Epic Universe is the lowest rated theme park in Orlando

[Jon81uk]

I talk about a lot of the problems facing Universal at the moment in the article I am also aware of other things I didn't write about.
As backwards as it might sound right now, I personally see extending the park's hours beyond 13 hours as detrimental to the overall experience of the day guests.

If the park closes at 10, what time are they seeing last guests walk off the ride?

Maintenance then would have from the time they can lock out the rides until whatever time the cut off is in the morning opening to do whatever they need to do.

There's a laundry list of things they need to perform SM on in the park at the moment not least of which work on RVs if they don't get that done those are either out next day or operating with less capacity - one of the main causes being repeated is lack of RVs in rotation. I would view getting as much maintenance done as possible to reduce downtime and increase hourly ride capacity more important than extending park hours - especially when you will not see a uniform amount of guests staying later as you do at 10am. It's just creating an after hours party effect where a minority have a great time, but may impact the majority the next day

Yes the park is not as busy into the evening anyway, I don’t think staying open past 10pm would gain a significant amount compared to improving ride capacity and managing express pass to keep the queues moving during the main part of the day. Maybe starting early entry at 8.30am and regular opening at 9.30 or similar would be better than late night to many people right now.

 

[mkt]

If the park closes at 10, what time are they seeing last guests walk off the ride?

It’s not the easiest thing to predict.

If the park closes at 10 (in your example), the last guests usually leave somewhere between 11:30 p.m. and 12:30 a.m.

A lot depends on how long the attraction queues are at closing - Universal will let people jump in line right up to the last minute. Add in guests finishing a late dinner at a full-service restaurant or doing some last-minute shopping on the way out, and “closing time” becomes more of a suggestion than a firm cutoff.

I’ve actually been the last guest out at Epic more than once. My most recent time was a 9 p.m. close, and I didn’t get home until nearly midnight (a fifteen minute drive away). It was a mix of being in the queue at closing and people in our group shopping on the way out.

 

[Comped]

Speaking of labor shortages, was it ever actually true that they were firing dozens of Team Members during the initial previews of Epic Universe for leaking images, videos, trip reports, etc. of the park? They gave up any pretence that would happen after a while, however it always seemed insane to me they would be firing people at a time they needed to be hiring in a tight labor market. People insisted on here, though, that lots of people had been let go because they did not maintain the secrecy Universal was hoping for.

I am just curious to know whether that ever happened or whether it was all more or less a smokescreen to try and frighten people into not revealing anything.

Several TMs have told me that they did see firings because of people leaking things, but I am unaware of the scale (obviously Uni will never disclose).

For those more familiar with the topic, is there a sort of snobbery or hierarchy amongst people taking jobs working in theme parks compared to working in theme park hotels? Do people view hotel theme park staff as being a grade above those who work in the actual theme parks, is one easier to recruit for than the other?

I know it gets hot in Orlando (and wet) but is say working in catering in a theme park hotel seen somewhat better than working a catering role in a park itself?

When I was at Rosen, working in the parks (even as the most junior front line CM) was seen by many of my classmates (mostly CMs who worked in the parks) as being superior to working in the hotels (something I've seen since as a guest on rare occasion among even more senior CMs). When I worked for Disney, i didn't see this much (at least until I mentioned what resort I worked at, which resulted in more than a few faces being made, either by fellow CMs or guests when I was off). I saw far more resort-vs-resort comparisons in terms of prestige and goings-on operationally, versus comparing ourselves (or other properties) to the parks. I've certainly never heard, before or since, resort CMs (or their Loews equivalents) speaking bad of the parks to make themselves look better. It's likely a cultural issue.

Personally I preferred working in a resort because I wasn't outside much. The heat will kill you.

 

[DonniePeverley]

It’s not the easiest thing to predict.

If the park closes at 10 (in your example), the last guests usually leave somewhere between 11:30 p.m. and 12:30 a.m.

A lot depends on how long the attraction queues are at closing - Universal will let people jump in line right up to the last minute. Add in guests finishing a late dinner at a full-service restaurant or doing some last-minute shopping on the way out, and “closing time” becomes more of a suggestion than a firm cutoff.

I’ve actually been the last guest out at Epic more than once. My most recent time was a 9 p.m. close, and I didn’t get home until nearly midnight (a fifteen minute drive away). It was a mix of being in the queue at closing and people in our group shopping on the way out.

All i read was random words.

There should be no excuses. You open a new theme park. You want long term positive feedback as the greatest theme park ever built.

Instead the park is generating some awful reviews, and terrible word of mouth.

The simple solution to all this, and would be pretty obvious for a first year in operation with large crowds, to open the park longer, so guests stagnate what time they arrive. Of course this will mean more operating costs, but at the expense of a more positive experience and glowing feedback - that costs investment.

Now is not the time to penny pinch - IF THAT is what it is going on.

 

[mergatroid]

Now Universal is at the really shallow end of the labor pool. Many can't pass the background check/drug screen. Usually Universal would back fill the positions with J-1s. That's short for the "J-1 Visa Program", which is an international work exchange program. Mostly from South America, many from Venezuela. Not many people applying for J-1 Visas now.

You would think there'd still be a big demand to work at a new theme park though.

Out of interest do Universal provide housing for Universal overseas TM's like Disney do? We've had a number of chats with CM's at Epcot in the restaurants about where Disney house them and how they like living there.

 

[mkt]

All i read was random words.

There should be no excuses. You open a new theme park. You want long term positive feedback as the greatest theme park ever built.

Instead the park is generating some awful reviews, and terrible word of mouth.

The simple solution to all this, and would be pretty obvious for a first year in operation with large crowds, to open the park longer, so guests stagnate what time they arrive. Of course this will mean more operating costs, but at the expense of a more positive experience and glowing feedback - that costs investment.

Now is not the time to penny pinch - IF THAT is what it is going on.

What in actual hell are you talking about Donnie?

This was in response to someone asking when the last guest could be expected to exit an attraction (or the park) would be if they were in queue at park close.

Because unlike you, some of us know the industry very well because we've done our time in it.

And finally, in spite of the reviews, the park is seemingly always busy and is printing money for its parent company hand over fist. The reviews have done nothing to stop demand for the park, to the point that the first two expansions have been greenlit - less than a year after it opened.

Go back to Thailand. Maybe the peope there will put up with your crap.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

What in actual hell are you talking about Donnie?

This was in response to someone asking when the last guest could be expected to exit an attraction (or the park) would be if they were in queue at park close.

Because unlike you, some of us know the industry very well because we've done our time in it.

And finally, in spite of the reviews, the park is seemingly always busy and is printing money for its parent company hand over fist. The reviews have done nothing to stop demand for the park, to the point that the first two expansions have been greenlit - less than a year after it opened.

Go back to Thailand. Maybe the peope there will put up with your crap.

I would like to point out that "busy" at EU is very different than busy at a lot of other theme parks. Most estimates I've seen had it around 16-20k people per day which is quite under AK's 24k people a day from 2024. And also the new expansions were definitely made because of the criticisms of the park and fasttracked rather than because its so awesome and well respected.

 

[mkt]

I would like to point out that "busy" at EU is very different than busy at a lot of other theme parks. Most estimates I've seen had it around 16-20k people per day which is quite under AK's 24k people a day from 2024. And also the new expansions were definitely made because of the criticisms of the park and fasttracked rather than because its so awesome and well respected.

And these are all valid and fair points. The park needs to expand ride capacity urgently.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

And these are all valid and fair points. The park needs to expand ride capacity urgently.

Definitely, overall I liked what I went on for the most part (other than the problems with the park) but it wawnt worth the huge waits

 

[mkt]

Definitely, overall I liked what I went on for the most part (other than the problems with the park) but it wawnt worth the huge waits

The park's biggest issue isn't with theming or quality. It's a failure in industrial engineering amplified by a CX fail.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

I find it hard to believe AK is averaging 24k people a day. The park closes at 6 pm for a reason and it isn't exactly super packed during operating hours most of the time.

I mean thats the actual average. It served 8.8 million people last year, divided by 365 gets you 24,109 people per day on average. While I'm sure that's affected by a lot of people who go there on APs to grab a bite to eat and a ride or two, that doesn't change the actual amount on average going through the gates.

AK closes early not because its not profitable but because that helps it be MORE profitable as the animals are prohibitively expensive so they save money on front end by requiring less shifts/hours for them. Simple as that

It's also a pretty decently spread around park with a fair number of people eaters through the trails and its rides being monsters for capacity.

 

[DonniePeverley]

What in actual hell are you talking about Donnie?

This was in response to someone asking when the last guest could be expected to exit an attraction (or the park) would be if they were in queue at park close.

Because unlike you, some of us know the industry very well because we've done our time in it.

And finally, in spite of the reviews, the park is seemingly always busy and is printing money for its parent company hand over fist. The reviews have done nothing to stop demand for the park, to the point that the first two expansions have been greenlit - less than a year after it opened.

Go back to Thailand. Maybe the peope there will put up with your crap.

Words words words. No idea what on earth you are talking about.

The general consensus from most on this board and online is that having longer operating hours may well be a simple short term solution to address the complaints from many visitors. You replied back with some sort of summary why this is not needed with words and more words about how you know the market.

Most likely what's gone on here, is that you know the point is correct, but you just want to do an opposing view point to give the illusion of feeling clever, so you've hyperboled with words and more words.

 

[marni1971]

Instead the park is generating some awful reviews

Every park, owned by every corporation, does that.

Do AP holders complain as much? Asking for a friend.

 

[maxairmike]

I mean thats the actual average. It served 8.8 million people last year, divided by 365 gets you 24,109 people per day on average. While I'm sure that's affected by a lot of people who go there on APs to grab a bite to eat and a ride or two, that doesn't change the actual amount on average going through the gates.

AK closes early not because its not profitable but because that helps it be MORE profitable as the animals are prohibitively expensive so they save money on front end by requiring less shifts/hours for them. Simple as that

It's also a pretty decently spread around park with a fair number of people eaters through the trails and its rides being monsters for capacity.

Using the first click method with some tickets still requiring reservations does result in some skew of those real and estimated numbers, though, as DAK is almost always the easiest park for a last minute reservation which typically means a guest literally tapping in and walking right back out to go to the park they actually wanted to. And remember that the annual TEA numbers are estimates with very well-known disputes within the industry; I personally take them with multiple car-sized grains of salt.

 

[Touchdown]

I think Epic is a blast, and I had a great time there Thursday this was my third visit. I waited 1 hour once, over 30 min 3 times and otherwise had short waits, ride total:
3 times: Ministry*, Stardust, Monsters
2 times: Mariokart*, Minecart Madness*, Wing Gliders
1 time: Fyre Drill

*1 lap during EE

I also saw the Untrainable Dragon, Cirque Arcanue, the fountain show, 2 quick service meals and had time to explore. 19 attractions in one day without express is pretty darn good. I will also admit I utilized the SRL for Ministry once and Minecart twice.

 

[mergatroid]

I think Epic is a blast, and I had a great time there Thursday this was my third visit. I waited 1 hour once, over 30 min 3 times and otherwise had short waits, ride total:
3 times: Ministry*, Stardust, Monsters
2 times: Mariokart*, Minecart Madness*, Wing Gliders
1 time: Fyre Drill

*1 lap during EE

I also saw the Untrainable Dragon, Cirque Arcanue, the fountain show, 2 quick service meals and had time to explore. 19 attractions in one day without express is pretty darn good. I will also admit I utilized the SRL for Ministry once and Minecart twice.

Glad you enjoyed it and rode so much.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Words words words. No idea what on earth you are talking about.

Language, how does it work?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Using the first click method with some tickets still requiring reservations does result in some skew of those real and estimated numbers, though, as DAK is almost always the easiest park for a last minute reservation which typically means a guest literally tapping in and walking right back out to go to the park they actually wanted to. And remember that the annual TEA numbers are estimates with very well-known disputes within the industry; I personally take them with multiple car-sized grains of salt.

Meh. The vast majority of days are always available for reservations these days, at all parks. The number of people doing what you’re describing above is going to be a statistically insignificant rounding error.

 

[mkt]

The general consensus from most on this board and online is that having longer operating hours may well be a simple short term solution to address the complaints from many visitors. You replied back with some sort of summary why this is not needed with words and more words about how you know the market.

Most likely what's gone on here, is that you know the point is correct, but you just want to do an opposing view point to give the illusion of feeling clever, so you've hyperboled with words and more words.

I don’t disagree that longer hours would help the guest experience.

I also know - because of my job - why they don’t do it. That’s not a defense, it’s an explanation. If you don’t like the explanation, take it up with the executives who make the decisions, not with me.

A few reasons, off the top of my head:

Staffing. The parks are short-staffed across multiple departments, and executives won’t approve overtime or bump part-timers into full-time benefits just to extend hours. This isn’t a Universal-only problem; Disney and SeaWorld are in the same boat.

Maintenance. Several Epic attractions require longer daily servicing windows. As of now, that's non-negotiable.

Cost/benefit. Longer hours = fewer guests early/late = less revenue per labor hour. Leadership prefers shorter, denser operating windows because they make more money. Again, every major operator does this calculus.

None of this means I agree with the outcome. It just means the reasoning exists, whether you like it or not.

 

[mkt]

Language, how does it work?

I’m still waiting for Duolingo to unlock the "talk to grown-ups on the internet" course.