MK Stitch's Great Escape Replacement— Don’t Hold Your Breath

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Splash4eva

Well-Known Member
Disney Dead Head said:
I was told that if they touch or try and make any changes to the building, which also includes Cosmic Rays, the entire building would need to be torn down and brought up to current code, and Disney won't do that
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Thank you for that info appreciate the clarity… so basically Disney is being cheap and refusing to spend money to do things right. Guess they couldnt fit this in the “60 billion commitment”
 
Bocabear

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
Disney Dead Head said:
I was told that if they touch or try and make any changes to the building, which also includes Cosmic Rays, the entire building would need to be torn down and brought up to current code, and Disney won't do that
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Perhaps they should invest some money and bring the building up to code...while putting in a new attraction for the entrance to Tomorrowland...I guess the gift shop and ice cream place would also have to be replaced.... And the People Mover would also be down for the 5 years it would take them to do this...but maybe they would actually update the show scenes during that time..... I would have rather seen them do that and do something with the speedway than what they are doing to the other side of the park... for sure.
And seriously... Enclose Tomorrowland Terrace and Open it up full time until Cosmic Ray's and the new half of Tomorrowland is complete....
Or...... Shut down all of Tomorrowland, re-route the Fantasyland path to keep TRON open, and just completely re-think what Tomorrowland is.... do all the work at once... Space Mountain, Speedway, Stitch replacement, Laff Floor Replacement,
New show scenes for People Mover, New Ice Cream location , gift shop and a fully revamped and updated Cosmic Ray's. Make Tomorrowland the Gleaming star of the park that it once was.
 
phillip9698

phillip9698

Well-Known Member
Bocabear said:
Perhaps they should invest some money and bring the building up to code...while putting in a new attraction for the entrance to Tomorrowland...I guess the gift shop and ice cream place would also have to be replaced.... And the People Mover would also be down for the 5 years it would take them to do this...but maybe they would actually update the show scenes during that time..... I would have rather seen them do that and do something with the speedway than what they are doing to the other side of the park... for sure.
And seriously... Enclose Tomorrowland Terrace and Open it up full time until Cosmic Ray's and the new half of Tomorrowland is complete....
Or...... Shut down all of Tomorrowland, re-route the Fantasyland path to keep TRON open, and just completely re-think what Tomorrowland is.... do all the work at once... Space Mountain, Speedway, Stitch replacement, Laff Floor Replacement,
New show scenes for People Mover, New Ice Cream location , gift shop and a fully revamped and updated Cosmic Ray's. Make Tomorrowland the Gleaming star of the park that it once was.
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It seems like Orlando in particular is terrified about making sweeping changes like that. They probably see a 5 year timeline to completely redo Tomorrowland as too big of a potential P&L loss to the ATM that is WDW.

I agree with you, the Tomorrowland in MK needs to be rethought. As of right now its just a patch of bland hot cement.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Disney Dead Head said:
I was told that if they touch or try and make any changes to the building, which also includes Cosmic Rays, the entire building would need to be torn down and brought up to current code, and Disney won't do that
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That’s not true. There is no code requirement to demolish existing facilities. That’s just not a thing.

Building codes allow renovations. There are even distinct codes focused specifically on existing buildings. Modernization is generally concentrated in and around the area being modified and what that involves is often exaggerated. The thing that really triggers more comprehensive modernization is a change in use and occupancy. Converting an old factory into condos is a change in use requiring comprehensive updating. Changing from a show to another show or a ride is all staying as an Assembly occupancy. So unless Disney is changing the space into DVC, they’re not triggering a change in use. The EPCOT Building Code is unique in that it has project cost thresholds for renovations and Disney in general has spent significant sums on general modernization programs (including accessibility updates and asbestos abatement).

Also, the building was touched not that long ago when the indoor seating for Cosmic Ray’s was expanded.
 
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Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
DisneyHead123 said:
I think in a way it will be a nice balance. There is “kid appropriate scary” and then there is “horror”. The latter I think has no place at Disney, that’s just not their thing. The former I think has a healthy place in the parks - I remember as a kid having this Haunted Mansion storybook read aloud, and I remember finding the b side very spooky and strangely unsettling, although not terrifying. It was something I was just quite intrigued with as a kid. (Out of curiosity I Googled it and I think I found it… it’s not this one, implying you are murdered by ghosts, lol, apparently that didn’t make an impression on me, but this one, a random track of dogs howling.) I do think some of that kid appropriate scariness has been removed from the parks for a variety of reasons - in some ways I think the world is kinder and so seeing Snow White terrorized felt strange (like today you’d want her to be able to report stalking and bullying and not just run around screaming); in some ways it’s crueler so having a shooting arcade in a world where real shootings are an ongoing national trauma felt wildly inappropriate - it’s just a hard balance these days, but I do think that a sense of apprehension and the danger that comes with adventure is a natural part of childhood. I hope they find that delicate balance for Villains.
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I agree, that a mix of scary, not horror is the way to go. Don't say though that there is nothing scary in MK. I took my children in 1983 and my youngest daughter was almost 7 years old. We went to the HM and rode it and it appeared that everything was fine. She never mentioned it until a year later when we were planning another trip, she said..."I want to see Haunted Mansion". I told her we had done that last year, don't you want to see something new? Her reply "I didn't see it I had my eyes closed the entire way". Why? Because she was scared to death, but her older sister was having fun on it because she understood the show aspect and not the scary part and she didn't want to appear to be a baby, so she said nothing. She is one of the strongest women I know, and seems unafraid of anything. She might still be faking it. Right now she is just a child of 49. It was entertainment to one that was just two years older, and life threatening to her. movies and TV are things that young kids can easily deal with because they have been exposed to it since birth. However, once you make it 3 dimensional, it become way to real for a young mind to process. Disney Parks original purpose was to have things for people to see, learn from and happily enjoy, not wet their pants out of unnecessary fear.

Universal is a great place to go to get scared. Why anyone wants to have somebody scare them is out of my limited mental reach. Life is scary enough without paying someone to make it happen. Right now everything is scary.
 
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MR.Dis

Well-Known Member
The mention about bringing up to code does not ring correct. Just finished reading "Buying Disney's World" and part of the agreement with the State of Florida was they became a super district, the Ready Creek District was responsible for all building codes. So the now renamed district would be responsible for any building code changes and I have not yet read that they have gotten involved in any changes.
 
D

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
DisneyHead123 said:
I guess I don’t see the messages of the individual villains being central to the land. The only time you’ll hear from them in person will be during character experiences, and I don’t think there’s reason to believe those will be any different than they are elsewhere in the parks. The rest will be architecture, food, lighting, vibes and so on. I guess I could see it featuring a bit in the rides but even those tend to be more sensory based than exposition based. I think we’ll see the villains in the rides against some kind of very basic narrative about what’s happening, but I doubt it will go into a ton of detail about their state of mind.
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Tha Realest said:
How can you be so sure of that? It is decidedly early in the design process. This is an awfully big assumption to make, particularly with how WDI has made it an imperative to have the guests be involved and interact with the story during the attraction experience.
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I definitely could have phrased that better, but my general point is that this is how “lands” pretty much always work. We don’t get any deep insight into what Harry Potter is up to in the Potter Worlds, Nintendo World doesn’t go into what kind of person Mario is these days, Toy Story Land doesn’t give us any insight into how Woody, Buzz, and Jesse are interacting with that land, etc. I guess Galaxies Edge could have been an exception as originally it was going to be more interactive with some kind of ongoing narrative, but at this point, for the average park goer, it’s about walking around and seeing Star Wars stuff (I guess it has a bit more narrative, but it’s pretty basic from what I can tell.)

Even if there’s a show or MagiQuest style game where you interact with the villains, is it going to set the tone for the whole land? Like I think the current Villains show looks like a lot of fun but also doesn’t perfectly nail the villains vibe in the way that I would like. That said, if they put that show in Villains land, I don’t think it would impact my experience that much. It’s one short show, it certainly wouldn’t define the land.
 
D

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
I agree, that a mix of scary, not horror is the way to go. Don't say though that there is nothing scary in MK. I took my children in 1983 and my youngest daughter was almost 7 years old. We went to the HM and rode it and it appeared that everything was fine. She never mentioned it until a year later when we were planning another trip, she said..."I want to see Haunted Mansion". I told her we had done that last year, don't you want to see something new? Her reply "I didn't see it I had my eyes closed the entire way". Why? Because she was scared to death, but her older sister was having fun on it because she understood the show aspect and not the scary part and she didn't want to appear to be a baby, so she said nothing. She is one of the strongest women I know, and seen unafraid of anything. She might still be faking it. Right now she is just a child of 49. It was entertainment to one that was just two years older, and life threatening to her. movies and TV are things that young kids can easily deal with because they have been exposed to it since birth. However, once you make it 3 dimensional, it become way to real for a young mind to process. Disney Parks original purpose was to have things for people to see, learn from and happily enjoy, not wet their pants out of unnecessary fear.

Universal is a great place to go to get scared. Why anyone wants to have somebody scare them is out of my limited mental reach. Life is scary enough without paying someone to make it happen. Right now everything is scary.
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It’s fair to say there is still scary stuff in MK, although outside of the Halloween events I think most of it is a holdover from another time and even that has been chipped away significantly. Parts of TSI were a bit spooky but that’s gone, for example. So that’s why I’m thinking maybe Villains could bring back some balance there. Honestly as a kid I remember hating Haunted Mansion and not wanting to even look at it - I didn’t find it terrifying but I thought it seemed like such a sad, dark place in such a happy park. Years later during my Hot Topic phase I learned to love it, lol. So I guess I do subscribe to the theory that children shouldn’t have a perfectly sanitized experience, that some contact with all parts of the emotional spectrum is important (I was a bit resistant to the idea of Villains in MK initially but have come around after thinking of the positive aspects.)

Glad your daughter faced her fears and learned to enjoy the ride! My son is an only child but I definitely see how he will try to be brave when he’s with his older cousins. Sometimes that’s the only way I can get him to try new things!
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
MR.Dis said:
The mention about bringing up to code does not ring correct. Just finished reading "Buying Disney's World" and part of the agreement with the State of Florida was they became a super district, the Ready Creek District was responsible for all building codes. So the now renamed district would be responsible for any building code changes and I have not yet read that they have gotten involved in any changes.
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The EPCOT Building Codes have been updated multiple times since they were first published in the 1970s. The most recent updates are the 2023 Supplements to the 2018 EPCOT Building Codes.

The EPCOT Fire Code was replaced by the Florida Fire Protection Code years ago and is updated every three years.

The EPCOT Building Codes do not supersede the Florida Building Code which is also updated every three years.

The ADA Standards for Accessible Design and the Florida Building Code - Accessibility (which is also the EPCOT Accessibility Code) have been updated since Stitch’s Great Escape opened.
 

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