MK New Beak and Barrel - Pirates of the Caribbean-themed lounge

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
I will be the contrarian here: while the atmosphere of this space is spot-on, the details are a mess.

The materials and finishes (generally) make sense with a pirate environment, the faux structural elements are (mostly) used correctly, and the drippy candles set a great mood. The first impression of the vibe is great, but when you look beyond that it all starts to fall apart.

What is this space supposed to be? Is it a restaurant that pirates built? Is it a storehouse for their loot? It seems like the designers couldn’t make up their mind, so we ended up with an odd mix of reclaimed nautical elements (anchor chandelier, stained glass window), items that only make sense in a public club or restaurant (leather club chairs, cozy booths), and Applebee’s-style kitsch that adds flair but is too calculated for pirates (carefully curated display cabinets, fireplace with not-one-but-five oversized ships in bottles).

The finished version is also too cartoony. It’s a miniaturized captain’s quarters from the stern of a ship that’s been stylized to look like a skull. None of that makes sense with how pirates would have made it. Shrinking down design elements like that is a relatively modern concept that keep it from feeling timeless; when building things by hand, they would have just built a portion of the full-scale item rather than taking the whole thing and shrinking it down and having all the superfluous scrollwork.

The skull design of the cabinet also makes little sense in the real world, unless we’re meant to believe that in addition to sailors and thieves (and antiques aficionados), pirates are whimsical craftsmen who infuse their self-styled branding into all the work they do. Similarly, why are there ornate carvings of POTC movie characters everywhere, rather than simple graffiti that was plausibly scratched in by a pirate? It doesn’t make the elements convincing, it makes them look like props.

Instead, the cabinetry could have been made from salvaged materials, like ship hatches and shutters. It could have used full-scale (or close enough to trick the eye) elements to convincingly feel like it’s a real object. It could have included wood joints to avoid the look of plywood, and it could have used angles that correlate to actual construction rather than a fanciful sculpture. Instead of looking like a real object, it’s fallen into WDI’s trap of too many layers of references getting in the way of simply making sense.

The-Beak-and-Barrel_Full_61901.jpg

The map table is another miss for me. The designers seemingly wanted a large table that big groups could gather around; on a ship, that would be where the maps are rolled out, so it’s a logical design move. But for accessibility equity requirements, one corner of the table is at a lower elevation so people in wheelchairs can enjoy the space too. However, once you cut a piece of the table and lower it, you no longer have one big table that maps can be unfurled upon, so why even bother with the map concept? Instead of looking like a place to roll out a map, the finished product looks like a postmodern harpsichord. Additionally, nobody wants to be on their feet longer than necessary during a long day at the parks, so why couldn’t the oversized table have been at an elevation that allows all guests to be seated, or at least put stools around the high table? “Key” alert: a standing dining configuration is neither courteous nor inclusive; it may be stylish, but it’s annoying for tired guests.

MK already has a space that contemplates what a restaurant built by seafaring people would look like, and it’s one of the park’s best themed spaces: Columbia Harbor House. It manages to capture the spirit of wooden sailing vessels through its construction, while creating a practical restaurant through the size and flow of the spaces. It’s full of details that reinforce this idea, without ever becoming cartoony or pastiche. While it’s clear WDI was trying oh so very hard to make this a convincing space, it still falls short of the real lived-in feeling WED was able to accomplish half a century ago.

dining_location_image_4506.jpg

I respect everyone’s right to have their preferences - this is definitely more “fantastical pirates” than “realistic pirates”. That said, I love it, and I think people would have been howling if they had gone with something historically realistic here, complaining that it was boring and that Disney “cheaped out” on adding decor.

I do agree on the seating situation though. I just don’t understand the point of having a room where an unlucky few have to be on their feet. It would be different if that area was walk up and so you traded standing for getting to be there - but people will have to fight for the same reservations for a less comfortable experience.
 

Virtual Toad

Well-Known Member
I will be the contrarian here: while the atmosphere of this space is spot-on, the details are a mess.

The materials and finishes (generally) make sense with a pirate environment, the faux structural elements are (mostly) used correctly, and the drippy candles set a great mood. The first impression of the vibe is great, but when you look beyond that it all starts to fall apart.

What is this space supposed to be? Is it a restaurant that pirates built? Is it a storehouse for their loot? It seems like the designers couldn’t make up their mind, so we ended up with an odd mix of reclaimed nautical elements (anchor chandelier, stained glass window), items that only make sense in a public club or restaurant (leather club chairs, cozy booths), and Applebee’s-style kitsch that adds flair but is too calculated for pirates (carefully curated display cabinets, fireplace with not-one-but-five oversized ships in bottles).

The finished version is also too cartoony. It’s a miniaturized captain’s quarters from the stern of a ship that’s been stylized to look like a skull. None of that makes sense with how pirates would have made it. Shrinking down design elements like that is a relatively modern concept that keep it from feeling timeless; when building things by hand, they would have just built a portion of the full-scale item rather than taking the whole thing and shrinking it down and having all the superfluous scrollwork.

The skull design of the cabinet also makes little sense in the real world, unless we’re meant to believe that in addition to sailors and thieves (and antiques aficionados), pirates are whimsical craftsmen who infuse their self-styled branding into all the work they do. Similarly, why are there ornate carvings of POTC movie characters everywhere, rather than simple graffiti that was plausibly scratched in by a pirate? It doesn’t make the elements convincing, it makes them look like props.

Instead, the cabinetry could have been made from salvaged materials, like ship hatches and shutters. It could have used full-scale (or close enough to trick the eye) elements to convincingly feel like it’s a real object. It could have included wood joints to avoid the look of plywood, and it could have used angles that correlate to actual construction rather than a fanciful sculpture. Instead of looking like a real object, it’s fallen into WDI’s trap of too many layers of references getting in the way of simply making sense.

The-Beak-and-Barrel_Full_61901.jpg

The map table is another miss for me. The designers seemingly wanted a large table that big groups could gather around; on a ship, that would be where the maps are rolled out, so it’s a logical design move. But for accessibility equity requirements, one corner of the table is at a lower elevation so people in wheelchairs can enjoy the space too. However, once you cut a piece of the table and lower it, you no longer have one big table that maps can be unfurled upon, so why even bother with the map concept? Instead of looking like a place to roll out a map, the finished product looks like a postmodern harpsichord. Additionally, nobody wants to be on their feet longer than necessary during a long day at the parks, so why couldn’t the oversized table have been at an elevation that allows all guests to be seated, or at least put stools around the high table? “Key” alert: a standing dining configuration is neither courteous nor inclusive; it may be stylish, but it’s annoying for tired guests.

MK already has a space that contemplates what a restaurant built by seafaring people would look like, and it’s one of the park’s best themed spaces: Columbia Harbor House. It manages to capture the spirit of wooden sailing vessels through its construction, while creating a practical restaurant through the size and flow of the spaces. It’s full of details that reinforce this idea, without ever becoming cartoony or pastiche. While it’s clear WDI was trying oh so very hard to make this a convincing space, it still falls short of the real lived-in feeling WED was able to accomplish half a century ago.

dining_location_image_4506.jpg
Well said. I think a constructive discussion of the design decisions and materials used is fair game for any themed space. As a hobbyist I find this stuff fascinating.

The bar definitely has atmosphere, but many of the details feel too cartoonish and digital for me. The digitally designed messages on the community bulletin board are a good example. I prefer earlier WDI/WED's preference for attempting more "realistic" environments but at this point maybe that's just a personal choice? The digital stuff makes me feel like I'm inside a video game or maybe Toontown. Maybe it's a generational thing, maybe it's just accepted at this point that these are the tools of the trade but the cartoonish design aesthetic kind of flies in the face of what Adventureland is (supposed to be?) all about.

Overall I applaud the use of the space and the sincere effort that went into creating it. But in the back of my mind I can't help but compare it to places such as the Adventurers Club, Trader Sams, Jock Lindsey's Hangar Bar and especially the underground cave scenes at DL's Pirates ride.

B&B looks "fine" but also too artificial if that makes any sense. Not intended as harsh criticism, just musing on how and why the space was designed and built the way it was.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I respect everyone’s right to have their preferences - this is definitely more “fantastical pirates” than “realistic pirates”. That said, I love it, and I think people would have been howling if they had gone with something historically realistic here, complaining that it was boring and that Disney “cheaped out” on adding decor.

I do agree on the seating situation though. I just don’t understand the point of having a room where an unlucky few have to be on their feet. It would be different if that area was walk up and so you traded standing for getting to be there - but people will have to fight for the same reservations for a less comfortable experience.
They’re not mutually exclusive. The issues highlighted aren’t about there being too much decor. It’s about the decision choices regarding the decor. There’s no reason making things look like they’re built of stolen, salvaged and repurposed materials would have to be boring. If anything, it is an opportunity for details, where people can discovered what things were made from.
 

lentesta

Premium Member
Just got back from a preview.

It's very detailed. It's very pretty. There are multiple, recurring show scenes. The best analogy is it's Trader Sam's in a theme park.

The food items are simple, straightforward, and tasty. The drinks are also tasty. I believe @wdwmagic said they were all pre-made, and that there's not even the option to get a custom drink.

That's likely to get everyone in and out in 45 minutes. If you're trying to have a drink and some snacks, that time flies by.

It's loud, as you'd expect.

Eight drinks and all the food came to ~$240 before gratuity.

Service was great, with everyone playing a role. They'll play along if you want to be a pirate.

I'd definitely go back. It's just going to be hard to get into.

I count this one as a win.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
Suspension of disbelief is supposed to be a reaction, not an action.

It’s also amazing how quickly people say details don’t matter.

Except they have not skimped on the details here. It's a richly themed, interactive, fun, fantastical space. Frankly it's exactly what Disney should be doing.

Galaxy's edge is richly themed, but lacking the fun. It's so very strict in its story, and rightly criticized for missing the elements people crave, fun, life, fantasy, and theatrics.

I stand by that it's okay to suspend belief in a Disney Park, and this new space is a slam dunk for Magic Kingdom, and for bringing that world of Pirates to life in a fun, new way.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Except they have not skimped on the details here. It's a richly themed, interactive, fun, fantastical space. Frankly it's exactly what Disney should be doing.

Galaxy's edge is richly themed, but lacking the fun. It's so very strict in its story, and rightly criticized for missing the elements people crave, fun, life, fantasy, and theatrics.

I stand by that it's okay to suspend belief in a Disney Park, and this new space is a slam dunk for Magic Kingdom, and for bringing that world of Pirates to life in a fun, new way.
Details aren’t just stuff. They reinforce the story. The entire critique was about how the stuff doesn’t reinforce a clear story.

Nobody said it’s wrong to suspend disbelief. It being an action is just ignoring things.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
Except they have not skimped on the details here. It's a richly themed, interactive, fun, fantastical space. Frankly it's exactly what Disney should be doing.

Galaxy's edge is richly themed, but lacking the fun. It's so very strict in its story, and rightly criticized for missing the elements people crave, fun, life, fantasy, and theatrics.

I stand by that it's okay to suspend belief in a Disney Park, and this new space is a slam dunk for Magic Kingdom, and for bringing that world of Pirates to life in a fun, new way.
I suspend disbelief about many things these days 😉
 

Trueblood

Well-Known Member
Service was great, with everyone playing a role. They'll play along if you want to be a pirate.

(September 19th will be a fun day for a reservation.)

I've long believed that there are some places that rely on the cast members to make them worthwhile. In the context of a restaurant, at Sci-Fi Dine In we had a server who just didn't get it. He was good at his job, but he didn't understand the 1950's nostalgia around the drive-in. I suspect he wasn't raised in the US, and it made for an awkward meal.

What would you think of the experience if you don't have that sort of fun interaction with your server?
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
The digitally designed messages on the community bulletin board are a good example. I prefer earlier WDI/WED's preference for attempting more "realistic" environments but at this point maybe that's just a personal choice? The digital stuff makes me feel like I'm inside a video game or maybe Toontown.
This does genuinely annoy me to no end. With the number of period signs they create, it’s kind of nuts not to have a staff calligrapher and/or historical typographer. Also, if you’re going to have an illustrator imitate a woodcut, it would be cool if they understood how a woodcut actually worked.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
Details aren’t just stuff. They reinforce the story. The entire critique was about how the stuff doesn’t reinforce a clear story.

Nobody said it’s wrong to suspend disbelief. It being an action is just ignoring things.

The story is fine. As you said, you are being contrarian.

It's fine if this doesn't work for you, but this is great work from Disney, a richly detailed space, full of interactivity, fun, and theatrics. This is the kind of bar or restaurant space that feels like something out of Disney many decades ago.

It's going to be insanely popular.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
This does genuinely annoy me to no end. With the number of period signs they create, it’s kind of nuts not to have a staff calligrapher and/or historical typographer. Also, if you’re going to have an illustrator imitate a woodcut, it would be cool if they understood how a woodcut actually worked.

I can agree with this, but I think Disney has been missing the mark when it comes to signage, written props... for a while now. And it very well may be a choice, and a change in design philosophy on their side.

But it doesn't detract from this space, for me.
 

Virtual Toad

Well-Known Member
This does genuinely annoy me to no end. With the number of period signs they create, it’s kind of nuts not to have a staff calligrapher and/or historical typographer. Also, if you’re going to have an illustrator imitate a woodcut, it would be cool if they understood how a woodcut actually worked.
Yeah, the digitally printed stuff takes the guest right out of the intended time period into the present day. Digital design can work as long as someone takes the design and recreates it by hand. Not that hard to do and the results look a lot more authentic that way. It's puzzling to me why they don't take that extra step.
 

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
I understand all of that if the baseline assumption is that a unified message will reach everyone. That said, is that realistic in 2025? Our world is so very, very curated now, I’m not sure that an “every person” message the majority of the time is possible. Or, alternately, is your view that they should find a specific demographic to target (families, Millennials, whatever) and stick primarily with that demographic?

How true, with tracking technology the internet has become one large marketing engine... but one that's subject to providing inaccurate targeted advertisements. That's where the collapse of the linear media outlets is deterring the creation of broader scoped advertisements.
 

lentesta

Premium Member
(September 19th will be a fun day for a reservation.)

I've long believed that there are some places that rely on the cast members to make them worthwhile. In the context of a restaurant, at Sci-Fi Dine In we had a server who just didn't get it. He was good at his job, but he didn't understand the 1950's nostalgia around the drive-in. I suspect he wasn't raised in the US, and it made for an awkward meal.

What would you think of the experience if you don't have that sort of fun interaction with your server?

It would be much worse.

I told my wife it’s a bit like Chuck E Cheese. You know what you’re getting into. It’s more fun if you play along.
 

WorldExplorer

Well-Known Member
(September 19th will be a fun day for a reservation.)

I've long believed that there are some places that rely on the cast members to make them worthwhile. In the context of a restaurant, at Sci-Fi Dine In we had a server who just didn't get it. He was good at his job, but he didn't understand the 1950's nostalgia around the drive-in. I suspect he wasn't raised in the US, and it made for an awkward meal.

What would you think of the experience if you don't have that sort of fun interaction with your server?

I got a guy who was clearly new at Sci-Fi. Meanwhile, the car next to me got a guy who was super into it and yelling at the screen and everything. I'm still a little jealous.
 

JohnD

Well-Known Member
Just got back from a preview.

It's very detailed. It's very pretty. There are multiple, recurring show scenes. The best analogy is it's Trader Sam's in a theme park.

The food items are simple, straightforward, and tasty. The drinks are also tasty. I believe @wdwmagic said they were all pre-made, and that there's not even the option to get a custom drink.

That's likely to get everyone in and out in 45 minutes. If you're trying to have a drink and some snacks, that time flies by.

It's loud, as you'd expect.

Eight drinks and all the food came to ~$240 before gratuity.

Service was great, with everyone playing a role. They'll play along if you want to be a pirate.

I'd definitely go back. It's just going to be hard to get into.

I count this one as a win.
So can this be seen as an actual dinner reservation also with food in addition to drinks? I made a reservation for Skipper Canteen a little more than an hour later.
 

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