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DAK 'Encanto' and 'Indiana Jones'-themed experiences at Animal Kingdom

AidenRodriguez731

Well-Known Member
Yeah, and Disney has dumbed down it's product and experience to meet these people rather than raised those people up to something better as they used to do in days of 'yore.
Disney would make the Time Masheen if they believed the Idiocracy would pay to go on.
I would not call Maelstrom to Frozen “dumbing down” as Maelstrom wasn’t a good ride. They knew more people would like Frozen and it would be higher rated, woah turns out it is.

Every theme park does this, that’s why coasters are so common. It’s why Universal built the same land with a slightly different themed 3 times in one location and in about every other one of their parks. Popularity sells.
 

Centauri Space Station

Well-Known Member
Yeah, and Disney has dumbed down it's product and experience to meet these people rather than raised those people up to something better as they used to do in days of 'yore.
Disney would make the Time Masheen if they believed the Idiocracy would pay to go on.

Dumhing down by removing the ride that featured a few mannequins in ancient norway, followed by a three headed troll and some animals, then a grand finale of plunging by an oil rig followed by a dated film that was an infomercial?
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
Dumhing down by removing the ride that featured a few mannequins in ancient norway, followed by a three headed troll and some animals, then a grand finale of plunging by an oil rig followed by a dated film that was an infomercial?
Said dated film could have easily been updated. Unfortunately, they took the lazy way out in the end. What happened to Maelstrom was yet another example of Disney intentionally sabotaging an EPCOT attraction to justify creating an IP based replacement just like they did with Imagination and Living Seas.
 

Pizza Moon

Active Member
Maelstrom was a developmental lifetime ago, when it was rushed (honestly fairly impressively for Disney) in less than three years from them realizing the movie was a smash success.

Arrendelle at Hong Kong is a much better land than Tokyos. So there’s that at least. It’s a better ride in Tokyo, but honestly not as much as it should have been. Then there are some choice improvements for Hong Kong that helped FEA.

FEA gets way too much unnecessary flack in my opinion…
I mean yeah, it was ages ago, but it’s still true and they are opening the same ride next year still.

I also I totally disagree about the rest of your assessment. I mean I enjoy the aesthetic of FEA, if it has a real-world wait less than 15-20 minutes I do it, but it is a coin toss between it and Maelstrom in a vacuum if you ignore the arbitrary IP attached because despite it having modern tech and some improvements like a longer track and great queue, the storytelling as a whole is just so weak, and theme parks are a lot more permanent than just tossing something together. Though, given they are still cloning them a decade later, it appears that they actually think their product isn’t very flawed. There’s a reason Mermaid was never cloned again, and it’s not because The Little Mermaid isn’t an elite IP.

I think Pooh at Magic Kingdom is a very clever small-scale dark ride and well executed for what it is, but when you go on Pooh’s Hunny Hunt it’s like holy, what a difference. I don’t think FEA is well executed like TMAOWTP, despite it being smaller in scope and tech, and I don’t think “tech” is enough to lift up a ride’s inherent issues.

I definitely overthink rides, most people will just go on them or whatever, I really view attractions more like a designer, probably too much.

Frozen Journey is in a stratosphere of its own over FEA. The Elsa lift hill scene reminds me of Shanghai Pirates’ Flying Dutchman reveal, the turntables with Anna/Elsa literally makes you feel like the boat itself is a film camera, the ending finale and scenes just being so large and detailed, the pacing, scale, I mean the ice palace is nuts. It is a monumental achievement in themed design, not the best ride ever made, but absolutely a top tier ride in execution and scale, sort of like Radiator Springs Racers or Hagrid’s, maybe a tad bit lower but my point is the gap is huge, it’s not a marginal improvement in scale but totally brilliant execution.

The team that worked on it likely would’ve actually done Princess and the Frog right.

Frozen Journey would easily be the best ride at Magic Kingdom if it opened tomorrow, probably third at Disneyland after Indy and Rise (I guess Pirates too tho I hate the Red Head change). I wouldn’t even put Frozen: Ever After in the top 5 at EPCOT. Even if it was just executed better, just for its smaller scale than it needed alone holds it back.

I don’t really know how to quantify this into words, I hope I’m making sense.

It really feels like Tiana’s Bayou Adventure is FEA’s spiritual successor and that’s not a compliment at all, as they both suffer from the same “YAYAYAY HAPPY TIMES” for toddlers, terrible storytelling, very weak set dressing for large parts, and weak execution from what it could be. Now, Splash was more beloved than Maelstrom, but I really think they’re both rides that could’ve just been executed a lot better and a lot of the complaints would be irrelevant (tho Frozen itself obviously is too large of a franchise to shoehorn). I can’t imagine that Disneyland Park wouldn’t get a Frozen ride at some point, Star Wars Coaster, Tomorrowland redo all seem like the next steps for the park, but I guess we’ll see.

I think SDMT is a perfect example of a ride basically executed perfectly despite its scale being too small, I wish Frozen: Ever After felt like that, but it really doesn’t. Alas, it’s not going anywhere but I’m still going to call it out, and I don’t think the AA’s faces are the ride’s largest issue.

I do agree that HKDL’s land is terrific, small, but very well done in matching the park’s quaintness, but Fantasy Springs is so, so much larger and more extensive that it doesn’t really matter, it also improved on some aspects as well; I just like HKDL’s whimsical approach, but HKDL needed a killer ride like Pirates, and it basically got a flawed (again, not even well executed) Shanghai’s Peter Pan’s Flight ride in scale instead. I disagree with people that say it was enough for HKDL, it really isn’t especially not to clone a frustratingly poorly executed attraction. Even if they plopped down Toy Story Mania, and they should, the park doesn’t have an IJA, RSR, FoP, etc. which is what it is. I hope the Avengers/Spider-Man drop tower is Mission: Breakout good, but I am very hesitant to be truly hyped for it because Iron Man Experience is flat out bad, Web Slingers is fine but so much weaker than Toy Story Mania it will never make sense other than R&D trying to justify it.

Walt Disney Studios also needed a killer ride, which I guess they’re getting with Lion King, I mean it really does look spectacular, but it again makes zero sense cloning FEA yet again. Not only are they arbitrarily restricting themselves with a small layout, the execution has never been all that good.

It’s even more noticeable when you ride like Snow White’s Enchanted Wish or Alice in Wonderland at Disneyland, it’s like, those rides are even smaller scale but just so much better paced alongside its storytelling as well.

Idk, I guess I just long for an alternate timeline where MK or HWS gets Frozen: Journey and we get a killer Mary Poppins ride in the UK pavilion instead.
 

Pizza Moon

Active Member
Said dated film could have easily been updated. Unfortunately, they took the lazy way out in the end. What happened to Maelstrom was yet another example of Disney intentionally sabotaging an EPCOT attraction to justify creating an IP based replacement just like they did with Imagination and Living Seas.
I was a massive fan of Maelstrom and Ellen’s Energy Adventure as a kid.

I think UOE to Guardians is a justified removal, as much as it pains me to lose the phenomenal score to history, the park needed a coaster and a headlining E-ticket and it solved both.

I just don’t feel like TBA, similar to Runaway Railway, or FEA, were worthy replacements in any capacity, and in FEA’s case I mean it also destroyed the entire vibe of the Norway pavilion. I don’t feel like Ratatouille has this issue at all, even if they got rid of Impressions de France (also would’ve been a cultural loss) for it, it at least would’ve fit the vibe.

Though if I could save one it would absolutely be GMR. Just mind blowing it’s not with us anymore. They could’ve replaced the opening scene of the dancers with a projection-mapped black and white silent film like say Buster Keaton or Nosferatu, A Trip to the Moon, or some unique concept where it transitions to from black and white to color using the RRR tech.

Swap the Tarzan scene with Planet of the Apes, even Home Alone, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, the 10 Commandments, Gone With the Wind (tho they wouldn’t do it, sadly), Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Narnia, Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men’s Chest, Narnia, Avatar, I mean there are so many infinite things with movies they own or license that they could’ve done. Would’ve been cool to see another animated movie even. I guarantee you a new script, continued TCM sponsorship, and a couple new scenes with updates throughout would’ve been a magnificent, I mean magnificent ride. The stretch from the Gangsters through Alien still, I think, holds up as one of the most immersive stretches in any ride ever, and the finale of having all the movie clips always brought chills.

I don’t like waiting in 90-minute lines for rides that are just fine which is another issue. RRR has issues, don’t get me wrong but I think it’s a fun ride for what it is and works so good in Toontown at Disneyland, but good God are the waits just absurd for it in Orlando, same with FEA, and there’s no single rider either. Two rides that elevated the experience and often times you could ride again and again with little waits replaced by lines so long you have to pay if you don’t want to waste so much time. I’d wait over an hour for Tower of Terror any day of the week. No way I’d wait half that for either of the two.

I find Song of the South to be hilariously mischaracterized in general, I think the over-the-top criticism against it is ridiculous, pretty exclusively by people that have either never seen it or are trying to find cultural critiques while missing the entire point and reading the film wrong, as it’s basically like everyone acts like it’s A Birth of A Nation and it just isn’t that way at all, but even so, Splash itself was very distant to any of the live action scenes, and it’s a tragedy to lose the characters, tongue and cheek wit, and especially its god-tier soundtrack to the dustbins of history in our collective conscious, a true cultural loss.

Great Movie Ride in particular is an even larger genuine cultural loss in a way I don’t think anyone ever really talks about on the internet.

Losing GMR is sort of the equivalent of losing an entire Smithsonian museum, and hear me out. It was a terrific experience as a ride, obviously dated, but still timeless, but the consequence of removing it, not informing newer generations about so many classic films and sparking a love for both classic cinema and potentially inspiring new aspiring filmmakers, is genuinely tragic.
 
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Pizza Moon

Active Member
EPCOT was supposed to be a permanent World's Fair not an amusement park. completely agree with your take on GMR, though.
I agree, and I think it’s a damn shame it’s diverged so far, but EPCOT Center always was supposed to have roller coasters. From the Matterhorn Bobsleds to a Mt. Fuji coaster. I think the park would’ve also benefited from a carousel. It’s important that every park have their own unique identity while having diverse offerings to make each park feel like you could spend all day there and there are things for everyone. Arguably, no park does this better than probably Europa Park (Germany) or Disneyland Park in Anaheim. I guess in each of their cases Disneyland could use a killer coaster and Europa could use a killer dark ride, but they have so many offering for attractions that it just feels infinite many with short wait times and attractions for every demographic. The park atmosphere at Europa is also pretty impressive while Disneyland obviously has far more robust nighttime entertainment. Very different approaches but the only two I’ve been to that really feel like multi-day parks for the average guest, obviously you could spend 4 days at Tokyo DisneySea, but I don’t think most people would really want to if that makes sense.

I think a Big Bang Coaster was always a ridiculously good idea and that’s basically what we got with 70s/80s music. I think Frozen and the Nemo ride were far more damaging to the park because at least Guardians satisfies multiple needs at once in terms of what the park needed with balance, where as the others were pretty pointless to do.

I am partial to Guardians of the Galaxy though, it’s one of my favorite IPs, up there with Pirates, Back to the Future, and Star Wars. I do think GOTG feels less “HR driven” than a lot of Marvel and other modern Disney content, but I also feel that it feels more “Disney” than say The Incredible Hulk or Iron Man. Difficult to describe why. Sort of like how Star Wars (despite my hatred of what Disney has done to the franchise) has always sort of felt “Disney” to me. In a way, Mission: Breakout also didn’t fit the park but I think it’s a legitimately spectacular attraction, I also like that they at least tried to give it an EPCOT pavilion vibe, though obviously Ratatouille is easily the best IP they’ve ever used at the park.
 

lentesta

Premium Member
I think this recent Disney patent application for holographic images is for Encanto:

1767189655240.png


1767189681021.png


In Figure 4, object 404 is two ride vehicles and 408 is the track.

Here's how the ride vehicles are rendered in Encanto's construction documents:

1767189830906.png


And the ride track in the plans has those tight, 90-degree corners as well.
 

jah4955

Well-Known Member
rather than raised those people up to something better as they used to do in days of 'yore.
THIS (at worst) is tied-for-first-place the BEST thing Disney ever did for me in my entire life. .....

One of the best things that ever happened in my entire life.

Particularly/Especially/Most frequently so at EPCOT 1.0 (but there were other examples):

it stoked the overwhelming desire, that should exist in everyone, ....

for me to strive like never before to become a better person...

to make sure I am making the contribution to the world that I was meant to make.
 

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
I would not call Maelstrom to Frozen “dumbing down” as Maelstrom wasn’t a good ride. They knew more people would like Frozen and it would be higher rated, woah turns out it is.

Every theme park does this, that’s why coasters are so common. It’s why Universal built the same land with a slightly different themed 3 times in one location and in about every other one of their parks. Popularity sells.
Maelstrom was a good ride for its time and served its purpose. Your forgetting it served a specific purpose, which was to appease sponsors and themes of the pavilion and guests for that time. Frozen does none of these things other than to be a little more current, make kids happy and for parents to open their wallets at the exit..... It's just too bad Maelstrom never received its planned 2.0,,,,,,Frozen doesn't execute the space very well at all except for maybe the first floor. It was obvious where the budget went and where it ran out. Upstairs they could have done a lot better, its still going to suffer from this, despite the upgrades coming. I still see FEA as a downgrade because of some of this but also mainly because the idiocy in closing up the open rocks where the boats came to,,they just took everything away that was so original and detailed.
 
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monothingie

I'm #11 Baby!
Premium Member
I think this recent Disney patent application for holographic images is for Encanto:

View attachment 899924

View attachment 899925

In Figure 4, object 404 is two ride vehicles and 408 is the track.

Here's how the ride vehicles are rendered in Encanto's construction documents:

View attachment 899926

And the ride track in the plans has those tight, 90-degree corners as well.
It's actually kind of neat and simple effect. The concept appears to have been around for quite a while. (Fresnel INcoherent Correlation Holography). It seems like a real throwback to simple practical effects that WED used so frequently with classic attractions.
 

WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
I mean you can insult the general public as much as you want but the fact of the matter is, they make Disney World the #1 visited theme park destination in the world.

They are going to appease to them. They are also spending money in making the attraction better anyway which is a bonus.
A sad reality
 

monothingie

I'm #11 Baby!
Premium Member
I mean you can insult the general public as much as you want but the fact of the matter is, they make Disney World the #1 visited theme park destination in the world.

They are going to appease to them. They are also spending money in making the attraction better anyway which is a bonus.
Except they're down from their 2019 peak and are now apparently at best flat and at worst heading in the wrong direction.

It's not all pixie dust and popcorn buckets right now.
 

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