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MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
That's my point - it was either this or some level of infrastructure change - take out Small World, etc ...OR modify the river but not remove it - at some point they felt this was a better option for reasons we may not agree with but also using a lot of data and analysis we don't have access to
They tore down half of CommuniCore for a building that the data said was a bad idea and was abandoned as soon as possible all because one guy was jealous of Michael Eisner. Just because it’s a company effort doesn’t mean it is a purely rational analysis.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
The Frontierland changes will not only increase crowds but, by getting rid of the parks only remaining vista, will increase the SENSE of the being crowded.

To put it simply - MK badly needs more open spaces, not fewer.

It should be noted that the most oppressively crowded part of Disneyland is the River. Vistas matter, but they only are a part of the equation. Alternative wide pathways can help.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
I know you're referring to either California Adventure or Walt Disney Studios Paris, but I'm not sure which one.

WDSP has much lower attendance than DCA

It has Nemo, Stitch, Marvel, Toy Story, Cars (occasionally Star Wars) and will soon have Frozen and Lion King too

But no one who has been there in the last 23 years would describe it as a Disney quality park

The expansion area may help, the one that's organized around a large body of water with lots of trees
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Fully agree - any they have access to a lot of data and info and analysis we don't
Not really…. There really aren’t any trade secrets to travel and theme parks. They know the exact numbers who visit the attractions…. But so does Len!

Maybe others in charge still would have chosen a different option but this wasn't done willy nilly
Was the decision to go with 7 dwarves after announcements were made Willy Nilly? If not, what’s your definition of Willy nily? Haha
 

TheMaxRebo

Well-Known Member
Not really…. There really aren’t any trade secrets to travel and theme parks. They know the exact numbers who visit the attractions…. But so does Len!


Was the decision to go with 7 dwarves after announcements were made Willy Nilly? If not, what’s your definition of Willy nily? Haha

They don't have information on the maintenance costs, the cost to staff, the cost to repair, the cost for various construction options, things like that which is or Len won't?

Not just talking attendance
 

AidenRodriguez731

Well-Known Member
This guy does appreciate everyone who reads my post for whatever reason. If you do not like my posts I think there is block functionality? I am not sure since I never used it, I enjoy reading everyone's posts whether I agree or disagree. No winky used in this post.
Nah I don't block people unless there's a genuine reason to, I just scroll past or comment if theres something to comment on. I don't need to be shielded from just some bad jokes
 

FettFan

Well-Known Member
Disney would never build an attraction like It's a Small World today. Even if they added Disney characters to it like Disneyland's.

Sad but true. The “Coaster Wars” of the late-90s/early 2000’s have now given way to “Dark Ride Wars”.

Everything has to be more extreme and more cutting-edge. And although they’re technologically impressive, they tend to lose a lot of the heart of the old rides.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
They don't have information on the maintenance costs, the cost to staff, the cost to repair, the cost for various construction options, things like that which is or Len won't?

Not just talking attendance
I’m not trying to argue by the way - you seem enthusiastic for this expansion - which is good! Parts of it I’m optimistic of as well.

But all of that can be estimated. Nothing is a big secret.
 

TheMaxRebo

Well-Known Member
I’m not trying to argue by the way - you seem enthusiastic for this expansion - which is good! Parts of it I’m optimistic of as well.

But all of that can be estimated. Nothing is a big secret.

I'd say I am more open to it than excited by it.

If the final execution is poor I will be disappointed just don't think it is automatically a huge downgrade until we see what happens.

Personally I wish they made a different choice but am going in optimistic since the choice was made / it's going to happen
 

MickMinn22

Active Member
That’s not the question though. Moana and the friendship boats do not have a wait either. Parks need things like that.

I do agree the parks need walk up or nearly walk up attractions (and as a parent with young ones, I feel that’s nearly all I ride now). MK still has plenty of those with people mover, IASW, COP, MILF, WDWRR, tiki room, Prince Charming carousel, dumbo, speedway, little mermaid, pirates, carpets, tea cups. I know some of those have waits but I feel you can consistently get on these with 0-20 minute waits. The big difference though is these walk on rides don’t take up 10 acres of the park.

I understand the rivers help complete two different lands and add to the sense of place making. I am hopeful they are serious on their consideration of site lines and use of water in this new area both maintaining some type of river front and waterfalls/geysers.
 

AidenRodriguez731

Well-Known Member
That’s not the question though. Moana and the friendship boats do not have a wait either. Parks need things like that.
Neither of those take up 14 acres of space. Moana is realistically where no ride could really fit into that vision and is a great use of space to add capacity that wasn't really there before and reduce the load on some other parts of the park while providing kids something else to really enjoy in Epcot. The friendship boats are transportation service more so and help people get around the resort so that's not really a comparison because it's actually doing something and moving you somewhere. It would be like saying "the monorail has no wait so its useless" it's efficient and has a purpose while taking up minimal if any space that wouldn't already be taken up.
 

AidenRodriguez731

Well-Known Member
Yeah… outside of the riverboat I feel the same way. Coco and Encanto are a better fit for the land, but I’ll see what they do and hope for the best.
It's still my wish that they use the current laydown yard for a Coco expansion after. I feel like they might've but their idea was something similar to Soarin' & FOP which would have a show building problem in the middle of Frontierland if done that way. I would prefer the DCA boat ride anyway but who knows, we might still get a flying theater but out behind BTM where it's easier to hide.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Neither of those take up 14 acres of space. Moana is realistically where no ride could really fit into that vision and is a great use of space to add capacity that wasn't really there before and reduce the load on some other parts of the park while providing kids something else to really enjoy in Epcot.
This is simply not true.

Journey of Water was filler for the Festival Center plan. The Festival Center made absolutely no financial, programmatic or operational sense. For most guests it would have been a concrete plaza with a concrete ceiling.

Non-water based interactive experiences absolutely could have fit within the CommuniCore West building. The capacity had been there. There were also alternative plans that would have featured more capacity in better form than what they ultimately cobbled together with CommuniCore Hall. They also would have been a lot easier and cheaper to accomplish than putting a bunch of water on top of a basement.

It doesn’t have anywhere near enough capacity to meaningfully reduce demand elsewhere in the park.

You claim all of this wild stuff about Journey of Water like it inducing demand for the park and shifting patterns, but also claim absolutely nothing could have improved visitation to Tom Sawyer Island.
 
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AidenRodriguez731

Well-Known Member
This is simply not true.

Journey of Water was filler for the Festival Center plan. The Festival Center made absolutely no financial, programmatic or operational sense. For most guests it would have been a concrete plaza with a concrete ceiling.

Non-water based interactive experiences absolutely could have fit within the CommuniCore West building. The capacity had been there. There were also alternative plans that would have featured more capacity in better form than what they ultimately cobbled together with CommuniCore Hall. They also would have been a lot easier and cheaper to accomplish than putting a bunch of water on top of a basement.

It doesn’t have anywhere near enough capacity to meaningfully reduce demand elsewhere in the park.

You claim all of this wild stuff about Journey of Water like it inducing demand for the park and shifting patterns, but also claim absolutely nothing could have improved visitation to Tom Sawyer Island.
You are right that it's not enough capacity to meaningfully reduce demand. But it does atleast slightly shift the demand. People aren't going from France to specifically go to Moana. But they might stay in Future World for an extra 20 minutes, maybe an extra 40 if they see Moana the character meet and greet is currently out. This does a good job at separating the large clumps as some people rush to very different sections of the park while incentivizing staying in Future World (I saw multiple families stay in Future World for quite a while going through Moana, the little play place, and the current Goofycore hall) these little activities kept those kids happy and out of the regular ride lines while taking up ridiculously little space. I believe based on the estimates I'm seeing, Moana has a similar overall capacity to the riverboat (150 at a time with 10-15 minutes spent) for again a FRACTION of the space with kids definitely asking to specifically go to Moana. This of course is not counting the Moana meet and greet.

Journey of Water is not a major demand sink, I'll fully admit that. But it definitely changes some peoples walking patterns as they stay for longer in the more attraction dense "Future World" and naturally staggers people.

And yes. I don't think anything meaningful could have been done to TSI to make it improved visitation to justify the space. This is 14 acres. That's an insane amount of space. That's more than Toy Story Land or Pandora. You can fit 2 Trons and 2 Remy Expansions in that. You can fit all of Galaxy's Edge in that. You can fit Mexico + Norway + have room to spare in that.

Why in the world would the most visited theme park in the world leave that space for a riverboat that can barely crack 900 riders an hour if the boat was jam packed? The people spoke, the average guest wants more rides and less ROA.

There are major problems in making TSI better.

1. You need to wait in line to ride a small raft to a little play area with not much for the average guest to do. Then wait in line to ride it back. This is taking up at minimum about 30 minutes with it being hard to advertise what there is to do.

2. What theme do you even use to make it better? I'm gonna cut it short. Kids do not care about Tom Sawyer now. I would need a new theme to actually improve. What theme could it even be that would make sense? Coco? Encanto? You need an attractor over there and Tom Sawyer is not going to do it.

3. You have limited space for full refurbishments. Operating on a small island in the middle of a river in the most busy theme park in the world is... tricky to say the least. Getting any construction equipment through there would be a pain.
 

The Underminer

Active Member
It is worse than hideous looking, in fact all of avengers campus fits that description
Avenger’s Campus’ theme allows it to be cheap. Which is reason enough to why it never should have been built.

Mission: Breakout is WAY better than TOT there, so I honestly am fine with it for that reason.
This is hogwash.

Every Target and Walmart in this country has a toy section that includes Cars merchandise, and has since the original movie released. They also have a bedding section that includes Cars sheets, blankets, pillows, and plushies among things in other departments.

They aren’t stocking that stuff as a favor to Disney.

Cars is a property, that from a business perspective has proven to stand the test of time.
Agreed. My little cousin wants to be Lightning McQueen for Halloween… for the third year in a row.

However, if Cars Land was bad or lackluster, it wouldn’t have been stratospherically as popular. Maybe Toy Story Land popular but nothing transformative like it was.

I mean, it single-handedly put California Adventure on the map and is still considered among the best if not the outright best theme park land ever.

But don’t underestimate the appeal of the IP itself because it took its already assured success (due to the original pre-Cars plans quality) to further heights.
 
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celluloid

Well-Known Member
You are right that it's not enough capacity to meaningfully reduce demand. But it does atleast slightly shift the demand. People aren't going from France to specifically go to Moana. But they might stay in Future World for an extra 20 minutes, maybe an extra 40 if they see Moana the character meet and greet is currently out. This does a good job at separating the large clumps as some people rush to very different sections of the park while incentivizing staying in Future World (I saw multiple families stay in Future World for quite a while going through Moana, the little play place, and the current Goofycore hall) these little activities kept those kids happy and out of the regular ride lines while taking up ridiculously little space. I believe based on the estimates I'm seeing, Moana has a similar overall capacity to the riverboat (150 at a time with 10-15 minutes spent) for again a FRACTION of the space with kids definitely asking to specifically go to Moana. This of course is not counting the Moana meet and greet.

Journey of Water is not a major demand sink, I'll fully admit that. But it definitely changes some peoples walking patterns as they stay for longer in the more attraction dense "Future World" and naturally staggers people.

And yes. I don't think anything meaningful could have been done to TSI to make it improved visitation to justify the space. This is 14 acres. That's an insane amount of space. That's more than Toy Story Land or Pandora. You can fit 2 Trons and 2 Remy Expansions in that. You can fit all of Galaxy's Edge in that. You can fit Mexico + Norway + have room to spare in that.

Why in the world would the most visited theme park in the world leave that space for a riverboat that can barely crack 900 riders an hour if the boat was jam packed? The people spoke, the average guest wants more rides and less ROA.

There are major problems in making TSI better.

1. You need to wait in line to ride a small raft to a little play area with not much for the average guest to do. Then wait in line to ride it back. This is taking up at minimum about 30 minutes with it being hard to advertise what there is to do.

2. What theme do you even use to make it better? I'm gonna cut it short. Kids do not care about Tom Sawyer now. I would need a new theme to actually improve. What theme could it even be that would make sense? Coco? Encanto? You need an attractor over there and Tom Sawyer is not going to do it.

3. You have limited space for full refurbishments. Operating on a small island in the middle of a river in the most busy theme park in the world is... tricky to say the least. Getting any construction equipment through there would be a pain.

Most of the issues you post were issues with its most recent state after decades of decline. Not it's intended.
 

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