MK New Beak and Barrel - Pirates of the Caribbean-themed lounge

[Casper Gutman]

Bringing this back to Adventurer's Club, I think this bar and that is a good example of the contrast between an older kind of "adult oriented offering at Disney World" vs the current trend of "premium experience for Disney Adults"

What made the Adventurer's Club "Disney" was its scale, the lavish, period decor and special effects, the number of eccentric, costumed performers and the uniqueness of the whole thing compared to other venues elsewhere in the USA. It was an experience you could only get a Disney, but there was nothing about it that was based on a Disney movie or property when it was conceived. It later became the stuff of Disney lore referenced elsewhere, but that speaks to how much it captured the imagination of those who visited. It was made with the hope that its quality and quirkiness would appeal to its intended audience, and it succeeded at doing so on the strength of its own merits, not with existing branding.

What makes Beek and Barrel "Disney" is its location right next to the Pirates of the Caribbean ride and association to the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. Even Rummy is a deep cut Disney Easter egg that's better appreciated when you know where he comes from. Would a similar, less "Disney" Pirate bar elsewhere have the same cache? I might if it found an audience organically like Adventurer's Club, but Disney doesn't want to risk that by not physically and visually tying it to the franchise it's based on. That doesn't make it bad, that just places limitations on it when you think your patrons want the only thing you feel comfortable selling (IP) and maybe need it to fit within existing park space.

This is absolutely spot on and tied to much broader and more consequential cultural trends - call it the “memefication” of society. Over in the film thread I’ve grumbled about “meme movies,” like Minecraft, part of the same trend. In a culture obsessed with endlessly exploiting a fairly small group of IPs, there are two approaches creators can take: attempting to recreate what made the property significant in the first place - for instance a particular emotional resonance with the audience achieved through script, mise en scene, performance - or they can mine the original for symbols, isolated from their original context. Audiences, of course, have the same choice - they can seek out and celebrate attempts to recreate the substance of the original or they can embrace the symbols. Both tactics can be integral elements of defining oneself and claiming membership in a particular group.

I’d say modern Figment is a prime example of these empty symbols. The modern Figment is a shell of the thing he was when most consumers grew attached to him, an entirely different and unappealing character that exists in one of the worst attractions Disney ever produced. The character is still stamped endlessly on merchandise and consumers gobble it up because he has become a symbol without a referent, a mark of the consumers identity and group membership, something that embodies emotional significance without actually evoking it.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Maybe they just want to offer guests what they want and pricey non-alcoholic drinks aren’t selling well.

I’ve asked this repeatedly and never received an answer - many guests would love to gamble a little at Disney. Adults should be allowed to gamble. There’s nothing wrong with adults gambling in moderation. Would you and everyone else in this thread support a highly themed gambling venue in the Magic Kingdom?

 

[KDM31091]

The bars aren't really the problem. The drunkards are. I think that's the optic a lot of people resent. If someone wants to grab a beer or a cocktail - enjoy their beverage - then go about their day. More power to them.

But that's usually not how things happen. See: Drinking Teams - When people come into a theme park with the express objective of getting hammered and wear attire that markets it to everyone, then yeah, it becomes a problem. When they make assclowns out of themselves - and become loud, obnoxious, and sometimes aggressive - it impacts everybody.
Not saying that is what it will evolve to at MK. But that's what it has evolved to at EPCOT.

Personally, I could care less if Disney sells alcohol or not in the MK. I do care (and very much care) if they don't have a plan control those who get out of hand.

This exactly. It has gotten to the point where I hate being in Epcot after mid afternoon or so. Besides wall to wall crowds in World Showcase, you have drunks and obnoxious people everywhere. People should absolutely have a drink and enjoy themselves if that's what they want to do. But the out of control behavior is getting old. I think/hope the 45 minute limit at B&B should deter some of the behavior at MK, but we will see. You can only have so many drinks in 45 mins especially when the place is slammed and the service is naturally slower.

I do think if the themed bar were not at Disney it wouldn't be this big of a deal. Of all the Disney youtubers, I have never seen even one mention anything outside of the bubble, where there are themed bars in/around Orlando. Obviously a Disney channel will focus on Disney, but they could at least mention that there are other options for a themed bar experience in Orlando. The Disney option now existing doesn't automatically mean it is the best one around. That is the behavior that irks me with Disney fans.

 

[BrianLo]

I’ve asked this repeatedly and never received an answer - many guests would love to gamble a little at Disney. Adults should be allowed to gamble. There’s nothing wrong with adults gambling in moderation. Would you and everyone else in this thread support a highly themed gambling venue in the Magic Kingdom?

Gambling venues are not family friendly in their current form, but these thematic bars largely are. We see this outside the walls of Disney: taking kids to patios and brewpubs is culturally normative amongst millennials. The “mama and me” phenomenon of cocktail bars are a thing. This beak and barrel venue is highly family friendly.

I doubt there will ever be in park gambling. But for now the company has drawn a line at their cruise ships and broader resort. Though it is a very thin line when major family friendly cruise operators like RCL have and will continue to offer casinos. I assume this will fall at some point (ignoring that I don’t know gambling state rules in Florida).

 

[plutofan15]

I’ve asked this repeatedly and never received an answer - many guests would love to gamble a little at Disney. Adults should be allowed to gamble. There’s nothing wrong with adults gambling in moderation. Would you and everyone else in this thread support a highly themed gambling venue in the Magic Kingdom?

Once again, another ridiculous analogy.

 

[Chi84]

I’ve asked this repeatedly and never received an answer - many guests would love to gamble a little at Disney. Adults should be allowed to gamble. There’s nothing wrong with adults gambling in moderation. Would you and everyone else in this thread support a highly themed gambling venue in the Magic Kingdom?

Is this something Disney is planning on doing? Are there casinos in other theme parks?

I doubt it because gambling venues are generally not included with theme park admission and are a completely separate activity.

One can have a drink in a bar at a theme park or have a drink in a gambling venue. The alcohol is ancillary to the primary activity of theme park or casino.

Disney doesn’t have casinos on its ships so it’s unlikely they would decide to have them in their parks.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Gambling venues are not family friendly in their current form, but these thematic bars largely are. We see this outside the walls of Disney: taking kids to patios and brewpubs is culturally normative amongst millennials. The “mama and me” phenomenon of cocktail bars are a thing. This beak and barrel venue is highly family friendly.

There are certainly family-friendly gambling venues, and a heavily themed casino in, say, the Stitch space would absolutely be safe and inviting for families. If the social stigma is the only barrier, I’d argue that children in dedicated bars is still frowned on. Most spots that serve alcohol and are welcoming to children are full-service restaurants or have some other pretense. I certainly might have missed some key social development - if so, I’d love to read about it.

I doubt there will ever be in park gambling. But for now the company has drawn a line at their cruise ships and broader resort. Though it is a very thin line when major family friendly cruise operators like RCL have and will continue to offer casinos. I assume this will fall at some point (ignoring that I don’t know gambling state rules in Florida).

 

[Casper Gutman]

Is this something Disney is planning on doing? Are there casinos in other theme parks?

I doubt it because gambling venues are generally not included with theme park admission and are a completely separate activity.

One can have a drink in a bar at a theme park or have a drink in a gambling venue. The alcohol is ancillary to the primary activity of theme park or casino.

Disney doesn’t have casinos on its ships so it’s unlikely they would decide to have them in their parks.

None of this answers my question. I don’t think Disney will build a casino in their parks either. But would you oppose it?

After all, someone who overindulges in gambling in a theme park casino is much, much less likely to negatively impact the experience of other guests then someone who overindulges in alcohol. We have several posters pointing out how booze has hurt EPCOT, and I suspect many of us have experience with that.

 

[BrianLo]

There are certainly family-friendly gambling venues, and a heavily themed casino in, say, the Stitch space would absolutely be safe and inviting for families. If the social stigma is the only barrier, I’d argue that children in dedicated bars is still frowned on. Most spots that serve alcohol and are welcoming to children are full-service restaurants or have some other pretense. I certainly might have missed some key social development - if so, I’d love to read about it.

As far as I’m aware current laws forbid children in active casinos. Including cruise ships. There would have to be a cultural change; but there is no such thing as a child friendly gambling venue that I am aware of.

If there are eventually, Disney will be late to the trend as they are with alcohol.

As we’ve seen alcohol become more permissive culturally we’ve seen smoking less so. Things change over time and currently these activities are not considered equal by broader law and societal norms. I never, ever, ever expect strip clubs on property in my life time.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

There are certainly family-friendly gambling venues, and a heavily themed casino in, say, the Stitch space would absolutely be safe and inviting for families. If the social stigma is the only barrier, I’d argue that children in dedicated bars is still frowned on. Most spots that serve alcohol and are welcoming to children are full-service restaurants or have some other pretense. I certainly might have missed some key social development - if so, I’d love to read about it.

But Disney doesn't have casinos elsewhere in their sphere - the Beak and Barrel issue is only relevant as brining alcohol/bar/lounges that exist elsewhere to Magic Kingdom ... so it isn't a relevant comparison

That said, if Disney decided to have casinos in their parks I wouldn't exclude MK and would see zero issue with it

As to other locations that are dedicated bars that welcome children, many craft breweries are very welcoming of families - some I frequent even does special family events (we went to one recently that brought in a petting zoo and pony rides). Now some will serve food too but the primary source of revenue is alcohol

 

[networkpro]

This exactly. It has gotten to the point where I hate being in Epcot after mid afternoon or so. Besides wall to wall crowds in World Showcase, you have drunks and obnoxious people everywhere. People should absolutely have a drink and enjoy themselves if that's what they want to do. But the out of control behavior is getting old. I think/hope the 45 minute limit at B&B should deter some of the behavior at MK, but we will see. You can only have so many drinks in 45 mins especially when the place is slammed and the service is naturally slower.

Did you read the two drink maximum per person ?

 

[plutofan15]

This exactly. It has gotten to the point where I hate being in Epcot after mid afternoon or so. Besides wall to wall crowds in World Showcase, you have drunks and obnoxious people everywhere. People should absolutely have a drink and enjoy themselves if that's what they want to do. But the out of control behavior is getting old. I think/hope the 45 minute limit at B&B should deter some of the behavior at MK, but we will see. You can only have so many drinks in 45 mins especially when the place is slammed and the service is naturally slower.

I do think if the themed bar were not at Disney it wouldn't be this big of a deal. Of all the Disney youtubers, I have never seen even one mention anything outside of the bubble, where there are themed bars in/around Orlando. Obviously a Disney channel will focus on Disney, but they could at least mention that there are other options for a themed bar experience in Orlando. The Disney option now existing doesn't automatically mean it is the best one around. That is the behavior that irks me with Disney fans.

The issue is not with Disney or bars, themed or otherwise. The issue is with the individuals. Just because alcohol is available, whether it is at a theme park, sports stadium, concert venue or whatever it may be, doesn't mean one has to imbibe. Everything a person does is based on the choices they make. It's not because of their friends, their relationships, their job, the economy, the weather, their age or that a theme park sells alcohol that is to blame. Individuals are responsible for each and every decision they make. Period. End of story. Do not blame any theme park or other venue that serves alcohol for actions of the immature, obnoxious and irresponsible people who cannot behave appropriately.

 

[BrianLo]

I certainly might have missed some key social development - if so, I’d love to read about it.

This is more of an entertainment venue than a traditional bar. It’s common in other vacation destinations (resort, beach clubs, importantly cruise ships) and Disney has been integrating themed bar spaces into their newer ship builds since the Triton class. Ones that are no longer distinct adult only districts as was their approach 10-20 years ago. Disney is just following the trend they’ve already been emeshed in for five years.

They are not the first mover in this space. There are bars everywhere on the Icon class and Royal has branded themselves more and more as the family line. They even have mommy and me locations in the children’s district.

 

[networkpro]

The issue is not with Disney or bars, themed or otherwise. The issue is with the individuals. Just because alcohol is available, whether it is at a theme park, sports stadium, concert venue or whatever it may be, doesn't mean one has to imbibe. Everything a person does is based on the choices they make. It's not because of their friends, their relationships, their job, the economy, the weather, their age or that a theme park sells alcohol that is to blame. Individuals are responsible for each and every decision they make. Period. End of story. Do not blame any theme park or other venue that serves alcohol for actions of the immature, obnoxious and irresponsible people who cannot behave appropriately.

That's a philosophical distinction between the autocratic and the realist.

 

[Casper Gutman]

As far as I’m aware current laws forbid children in active casinos. Including cruise ships. There would have to be a cultural change; but there is no such thing as a child friendly gambling venue that I am aware of.

It didn’t work in the long term, but I’m sure you’re aware of Las Vegas’ turn towards families a few decades ago, which produced things like a very highly-themed Star Trek casino. There are still remnants of that and earlier attempts to appeal to families in Vegas, with family-friendly complexes like Excalibur and Circus Circus.

If there are eventually, Disney will be late to the trend as they are with alcohol.

As we’ve seen alcohol become more permissive culturally we’ve seen smoking less so. Things change over time and currently these activities are not considered equal by broader law and societal norms. I never, ever, ever expect strip clubs on property in my life time.

If you could point me to an article about alcohol only family venues becoming popular Id appreciate it. I trust you and I apparently missed that trend.

 

[DisneyHead123]

This is absolutely spot on and tied to much broader and more consequential cultural trends - call it the “memefication” of society. Over in the film thread I’ve grumbled about “meme movies,” like Minecraft, part of the same trend. In a culture obsessed with endlessly exploiting a fairly small group of IPs, there are two approaches creators can take: attempting to recreate what made the property significant in the first place - for instance a particular emotional resonance with the audience achieved through script, mise en scene, performance - or they can mine the original for symbols, isolated from their original context. Audiences, of course, have the same choice - they can seek out and celebrate attempts to recreate the substance of the original or they can embrace the symbols. Both tactics can be integral elements of defining oneself and claiming membership in a particular group.

I’d say modern Figment is a prime example of these empty symbols. The modern Figment is a shell of the thing he was when most consumers grew attached to him, an entirely different and unappealing character that exists in one of the worst attractions Disney ever produced. The character is still stamped endlessly on merchandise and consumers gobble it up because he has become a symbol without a referent, a mark of the consumers identity and group membership, something that embodies emotional significance without actually evoking it.

A quibble, just because I find the topic interesting - I'm not certain that memes are empty shorthand for some broader narrative among younger people. I think the meme is a thing unto itself that represents a way of thinking that is somewhat foreign to those over 40 (self included).

I hear the kids are all running around yelling "67!" and falling over with laughter these days, a number that means basically nothing. It's not a sly reference to 69, it's not a funny catchphrase from a movie, there's no hidden meaning. It's literally just like a symbol to yell and act a little rowdy and laugh that is completely and totally arbitrary, removed from any kind of broader context - actually, with no broader context in any way desired.

 

[BrianLo]

If you could point me to an article about alcohol only family venues becoming popular Id appreciate it. I trust you and I apparently missed that trend.

Sorry I scooped around to half answering your other question.

I’m not sure if I have an article, just my observation of travel trends. Also being a mid Millenial with an absolute army of mid-late 30 year old friends with toddlers. Going to a brewery or wine patio venue seems socially acceptable to my broader Canadian lens. Maybe the craft brewery trends kicked it off?

Here’s the mommy and me bar that are on Icon class ships from Royal. It’s not even really a themed space, it’s just a mixed cocktail and mocktail bar integrated into the children’s area with the carousel and splash pad.

Things that come to mind on DCL venues are the Tiana Bayou bar where they frequently use the venue for the learn to draw or trivia’s and then of course the more “ornamented” spaces like the Hyperspace Lounge and Haunted Mansion bar that are all aged friendly until I think later into the evening?

I’ve long been arguing that Royal Caribbean are the ones defining family vacation trends and to that end, perhaps eventually a casino on a DCL vessel. But legally the kids can’t be in them so they’ll be Disney-Adult focused if they do come.

 

[Casper Gutman]

The issue is not with Disney or bars, themed or otherwise. The issue is with the individuals. Just because alcohol is available, whether it is at a theme park, sports stadium, concert venue or whatever it may be, doesn't mean one has to imbibe. Everything a person does is based on the choices they make. It's not because of their friends, their relationships, their job, the economy, the weather, their age or that a theme park sells alcohol that is to blame. Individuals are responsible for each and every decision they make. Period. End of story. Do not blame any theme park or other venue that serves alcohol for actions of the immature, obnoxious and irresponsible people who cannot behave appropriately.

Urging corporate and personal responsibility are absolutely not incompatible. You can absolutely blame companies for deliberately encouraging destructive behavior. We certainly did it with Joe Camel and other attempts to push smoking on children. That DOESN’T mean that you should litigate against it and it DOESN’T mean people aren’t responsible for their own actions. Those are separate issues. It just means being part of a mega corporation doesn’t absolve you of that responsibility.

Also, criticizing a company for its actions on its own property is not “autocratic” in the least.

 

[Casper Gutman]

A quibble, just because I find the topic interesting - I'm not certain that memes are empty shorthand for some broader narrative among younger people. I think the meme is a thing unto itself that represents a way of thinking that is somewhat foreign to those over 40 (self included).

I hear the kids are all running around yelling "67!" and falling over with laughter these days, a number that means basically nothing. It's not a sly reference to 69, it's not a funny catchphrase from a movie, there's no hidden meaning. It's literally just like a symbol to yell and act a little rowdy and laugh that is completely and totally arbitrary, removed from any kind of broader context - actually, with no broader context in any way desired.

I think this is kind of my point. The symbol - 67 - is a mark of group identification and symbolizes emotion without evoking it. Things like this have always existed, but they are becoming a dominant cultural mode.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Sorry I scooped around to half answering your other question.

I’m not sure if I have an article, just my observation of travel trends. Here’s the mommy and me bar that are on Icon class ships from Royal. It’s not even really a themed space, it’s just a mixed cocktail and mocktail bar integrated into the children’s area with the carousel and splash pad.

View attachment 879418


Things that come to mind on DCL venues are the Tiana Bayou bar where they frequently use the venue for the learn to draw or trivia’s and then of course the more “ornamented” spaces like the Hyperspace Lounge and Haunted Mansion bar that are all aged friendly until I think later into the evening?

I’ve long been arguing that Royal Caribbean are the ones defining family vacation trends and to that end, perhaps eventually a casino on a DCL vessel. But legally the kids can’t be in them so they’ll be Disney-Adult focused if they do come.

You brought up cruises earlier and I should have noted - you’re spot on. The themed bars are a model Disney perfected and grew fond of on DCL. It will surprise no one that I think they’re almost as bad an idea there. I don’t think the proliferation of themed bars on cruise ships necessarily indicates sweeping changes in cultural attitudes at large to alcohol - it’s just a model Disney really wants to import to land for many reasons.