MK Piston Peak and Villains Land Construction Thread

[DrStarlander]

Why would a state licensed civil engineer risk their license and lie to a state water management district over this?

First, what information are you, or anyone that thinks they will simply bury the tracks or concrete, referring to? Is it this:

Or this?

Or someone else's interpretation, like this from Blog Mickey on Jan. 23, 2025?

"In the original permit, it was implied, but not explicitly stated that Walt Disney World would be filling in the Rivers of America. In the updated screenshots below, we can see that Disney clearly outlines that they will be draining the Rivers of America and filling the entire area with dirt to create a newly leveled and graded construction area. This will support the eventual construction of a Cars-themed expansion of Frontierland and the next phase of the work will be for a Villains-themed land.

It’s also worth noting that the permits call for the preservation and protection of the existing Walt Disney World Railroad tracks. This means that this phase of the construction will not impact the tracks in terms of physically removing or modifying them, but it doesn’t mean that there won’t be a temporary closure of the Walt Disney World Railroad at some point."

If you have more and better info, please post. If this is"the info" we are all working from, I'll offer my take:

What is provided in the drawings above is literally a callout statement or two about future ground elevation, a "mile-high" statement to the government agency responsible for what is land, what is water, what is high, what is low. That's what this was all about, the topography and water management at a big scale. And yes, "mile high" they are filling in the "low" of the RoA so it is "land again."

But that doesn't mean there aren't hundreds of considerations and tasks in executing that, from removing the old drainage systems for the river, the old track, concrete, etc. The docs above are not detailing every task along the way. That's not the point of those drawings or notes. That agency doesn't care that "the caves on Tom Sawyers Island will be stripped of good props but otherwise demo'ed," or "the rope bridges will be removed." It doesn't provide those details.

So why am I confident the "junk" and obstructions will be removed prior to construction? Because that area is going to be a moonscape of dirt and vast holes and trenches and activity for the next year, at least. Not just at ground level, but they will be sinking pilings, digging, forming,, and pouring foundations, and running all sorts of culverts, water, electrical, and other utilities lines. They are building mountains there. Building mountains -- and a whole new theme park land, essentially -- doesn't just involve the top 10-15 feet. They would not want to be trenching for a culvert or drilling a piling and hit the old tracks or concrete down there. That would be crazy -- in my mind.

Lastly, I bolded the Blog Mickey statements about the railroad because as we know, one of the first thing they did after closing the railroad was rip out a bunch of track. Blog Mickey's interpretations was: "this phase of the construction will not impact the tracks in terms of physically removing or modifying them." Did Blog Mickey arrive at that conclusion because the "modified plans" didn't mention removing the tracks? Probably. The point here is just because those modified plans don't mention something, it doesn't mean it's not going to happen. That is, the plans tell you what is almost certainly going to happen, but not everything that's going to happen. Hundreds of other tasks and steps-taken that are not mentioned are possible too.

Having said all that, and provided my thinking, I concede that TWDC sometimes does thing that boggles my mind, and perhaps I'm wrong. So I'll be interested to see.

 

[lazyboy97o]

First, what information are you, or anyone that thinks they will simply bury the tracks or concrete, referring to? Is it this:
View attachment 879580
Or this?
View attachment 879581
Or someone else's interpretation, like this from Blog Mickey on Jan. 23, 2025?

"In the original permit, it was implied, but not explicitly stated that Walt Disney World would be filling in the Rivers of America. In the updated screenshots below, we can see that Disney clearly outlines that they will be draining the Rivers of America and filling the entire area with dirt to create a newly leveled and graded construction area. This will support the eventual construction of a Cars-themed expansion of Frontierland and the next phase of the work will be for a Villains-themed land.

It’s also worth noting that the permits call for the preservation and protection of the existing Walt Disney World Railroad tracks. This means that this phase of the construction will not impact the tracks in terms of physically removing or modifying them, but it doesn’t mean that there won’t be a temporary closure of the Walt Disney World Railroad at some point."

If you have more and better info, please post. If this is"the info" we are all working from, I'll offer my take:

What is provided in the drawings above is literally a callout statement or two about future ground elevation, a "mile-high" statement to the government agency responsible for what is land, what is water, what is high, what is low. That's what this was all about, the topography and water management at a big scale. And yes, "mile high" they are filling in the "low" of the RoA so it is "land again."

But that doesn't mean there aren't hundreds of considerations and tasks in executing that, from removing the old drainage systems for the river, the old track, concrete, etc. The docs above are not detailing every task along the way. That's not the point of those drawings or notes. That agency doesn't care that "the caves on Tom Sawyers Island will be stripped of good props but otherwise demo'ed," or "the rope bridges will be removed." It doesn't provide those details.

So why am I confident the "junk" and obstructions will be removed prior to construction? Because that area is going to be a moonscape of dirt and vast holes and trenches and activity for the next year, at least. Not just at ground level, but they will be sinking pilings, digging, forming,, and pouring foundations, and running all sorts of culverts, water, electrical, and other utilities lines. They are building mountains there. Building mountains -- and a whole new theme park land, essentially -- doesn't just involve the top 10-15 feet. They would not want to be trenching for a culvert or drilling a piling and hit the old tracks or concrete down there. That would be crazy -- in my mind.

Lastly, I bolded the Blog Mickey statements about the railroad because as we know, one of the first thing they did after closing the railroad was rip out a bunch of track. Blog Mickey's interpretations was: "this phase of the construction will not impact the tracks in terms of physically removing or modifying them." Did Blog Mickey arrive at that conclusion because the "modified plans" didn't mention removing the tracks? Probably. The point here is just because those modified plans don't mention something, it doesn't mean it's not going to happen. That is, the plans tell you what is almost certainly going to happen, but not everything that's going to happen. Hundreds of other tasks and steps-taken that are not mentioned are possible too.

Having said all that, and provided my thinking, I concede that TWDC sometimes does thing that boggles my mind, and perhaps I'm wrong. So I'll be interested to see.

There are section drawings in the permit set specifically calling out for the existing base to remain.

 

[jah4955]

How much would you pay for a slice of the riverboat track?

Thanks for asking! .... because you just reminded me of what I would call the infamous "relic pins" (for the record, actual relics still give me the creeps, so that may have to do with my chagrin) I remember rolling my eyes when I saw them at the (what is now Disney Springs) pin trading store about 20 years ago. They would take part of an attraction (former & current), turn that part into confetti & put each piece of confetti into a little plastic bubble and attach it to a pin and charge $19.95 + tax. The most absolutely pathetic one of that series were pieces of old tires from Tomorrowland Speedway. It tempted me to pick-up leaves and cut grass from the sidewalks to see if anyone would buy those on ebay! I would consider spending big bucks for something akin to what's currently in John Stamos' collection, but I wouldn't give one cent for a part of the ride I couldn't even see while in operation.

 

[griffin ferrari]

Some photos from today

 

[Nickm2022]

There are section drawings in the permit set specifically calling out for the existing base to remain.

I would be surprised if they just fill it in. Given that both cars and villains both have multi layered areas (ie not flat like Toy Story Land or EPCOT). So I would be surprised if they don't utilize the fact that we're they're building is already part under the ground

 

[truecoat]

Its fascinating how the two companies work. As we see, Universal is rapidly removing Rockit with a HARD DATE it must be removed.

At Disney, they are not so good with dates.

Removing old coaster track is nothing compared to transforming an existing waterway/island. If you want to compare something similar, a large portion of the frame for the Avengers ride building at DCA was assembled in about a week.

 

[jah4955]

Removing old coaster track is nothing compared to transforming an existing waterway/island. If you want to compare something similar, a large portion of the frame for the Avengers ride building at DCA was assembled in about a week.

Since it's inevitable anyway...here's believing & hoping that they complete all demo/leveling as fast as possible (like they just proved w/Muppets Store...just rip off that band-aid!)...It was not fun seeing Horizons in various stages of being torn down over an extended period of time.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I would be surprised if they just fill it in. Given that both cars and villains both have multi layered areas (ie not flat like Toy Story Land or EPCOT). So I would be surprised if they don't utilize the fact that we're they're building is already part under the ground

Again I ask, why would the civil engineer submit incorrect drawings about this?

 

[Disney Analyst]

Let’s put this to bed, someone please find and share the drawings showing the plans to fill it in

 

[EricsBiscuit]

Agreed. They will almost certainly be removing the riverboat tracks next, and then breaking up and removing any concrete footings for the track and concrete in the riverbed. It would astonish me if anything were left as-is, and just buried. That would seem extraordinary for a professional, commercial project like this. But we're likely to find out in the next month or so!

Maybe when these guys are done with Rip Ride Rockit they can pop over and take care of the riverboat tracks.
View attachment 879574

Yes I would be absolutely shocked if they just pour dirt over the concrete. That would not be a good idea. They need to rip that out and pour lots of dirt and pack it in. Ive always gone by the rule of thumb, 2 ft of fill dirt for every ft you want to raise. Pack it down nice. Your foundation will never crack.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Let’s put this to bed, someone please find and share the drawings showing the plans to fill it in

Section A-A and Section B-B on sheet C-207 both state “EXISTING SOIL CEMENT TO REMAIN”.

https://apps.sfwmd.gov/entsb/docdownload?object_id=0900eeea96cfa2d0

 

[jah4955]

Yes I would be absolutely shocked if they just pour dirt over the concrete. That would not be a good idea. They need to rip that out and pour lots of dirt and pack it in. Ive always gone by the rule of thumb, 2 ft of fill dirt for every ft you want to raise. Pack it down nice. Your foundation will never crack.

Another reason why the opening isn't next year lol!

 

[Disney Analyst]

Section A-A and Section B-B on sheet C-207 both state “EXISTING SOIL CEMENT TO REMAIN”.

https://apps.sfwmd.gov/entsb/docdownload?object_id=0900eeea96cfa2d0

Thanks. I asked ChatGPT to analyze.

Yes — I found it on Sheet C-207 in the sections:

• Both A-A and B-B notes do indeed say “Existing soil cement to remain.”
• That means they’re not planning to rip out the soil-cement liner (the hardened base/layer that currently forms the riverbed walls and bottom).

What that suggests:

• The decorative/concrete edges, tracks, and mechanicals (like the Liberty Belle guide track) could still be demolished and removed.
• But the bulk of the hardened soil-cement riverbed lining will simply be left in place and buried under the engineered fill.
• This is actually common in site work — if the existing soil-cement is stable and won’t compromise compaction, it’s faster and cheaper to just bury it.

So the short version: They’ll likely strip out the hardware/boat track/etc., but the actual soil-cement basin structure of the river is staying and being entombed under dirt.

 

[DrStarlander]

Section A-A and Section B-B on sheet C-207 both state “EXISTING SOIL CEMENT TO REMAIN”.

https://apps.sfwmd.gov/entsb/docdownload?object_id=0900eeea96cfa2d0

Good info, thanks. You may be right about the cement river bed (it doesn't say anything about the steel track), it will be interesting to see. I notice it also says:

And they immediately ripped out some railroad track. So I take the docs with a grain of salt in terms of how broadly the notes apply, and will be eagerly watching, so long as we have a view at least.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Thanks. I asked ChatGPT to analyze.

Yes — I found it on Sheet C-207 in the sections:

• Both A-A and B-B notes do indeed say “Existing soil cement to remain.”
• That means they’re not planning to rip out the soil-cement liner (the hardened base/layer that currently forms the riverbed walls and bottom).

What that suggests:

• The decorative/concrete edges, tracks, and mechanicals (like the Liberty Belle guide track) could still be demolished and removed.
• But the bulk of the hardened soil-cement riverbed lining will simply be left in place and buried under the engineered fill.
• This is actually common in site work — if the existing soil-cement is stable and won’t compromise compaction, it’s faster and cheaper to just bury it.

So the short version: They’ll likely strip out the hardware/boat track/etc., but the actual soil-cement basin structure of the river is staying and being entombed under dirt.

There is no mechanical ride system infrastructure in the riverbed. The track is visible and is just a simple metal track on a series of small piers that are in turn on a mat.

 

[James Alucobond]

And they immediately ripped out some railroad track. So I take the docs with a grain of salt in terms of how broadly the notes apply, and will be eagerly watching, so long as we have a view at least.

I imagine they mean the land grading and whatnot.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Good info, thanks. You may be right about the cement river bed (it doesn't say anything about the steel track), it will be interesting to see. I notice it also says:
View attachment 879626
And they immediately ripped out some railroad track. So I take the docs with a grain of salt in terms of how broadly the notes apply, and will be eagerly watching, so long as we have a view at least.

That’s not how it works.

The actual presence of the physical railroad tracks has no bearing on water management. It is beyond the water management district’s authority and the scope of work documented in the drawings. The job of the site contractor who does this work is to stay away from the railroad tracks. It does not matter to them or the water management district if someone else comes in and removes them because it has no actual bearing on their job. What is important is that those working on this scope of work stay away and not think they can mess with the area as part of the means and methods of completing their work.

How the site is being modified and redesigned is within the scope of authority and work. There is no upside to putting one thing into the drawings while planning to do another. There are cost and time implications to providing inaccurate design information.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

Another reason why the opening isn't next year lol!

They are about to spend a fortune on dirt. If they are using some dirt from the retention pond they’re building and some they have from the parking lot that will help. Still, just moving the dirt and compacting it will take time and money.

Thanks. I asked ChatGPT to analyze.

Yes — I found it on Sheet C-207 in the sections:

• Both A-A and B-B notes do indeed say “Existing soil cement to remain.”
• That means they’re not planning to rip out the soil-cement liner (the hardened base/layer that currently forms the riverbed walls and bottom).

What that suggests:

• The decorative/concrete edges, tracks, and mechanicals (like the Liberty Belle guide track) could still be demolished and removed.
• But the bulk of the hardened soil-cement riverbed lining will simply be left in place and buried under the engineered fill.
• This is actually common in site work — if the existing soil-cement is stable and won’t compromise compaction, it’s faster and cheaper to just bury it.

So the short version: They’ll likely strip out the hardware/boat track/etc., but the actual soil-cement basin structure of the river is staying and being entombed under dirt.

That is truly shocking to me. That concrete bed was not designed to carry the weight of a massive structure on top. Let’s hope their engineers know what they’re doing or at least have good insurance.

 

[Disney Analyst]

They are about to spend a fortune on dirt. If they are using some dirt from the retention pond they’re building and some they have from the parking lot that will help. Still, just moving the dirt and compacting it will take time and money.

That is truly shocking to me. That concrete bed was not designed to carry the weight of a massive structure on top. Let’s hope their engineers know what they’re doing or at least have good insurance.

I certainly hope they know what they are doing, our lives are in their hands with every building or ride we enter in the parks. I've come out unscathed so far. Phew.

 

[DrStarlander]

If they are just burying everything in dirt, I do wonder why they're bothering to pump every last bit of water out of the river. Why not just start bringing in dirt and compacting it down?