fire and Ash just didn't justify it's run time. It was too much more of the same. They're still hunting whales. The new villains are just there and villainous, and I'm not sure we really know why. There are three hours to develop these things. Was there an existing civil war that the humans exploited? I just don't know.

You can get away with doing the same thing if a lot of time has passed. The Force Awakens fed a desire for old school Star Wars. Audiences could forgive that it loosely remade the original film. Here, Avatar 2 is still fresh in my mind. I wanted something different.

The opening action set piece was good, but a bit of the same. The sequences in the human city were probably the highlight in terms of bringing something new to the films, however they could have taken place on Earth or anywhere else. Does it defeat the purpose not to highlight Pandora? That's more of a nitpick because it was good.

My biggest gripe is with the finale.

Spoiler: Finale

These movies are long. They're short on story and character given their length. Some people don't mind, they like the experience. Some want more. Either way, you're rewarded for your patience with a fantastic action set piece. The final battle in the first Avatar is fantastic, right up there with the Death Star attack in Star Wars for me.

This movie ends with a sequence that mostly just repeats the finale of parts 1 and 2. It gets resolved with the same Pandora as Deux Ex Machina plotline of part 1 where the animals are instructed to save the day.

Was the finale still fun? Sure. Was it bigger and better in some ways? Sure. It wasn't 100% a copy & paste effort but it was still a letdown for a movie series that has been revolutionary in many ways.

If this had the same time gap as before, I'd probably be okay with re-experiencing similar things, but just three years later? No.

Two groups walked out of my showing, so I'm not the only one it didn't connect with as much as the previous installment.

I think I'll enjoy it more on second viewing now that my expectations are in check, but overall it was just too much of the same.

 

[Fox&Hound]

After loving the original and Way of Water, I walked in with anticipation and hope for another great movie and left disappointed. It just felt like Cameron has filmed too much for the second movie and released this as like a director’s cut. Save for a few scenes it felt like the same movie as Way of Water. Each movie had focused on a different environment (jungle tribe, water tribe) so I assumed, as the title would suggest, this would be about the fire people (maybe 10%). I loved their leader but they were significantly underdeveloped. Why did we need more water people? More whale creatures? Even the fights felt the same. Ughh, I really wanted to love it….

 

[DCBaker]

Disney has shared financial highlights for Avatar: Fire and Ash as it officially crosses the $1 billion mark globally:

Key Highlights:

• $ 1.083 billion global gross to date ($306 million domestic / $777.1 million international)
• No. 2 MPA global release of 2025
• No. 2 among the year’s top-grossing MPA international releases with standout results across multiple markets including China ($138 million and the second highest-grossing MPA film of 2025), France ($81 million), Germany ($64 million), and Korea ($44 million)
• Franchise power with three Avatar films delivering a combined global box office total exceeding $6.35 billion to date

'Avatar: Fire and Ash' Surpasses $1 Billion at the Global Box Office - The Walt Disney Company

"Avatar: Fire and Ash" has surpassed $1 billion at the global box office, cementing another achievement for the groundbreaking franchise.

thewaltdisneycompany.com

 

[Disney Analyst]

And this is why they built not just one Avatar land, but are making it…

 

[BrianLo]

And this is why they built not just one Avatar land, but are making it…

View attachment 900764

This passed my litmus test of the corporate Disney website bragging. They are happy.

 

[Phroobar]

After loving the original and Way of Water, I walked in with anticipation and hope for another great movie and left disappointed. It just felt like Cameron has filmed too much for the second movie and released this as like a director’s cut. Save for a few scenes it felt like the same movie as Way of Water. Each movie had focused on a different environment (jungle tribe, water tribe) so I assumed, as the title would suggest, this would be about the fire people (maybe 10%). I loved their leader but they were significantly underdeveloped. Why did we need more water people? More whale creatures? Even the fights felt the same. Ughh, I really wanted to love it….

That wasn't the point of Fire & Ash. Way of Water and Fire & Ash are parts one and two of one story. I would assume Avatar 4&5 are a two part story also.

 

[Phroobar]

And this is why they built not just one Avatar land, but are making it…

View attachment 900764

If your going to build one Death Star, you might as well build two.

 

[DKampy]

I would not be surprised if the actuals for the estimates tic higher for all films tomorrow… I have seen reports expecting a huge drop off on Sunday… it’s purely anecdotal as it is just one theater…. Our usual movie day is Sunday and our theater was extremely busy… did not feel much different to Christmas Day…we saw Song Sung Blue and the only available seats at showtime was the 2 front tows…. Granted we are in Wisconsin so we have a Lighting and Thunder connection here… but it didn’t seem like it was just that movie… it felt like beehive of activity everywhere

What was even more surprising it was a Packer Sunday….. our area usually shuts down during Greenbay games… I can usually expect our local movie theater to be slow during those times also

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

The notion that Avatar 2 & 3 was intended to be a two-part story doesn't invalidate the criticism.

Mission Impossible suffered from the same fate, a two-part finale that could have been one movie and suffered for it.

Avatar takes 6.5 hours to tell a pretty basic story. There's so much time to do more.

Having said that, the story of these movies is less important because they're about the experience and being immersed in the world. I stand by my opinion that the biggest sin of part 3 was the copy and paste finale.

I agree they should have spent time in the fire people's environment. Many big franchise movies of this nature are repetitive, and changing up the scenery is filmmaking 101 in terms of making different installments feel fresh. There's a reason Star Wars went to Hoth and Endor.

Do some action scenes where they're flying through fire ravaged caverns. Throw in some lava. It wouldn't necessarily be groundbreaking but would feel different.

 

[Ghost93]

The notion that Avatar 2 & 3 was intended to be a two-part story doesn't invalidate the criticism.

Mission Impossible suffered from the same fate, a two-part finale that could have been one movie and suffered for it.

Avatar takes 6.5 hours to tell a pretty basic story. There's so much time to do more.

Having said that, the story of these movies is less important because they're about the experience and being immersed in the world. I stand by my opinion that the biggest sin of part 3 was the copy and paste finale.

I agree they should have spent time in the fire people's environment. Many big franchise movies of this nature are repetitive, and changing up the scenery is filmmaking 101 in terms of making different installments feel fresh. There's a reason Star Wars went to Hoth and Endor.

Do some action scenes where they're flying through fire ravaged caverns. Throw in some lava. It wouldn't necessarily be groundbreaking but would feel different.

I think if they eliminated the Tulkun hunting subplot from Fire and Ash (which had already been explored at length in The Way of Water), they could have dedicated more screen time to the Ash people and they could have had the final battle take place somewhere other than the ocean.

 

[Disney Irish]

My guess is that in 4 a new tribe will be introduced as the final antagonist that the Sully family has to go up against and win, and that 5 will culminate in a final battle that has all tribes coming together fight against the RDA and win, forcing them from Pandora permanently.

So all of this is just a build up to that final battle, so whether you call 2/3 as one long movie, its all build up. Cameron is a long winded writer/director.

 

[Fox&Hound]

That wasn't the point of Fire & Ash. Way of Water and Fire & Ash are parts one and two of one story. I would assume Avatar 4&5 are a two part story also.

It was still so repetitive. It failed to move the story forward except for in small ways.

 

[Fox&Hound]

I think if they eliminated the Tulkun hunting subplot from Fire and Ash (which had already been explored at length in The Way of Water), they could have dedicated more screen time to the Ash people and they could have had the final battle take place somewhere other than the ocean.

Yes, I agree completely. This would have been a vast improvement.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I think if they eliminated the Tulkun hunting subplot from Fire and Ash (which had already been explored at length in The Way of Water), they could have dedicated more screen time to the Ash people and they could have had the final battle take place somewhere other than the ocean.

When they spent time on the whale hunting again, that's when I started to realize this movie might not tread as much new ground as I'd hoped.

The plotline of the one human who was opposed to it all paid off somewhat at least.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

My guess is that in 4 a new tribe will be introduced as the final antagonist that the Sully family has to go up against and win, and that 5 will culminate in a final battle that has all tribes coming together fight against the RDA and win, forcing them from Pandora permanently.

So all of this is just a build up to that final battle, so whether you call 2/3 as one long movie, its all build up. Cameron is a long winded writer/director.

Plus all the animals.

Which begs the question, since it has been established on more than one occasion that the animals of Pandora can be commanded to attack the humans, shouldn't they already be forced out?

Cameron may be long winded but he managed to keep his previous epics to one movie. Why he thought this one needed 6.5 hours is beyond me.

 

[Disney Irish]

Plus all the animals.

Which begs the question, since it has been established on more than one occasion that the animals of Pandora can be commanded to attack the humans, shouldn't they already be forced out?

Cameron may be long winded but he managed to keep his previous epics to one movie. Why he thought this one needed 6.5 hours is beyond me.

Well as was seen during this 3rd movie, and alluded to in the previous 2, the animals are sentient, so they have to be convinced.

And its not 6.5 hours, no no, that would be too simple for Cameron. Its going to be 16-17+ hours to tell this saga if it goes the full 5 movies at over 3.25 hours a piece. So what could be done in one 3 hour movie will take almost an entire day to watch in one sitting.

 

[sedati]

Finally got to see this.

If you enjoyed the "Ents are going to war" sequence in "The Two Towers" than this is for you. I loved it.

My one and only complaint is that when the squids rose up I thought we were going to see the Pandoran version of a giant squid and I'm upset they didn't go there.

 

[Figments Friend]

I also just saw the film two days ago, in Dolby 3D.
Been waiting to view it after the crazy Xmas crush was over….and was excited to see it.
I’m a ‘Avatar’ far, and this was a experience I was looking forward to.

Normally I prefer IMAX 3D, but my local theatre didn’t have any earlier showings.
They are already down to two showings for IMAX on weekdays now that the holiday break season is over…
I walked in the lobby and the staff had just destroyed the giant promotional cardboard standee display for ‘Fire & Ash’.
That was…a bit unsettling to see….the thing crushed up and binned already.

But enough about that…my thoughts on the film -

Dolby 3D was excellent.
Amazing, and I mean amazing picture quality and sound.
The film was preceded by a short segment featuring James Cameron stating that the movie was specifically ‘made for Dolby 3D’.
He then went on about all the specifications they strived for to insure we are seeing the film as he originally intended…in this particular format.
Then, it was time for the film to roll.
It was GO time..!


So my thoughts.
Overall, I really enjoyed it…but there were some shortcomings for me.

My biggest ‘complaint’ is there was not enough exploration done regarding the two new Na’vi clans we get to meet as an audience in this film.
Part of the appeal of these films is getting the learn more about the culture and backstories of the new clans and creatures.
‘World building’ adds a lot to stories like this.
Here we had two very interesting and COOL new clans, the Ash Clan and the Windtraders, but the film I felt did not really spend enough time telling and showing us more about them and who they are.
I LOVED the Ash Clan…just a really interesting dynamic there both characters wise and culture wise.
Why was this not explored further..?
Savage yet intriguing….aggresive and off putting yet at the same time beautiful and bewitching.
I wanted MORE of them…and wanted to know more about them.
Same with the Windtraders.
Both seemed a missed opportunity that could have enhanced this movie greatly.

I also felt some ground had already been covered and there was a little repetition in this film.
James likely had his reasons, but for a major fan like me who is familiar with the previous films and characters there were several segments that I felt were not really needed to cover again.
The ocean hunt, several more scenes of kids running through the forest in peril ( again and again…) and of course that final battle that definately reminded me of the prior films similar ending.

Despite all of that, I really enjoyed the film.
Some stunning and truly amazing scenes…eye candy galore, some real visual improvement to how the characters look on screen as well as the various frame rate differences for some scenes. ( very noticeable to me this time ).
The higher frame rate sequences I actually liked, but it was obvious when it switched back to standard.

Varang is still THE absolute standout character and performance.
Absolutely LOVE her.
Amazing character, and design work.
The actress did a fantastic portrayal and my eyes were on her the whole time, wondering what she was going to do next.
Stand out performance.
If we do indeed get a ‘Avatar 4’ I will be glad to see her back.

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