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Original Alice in Wonderland Ride

Okee68

Well-Known Member
Here are a bunch of additional images of the project which I somehow missed previously. Absolutely superior artwork by him, as always. His attention to detail is just immaculate; Notice how he's taking cues from the old ride's art direction when "filling in the blanks" for obscure areas that don't have any photographic documentation.

The rats painted into the background just before the entrance to the warehouse must have come from the little non-anthropomorphic otter visible in the black and white photo of the harbor scene. Various twisty, amorphous details such as the startled trees and the wooden fence extending into the distance shortly prior to the railroad crossing are visibly reminiscent of the Van Gogh-esque styling of some of the original vignettes, such as the 3D roadway leading into the village intersection and the precarious road winding around a cliff beyond the railroad crossing. It's all so amazingly authentic and well-realized, and I can't properly put into words how deeply I commend him for understanding the assignment this thoroughly.
 

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Homemade Imagineering

Well-Known Member
Here are a bunch of additional images of the project which I somehow missed previously. Absolutely superior artwork by him, as always. His attention to detail is just immaculate; Notice how he's taking cues from the old ride's art direction when "filling in the blanks" for obscure areas that don't have any photographic documentation.

The rats painted into the background just before the entrance to the warehouse must have come from the little non-anthropomorphic otter visible in the black and white photo of the harbor scene. Various twisty, amorphous details such as the startled trees and the wooden fence extending into the distance shortly prior to the railroad crossing are visibly reminiscent of the Van Gogh-esque styling of some of the original vignettes, such as the 3D roadway leading into the village intersection and the precarious road winding around a cliff beyond the railroad crossing. It's all so amazingly authentic and well-realized, and I can't properly put into words how deeply I commend him for understanding the assignment this thoroughly.
I absolutely love how much these old darkrides borrow from traditional theatrical sets. Simple painted flats arranged meticulously for a cohesive experience. Just goes to show that a successful attraction is alot more than just the latest & greatest technology. Insane attention to detail, so excited for this one. Toad was always my favorite
 

Okee68

Well-Known Member
@Rich T Any thoughts on the newly revealed pre-1983 Toad replica by Don Carson? My initial post about it is at the end of page 29, and there are a bunch of pictures from it at the top of this new page. I believe he's taking a few creative liberties with his portrayals of the super obscure, unphotographed corners of the ride (unless he has access to a few photos that nobody here has seen), although he's doing it in a way that looks incredibly authentic and consistent with the art direction of the original sets in my opinion.
 

Rich T

Well-Known Member
@Rich T Any thoughts on the newly revealed pre-1983 Toad replica by Don Carson? My initial post about it is at the end of page 29, and there are a bunch of pictures from it at the top of this new page. I believe he's taking a few creative liberties with his portrayals of the super obscure, unphotographed corners of the ride (unless he has access to a few photos that nobody here has seen), although he's doing it in a way that looks incredibly authentic and consistent with the art direction of the original sets in my opinion.
I’m very excited about this project, as his original Alice in Wonderland ride recreation is one of my all time favorite videos.

Since the original Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride was altered a bit now and then before the big 1983 overhaul, I’m kind of hoping he’s going for a best-of version of the original ride, keeping some of the later additions like the Butler and Motorcycle Cop, but also bringing back deleted things like the suit of armor’s axe and—of course—the devil’s mouth and “Welcome” flames. 😃

I’m curious as to how he’ll approach the audio, as on the original the siren and police whistles could be heard over and over through most of the ride, which added to feeling of chaos. One way or the other, I’m really looking forward to this!
 

Okee68

Well-Known Member
I’m very excited about this project, as his original Alice in Wonderland ride recreation is one of my all time favorite videos.

Since the original Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride was altered a bit now and then before the big 1983 overhaul, I’m kind of hoping he’s going for a best-of version of the original ride, keeping some of the later additions like the Butler and Motorcycle Cop, but also bringing back deleted things like the suit of armor’s axe and—of course—the devil’s mouth and “Welcome” flames. 😃

I’m curious as to how he’ll approach the audio, as on the original the siren and police whistles could be heard over and over through most of the ride, which added to feeling of chaos. One way or the other, I’m really looking forward to this!
Judging by his inclusion of the 1961 breakaway flats in the warehouse scene, I would say he's probably doing exactly what you're describing here, especially because the un-upgraded 1955 version was a bit sparse compared to the more realized 1961 version.

The audio is something I've been pondering as well. To the best of my knowledge, Don is a former Imagineer, which probably explains how he was able to obtain the 1958 Alice source audio, which is also in the possession of DisneyChris. Assuming his source was just DisneyChris, then I'm not sure how the audio will be handled, as the Toad audio sample on the DisneyChris website is missing most of the original sound effects and instead opts for approximations, which would presumably mean DisneyChris doesn't have all of the audio. However, if Don's source is someone who does have all of the audio, then I'm seriously looking forward to hearing whatever he ends up doing with it, as a lot of those sound effects only exist in muffled recordings at the moment, so hearing them in their intended, crisp quality would be quite gnarly.



This is just a pipe dream, but perhaps if I were to somehow get involved in this project, I could craft an authentic audio ridethrough in Audacity with all of the original sound effects (if they still exist), each one bleeding through the walls at their correct eleven-second intervals. Probably not, but it would 100% be my finest moment.

By the way, this is a bit random, but do you remember if the breakaway crates and kegs in the warehouse had an accompanying sound effect prior to 1983? In the 1970s recording you can hear the big 3D tower of kegs toppling over with an explosive thud, but everything in the warehouse prior to that moment is oddly silent. I've always wondered whether there really was no sound effect there, or if there was one that can never be heard due to the floor switch for it having been faulty when the recording was captured.
 

Rich T

Well-Known Member
…By the way, this is a bit random, but do you remember if the breakaway crates and kegs in the warehouse had an accompanying sound effect prior to 1983? In the 1970s recording you can hear the big 3D tower of kegs toppling over with an explosive thud, but everything in the warehouse prior to that moment is oddly silent. I've always wondered whether there really was no sound effect there, or if there was one that can never be heard due to the floor switch for it having been faulty when the recording was captured.
The best answer my memory can provide is that the original warehouse barrels and crates had sound effects as they swung aside, but the sound was much more subdued.

When I first rode the 1983 version, I was very impressed by how much the improved audio quality of the ride’s sound effects enhanced the entire experience, and warehouse scene was the best before-and-after example. I was happy to see they’d kept one of my favorite scenes and greatly improved it by making the sound effects genuinely startling, whereas before it was more of a muffled background sound.

Of course, in the original, any sound effect that wan’t a siren, whistle or warning signal had a tough time competing for attention in the overall din! 😃
 

Dragonman

Well-Known Member
Not exactly Fantasyland-specific but I’m wondering how many attractions that still exist are known to have lost audio that only survives in older recordings. I know Haunted Mansion is a big example and obviously the Fantasyland dark rides in this thread.
 

Okee68

Well-Known Member

This is the article about the ride referenced in the video. I had absolutely no idea this existed until now, but it's a pretty interesting and well-rounded analysis of the ride. However, call me a smoothbrain for suggesting this, but I think the authors might be overanalyzing a few details and misinterpreting certain startling gags as "threatening" when I don't think that was really the intention in most instances.

I haven't watched the video beyond the first few seconds, although I will shortly.
 

Okee68

Well-Known Member
The legend has graced us with a massive update:



Not only has he made tons of absolutely stunning progress, but he even included two new interior photos in the video, in addition to having multiple REAL preliminary wall-to-wall sketches from the 1961 updates incorporated into the model! You can also frequently make out revealing information written onto the 1961 floor plan that he uses. Absolute treasure trove here, seriously!

Toad Hall bay window.png


First cop.png
 

Rich T

Well-Known Member
The legend has graced us with a massive update:



Not only has he made tons of absolutely stunning progress, but he even included two new interior photos in the video, in addition to having multiple REAL preliminary wall-to-wall sketches from the 1961 updates incorporated into the model! You can also frequently make out revealing information written onto the 1961 floor plan that he uses. Absolute treasure trove here, seriously!

View attachment 901980

View attachment 901981

This is looking fantastic!!!!!
 

Okee68

Well-Known Member
This view of the one-way street is particularly amazing to me, as it's a realistic idea of what it would have looked like to actually be in this part of the ride. This angle really puts you in there, with the buildings on both sides, the motorcycle cop impending in the distance, and the traffic signs and construction barricade crowding the scene. There isn't a single photo of the straightaway that shows nearly every element of it like this shot does, so this is really a treat to look at.

one-way street.png


I've always thought this was a better use of this space than the meadow scenery. The Imagineers took advantage of the fact that they were restricted to a narrow, straight corridor in this part of the ride and came up with a densely detailed urban alleyway with a ton of stuff going on. They took an already tight space and made it utterly claustrophobic as a way of adding to the ride's chaotic nature. This scene definitely blew WDW's lame one-way street out of the water, if nothing else.
 

Okee68

Well-Known Member
Non-exhaustive list of things that are revealed by the partially visible 1961 floor plan and wall-to-wall sketches:

>Moley was positioned directly in front of riders immediately beyond the doors to the main room of Toad Hall, in the center of the track just before the U-turn.

>Ratty was apparently in Toad Hall originally, about halfway along the U-turn right after Moley. I don't know whether he was actually located here initially and then moved to the one-way street at a later date, or if the Imagineers decided to change his location before the 1961 updates were implemented.

>The floor plan shows an identical flat prop on either side of the stained-glass bay window, one of which is labeled "new palm." One would assume this was a small decorative palm tree of sorts, or perhaps a single palm frond. As for whether both of the flats were palms, I have no idea, but I would assume they were.

>The flat staircase visible in several of the photos of Toad Hall from The "E" Ticket was removed in 1961, as the space which would become the pantry was extended forward into the main area of Toad Hall and would have ruined the illusion of there being a staircase in the middle of the room.

>Two of the three arched bookshelves painted onto the walls of the space that became the pantry in 1961 were cut out and repurposed into the pantry doors. The wall-to-wall sketch of the doors reads, "Use existing painted flat and rebuild as doors." Very crafty move.

pantry doors.png


>There was a blast of cold air as riders entered the black space outside of Toad Hall, which is consistent with the mention of cold air at this point in The "E" Ticket's description of the ride.

>The cop outside of Toad Hall was indeed a 1961 addition, as was already speculated. He was positioned in the corner of the room, as per Rich T's recollection, and he faced riders at an angle.

>A stone arch was added over the mirror that reflected the car's headlights, although strangely the drawing of it specifies that it was painted black. Considering how all of the surrounding walls in this area were already pitch-black (meaning that the mirror would have appeared totally black except for the headlights), I don't know how visible this arch would have really been.

>There were several small curves in the track during the harbor scene, which must have been a 1961 addition judging by the 1955 photo of the scene from The "E" Ticket, which shows a straight track.

>The suspended crate gag was in fact added as part of the 1961 update, and it did indeed lower, as with Rich T's recollection of it. It was also a flat rather than a three-dimensional prop.

>The brick wall at the end of the warehouse was painted with faded letters reading, "DANGER - DO NOT ENTER," and the doors always had a unique shape to provide the illusion of the bricks breaking away. Interestingly, the wall-to-wall sketch reads, "Brick wall and doors - Add to existing [...]," perhaps implying that there wasn't even a door there at all in 1955.

>The signalman and possibly the breakaway crossing gate were actually 1961 additions, which is surprising to me. I had always assumed the photo showing a cop outside of the tunnel was merely a bit of pre-opening weirdness, but as it turns out, that's actually how the scene looked prior to 1961.

>A strobe light effect was added to the train collision, which is consistent with the description from The "E" Ticket, although it likely didn't last for too long, as nobody else seems to recall it.

>There were a few small curves in the track after the train collision, which is consistent with Rich T's recollection IIRC. I'm not sure if this was added in 1961 or if it was there from the beginning.

>There was some sort of projected flame effect on the walls of the hell scene. I don't know what this effect would have entailed; The wall-to-wall sketch merely reads, "Flame effect to be projected over dimensional wall treatment."
 

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