Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens May 22 2025

[Squishy]

 

[celluloid]

Unfortunately they don’t seem to be getting the “best park in Orlando” word of mouth which is what’s probably needed to have any chance of a seismic change in travel patterns for central Florida.

This will service Universal loyalists, Potterheads (again), and theme park fans, but normies? I guess Nintendo might be the draw for them, maybe.

I don't know how one defines seismic in travel patterns.(sources will have different qualifiers) 22 days plus of park sell out without Annual Passholders in gratis or Team Members in, may counter that thought? And then there is resort wide changes that my not be noticeable but very beneficial such as hotels, dining and other ancillary shifts.

For example, would surpassing attendance (month for month) over EPCOT, DAK and or DHS qualify a seismic to you?

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

I had a chance to visit the park for the first time this past Monday during the Team member previews. Since I worked on the project for close to 2 years, I knew much of what everything was intended to be and many of the realities and challenges of building something like this. I managed the commissioning of the first building on the site. The visit was enabled by a member of the team I used to work in, so it was fun to get some 'war stories' that would have significance only to us.

It is a beautiful park and I was glad that most everything that was planned made it into the real world and we'll all get to enjoy it. Including a few things that when we initially heard of them, we suspected were traps to see who was leaking things to social media. They were regularly setting those sorts of traps in internal presentations.

No park has an unlimited, budget and there are always compromises and decisions that have to be made to stay on budget and schedule no matter who is building it. There are certainly a few places where if you are obsessed with finding faults and obsess over them, you can find them. I found myself looking for things that I knew were going to be challenging to see how they managed to resolve the issues with it. But even though I knew they were there and looked for some in the final build, I chose to not let that compromise my experience while visiting the park. I would encourage everyone to not obsess over those items, and keep their focus on what has been built and the quality of it.

Unfortunately, because of the virtual queue, we were not able to get on Ministry of Magic which was disappointing but it's not like I will not be back (actually going to AP preview on Saturday) everything else seemed well fleshed out and operating well.

Universal will have a lot to learn in the coming weeks/months with guest flows and attraction reliability to learn how to manage things. All of that is totally normal for something new like this opening up to the public. The TM previews are a good stress test of things but when the general guests started today with Passholder previews the guest profile changes and that will trigger another learning curve.

If you get the opportunity to visit, I encourage you to not go into it looking for things that are wrong or missed- just enjoy the first new full theme park built in Orlando for a couple of decades (water parks don't count). Personally, I don't think you'll regret just letting yourself enjoy it.

Thank you for the common sense post on all these matters that have been gone over and over on this site.
It's refreshing to hear from someone who actually knows what is going on and actually worked on the site.

I agree that most people do Not go into a park looking for "site lines" and go" OMgosh I hate that why did they do that???"Most people will go to have fun at all the attractions and actually enjoy the parks. As has been stated on here many times, all parks have their problems. I personally have never seen a bad site line or even looked for them. It was too much fun just enjoying the parks and being thankful for just being there.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I don't know how one defines seismic in travel patterns.(sources will have different qualifiers) 22 days plus of park sell out without Annual Passholders in gratis or Team Members in, may counter that thought? And then there is resort wide changes that my not be noticeable but very beneficial such as hotels, dining and other ancillary shifts.

For example, would surpassing attendance (month for month) over EPCOT, DAK and or DHS qualify a seismic to you?

I’d call that a huge shift, topping the secondary WDW parks would be huge, I’m still not sure Uni is set up for that type of capacity though, 11-12 million seems to be max capacity at the Uni parks while the (non castle) Disney parks seem to have max capacity topping 13 million.

Has anyone speculated how many people Epic could max out at?

 

[Andrew25]

I’d call that a huge shift, topping the secondary WDW parks would be huge, I’m still not sure Uni is set up for that type of capacity though, 11-12 million seems to be max capacity at the Uni parks while the (non castle) Disney parks seem to have max capacity topping 13 million.

Has anyone speculated how many people Epic could max out at?

On the capacity front, attraction capacity is very similar to DAK. But the park does have lots of dining & walking capacity. It really comes down to what Universal believes is the "right amount of wait-times.

At the moment, AP previews are operating with fewer than 10K guests. For opening, it seems like the target is around 18-20K.

Once Ministry opens, I think Universal will be comfortable at a standard 25-30K.

I don't think the park is ready for MK-sized crowds until major expansion happens.

I do see Epic becoming the 2nd most popular park in Orlando once APs becomes available.

 

[celluloid]

I’d call that a huge shift, topping the secondary WDW parks would be huge, I’m still not sure Uni is set up for that type of capacity though, 11-12 million seems to be max capacity at the Uni parks while the (non castle) Disney parks seem to have max capacity topping 13 million.

Has anyone speculated how many people Epic could max out at?

This is true. however, a capacity of people's spending is very different.

mostly arbitrary numbers, but relevant difference with EPIC for now until further notice...
20,000 people in a park who all spent 130 on average to get in is very different from
30,000 people in a park who thousands include employees and gratis entry from passholders.

Seismic pattern shifts for many reasonable would include spending pattern changes.

 

[Moth]

I think it's plausible Epic gets 2nd most popular park after it's first expansion of a new land (Zelda).

 

[TalkingHead]

I don't know how one defines seismic in travel patterns.(sources will have different qualifiers) 22 days plus of park sell out without Annual Passholders in gratis or Team Members in, may counter that thought? And then there is resort wide changes that my not be noticeable but very beneficial such as hotels, dining and other ancillary shifts.

For example, would surpassing attendance (month for month) over EPCOT, DAK and or DHS qualify a seismic to you?

Hard to say without any idea of capped attendance numbers. Is it a success if it cannibalizes business from USF and that park drops below DHS? Really depends on how many travel packages get sold, etc.

 

[celluloid]

Hard to say without any idea of capped attendance numbers. Is it a success if it cannibalizes business from USF and that park drops below DHS? Really depends on how many travel packages get sold, etc.

Well capped attendance numbers are irrelevant if one is getting more in attendance numbers. With team members and Annual Passholders still in USF and IOA, I don't think that it is going to cannibalize like people think, and far more are extending their stay than cannibalizing. Remmeber going to Epic and IOA, and tacking on IOA(or any order you prefer) is an incentive that will achieve going to all for many. Adding a day at USF onto their days at other Universal properties is going to be at a cheaper incentive, much how DHS, DAK, and EPCOT don't cannibalize MK becuase even the least favorite park of the four WDW for a family is much cheaper than their other favorites.

It will be clearer in more time passing, but one thing for sure it is going to expand the Universal portfolio stronger than a lot were before tickets were selling.


For example, because of pricing tier there will likely be a significant (seismic if you prefer) of families choosing to add a third/fourth Uni day at 90 bucks per person vs adding a first or second WDW ticket day at DHS for 120 per person.

 

[lazyboy97o]

This is true. however, a capacity of people's spending is very different.

mostly arbitrary numbers, but relevant difference with EPIC for now until further notice...
20,000 people in a park who all spent 130 on average to get in is very different from
30,000 people in a park who thousands include employees and gratis entry from passholders.

Seismic pattern shifts for many reasonable would include spending pattern changes.

Epic doesn’t have the capacity to handle 20,000 people.

 

[Agent H]

Epic doesn’t have the capacity to handle 20,000 people.

How many people does it have the capacity to handle?

 

[rd805]

Well capped attendance numbers are irrelevant if one is getting more in attendance numbers. With team members and Annual Passholders still in USF and IOA, I don't think that it is going to cannibalize like people think, and far more are extending their stay than cannibalizing. Remmeber going to Epic and IOA, and tacking on IOA(or any order you prefer) is an incentive that will achieve going to all for many. Adding a day at USF onto their days at other Universal properties is going to be at a cheaper incentive, much how DHS, DAK, and EPCOT don't cannibalize MK becuase even the least favorite park of the four WDW for a family is much cheaper than their other favorites.

It will be clearer in more time passing, but one thing for sure it is going to expand the Universal portfolio stronger than a lot were before tickets were selling.


For example, because of pricing tier there will likely be a significant (seismic if you prefer) of families choosing to add a third/fourth Uni day at 90 bucks per person vs adding a first or second WDW ticket day at DHS for 120 per person.

$120 / person seems pretty low for 1 day passes at WDW...although i haven't looked in a while. I feel like last time i priced a parkhopper it was like $240 which was CRAZY to me.

 

[celluloid]

Epic doesn’t have the capacity to handle 20,000 people.

Well first of all, the numbers were mostly arbitrary.

There is interesting to hear, what is your source?

 

[celluloid]

$120 / person seems pretty low for 1 day passes at WDW...although i haven't looked in a while. I feel like last time i priced a parkhopper it was like $240 which was CRAZY to me.

Yeah. I was just putting placeholders. So all the more reason people spend less to extend their stay at whatever resort were their main mission. Obviously there is a lot of cross over from both who want to try and do some of each.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Adding a day at USF onto their days at other Universal properties is going to be at a cheaper incentive, much how DHS, DAK, and EPCOT don't cannibalize MK becuase even the least favorite park of the four WDW for a family is much cheaper than their other favorites.

It will be clearer in more time passing, but one thing for sure it is going to expand the Universal portfolio stronger than a lot were before tickets were selling.

I think Orlando is becoming more of a time issue than a money issue, with 7 parks between Dis and Uni, plus other options like SeaWorld, Busch Gardens, water parks, cruising, etc I think time becomes far more valuable than money.

We chose to skip HS our last trip simply because our itinerary already looked exhausting, it would have only added a couple hundred dollars onto our trip but with 2 days of travel, 3 park days, and a 7 day cruise the idea of adding another day just looked like too much. Without the cruise I think we’d still struggle booking 7 consecutive days at the theme parks, we love theme parks but it’s a tiring vacation and walking a dozen miles a day in Florida heat is too much of a good thing.

I think 2 Uni days combined with 3 (or 4) WDW days is probably going to be the sweet spot for most people. Combined with a couple travel days that’s a solid, and tiring, vacation.

 

[Agent H]

I think Orlando is becoming more of a time issue than a money issue, with 7 parks between Dis and Uni, plus other options like SeaWorld, Busch Gardens, water parks, cruising, etc I think time becomes far more valuable than money.

We chose to skip HS our last trip simply because our itinerary already looked exhausting, it would have only added a couple hundred dollars onto our trip but with 2 days of travel, 3 park days, and a 7 day cruise the idea of adding another day just looked like too much. Without the cruise I think we’d still struggle booking 7 consecutive days at the theme parks, we love theme parks but it’s a tiring vacation and I walking a dozen miles a day in Florida heat is too much of a good thing.

I think 2 Uni days combined with 3 (or 4) WDW days is probably going to be the sweet spot for most people. Combined with a couple travel days that’s a solid, and tiring, vacation.

It’s a lot easier to make time than money especially with a recession on the horizon. Agree with the last point.

 

[Purduevian]

How many people does it have the capacity to handle?

Illuminating the bat signal for @lentesta . On his latest podcast he was talking about the capacity of the parks. I don't remember everything he said, but I think he was saying the 2 stage shows really need almost constant shows for the park to have decent capacity.

Offenders of low capacity attractions included Dragon Racer's Rally, Fyre Drill, and Minecart Madness.

 

[Architectural Guinea Pig]

What I got from the Coaster Studios video was that DK MM had 80 minute waits for one third the amount of expected guests… and they filmed during team member previews (?)

 

[MisterPenguin]

Well first of all, the numbers were mostly arbitrary.

There is interesting to hear, what is your source?

Unfortunately it is, but there's nothing they can do about it. I've been saying since October that their ticketing strategy is not only confusing, but strict when it comes to flexibility for guests. It seems like they're sticking to their plan, but it's an awful one IMO.


I have the same thoughts. I was there this past week and I don't think there's enough shade (they added a lot of umbrellas, but it's very hot, especially in SNW). I know that is a result of construction still occuring, but felt bad for the TMs working the SNW games as they were out in the sun all day.

Regarding capacity, I agree that the park will desperately need it sooner than later. Initial capacity estimates:

• Stardust - 2,400 (at a 60-sec interval, they are aiming for 50-sec intervals)
• Constellation Carousel - 720
• Wing Gliders - 1,440
• Dragon Racer's Rally - 360
• Fyre Drill - 720 (could be lower or higher pending # of boats)
• Viking Training Camp - n/a
• Battle at the Ministry - 1,700
• Curse of the Werewolf - 1,100
• Monsters Unchained - 2,057 (7-sec intervals)
• Yoshi's Adventure - 1,200
• Mario Kart - 1,700
• Donkey Kart: Mine Cart Madness - 1,200

Total Epic Ride Capacity: ~14,600
Current DAK Ride Capacity: ~12,300 (includes ITTAB & Dinosaur, but not Triceratop Spin- with Tropical Americas it'll increase to ~14,400) *Excluding walkthrough exhibits*
IOA Capacity: ~20,400
USF Capacity: ~16,000

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This is based off my Wait-Time model I continue to update based on Epic preview information and latest capacity updates.
*Battle at the Ministry will be very difficult to gauge initially

 

[TalkingHead]

Well capped attendance numbers are irrelevant if one is getting more in attendance numbers. With team members and Annual Passholders still in USF and IOA, I don't think that it is going to cannibalize like people think, and far more are extending their stay than cannibalizing. Remmeber going to Epic and IOA, and tacking on IOA(or any order you prefer) is an incentive that will achieve going to all for many. Adding a day at USF onto their days at other Universal properties is going to be at a cheaper incentive, much how DHS, DAK, and EPCOT don't cannibalize MK becuase even the least favorite park of the four WDW for a family is much cheaper than their other favorites.

It will be clearer in more time passing, but one thing for sure it is going to expand the Universal portfolio stronger than a lot were before tickets were selling.


For example, because of pricing tier there will likely be a significant (seismic if you prefer) of families choosing to add a third/fourth Uni day at 90 bucks per person vs adding a first or second WDW ticket day at DHS for 120 per person.

Also curious how Epic being detached from the original resort affects perception. The IOA-USF link, made literal by Hogwarts Express, is an interesting twist. People were encouraged to do both of those parks because of the train.

Epic is detached from them and could conceivably be seen as a separate thing entirely, especially for travelers who aren’t staying at Universal hotels. Have to wait and see.