News Disney plans to accelerate Parks investment to $60 billion over 10 years

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Oh…this one might be stretching it.

$24 vhs and $6 a month Disney channel and $5 movie tickets got people into the parks…worked like a charm

But people could afford to get to the parks. That pool has a leak in it that drains more every day. No matter what Steve insists.
Cause “data” and stuff like that
Yes those things did get people into the parks. The setup of the parks was similar to regional parks, where it was setup to get a large amount of people in each day who would buy food and merch. The tickets while expensive, weren't the barrier like they are now.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Uni: They are going to make a crap ton of money on Epic. It would be foolish to think otherwise (new wands, nintendo power up bands), plus the people that are already doing the buy 2 days for 1 day at epic = minimally 3 days of packaging & full money in their hands. The 1 day ticket is NOT cheap - and express pass is going to rake in the $$ once people see crowds are (at the worst) semi-high. I don't see Universal being in ANY trouble in the immediate future and will capitalize on the same way that WDW does (souvenirs & express passes!).
U.S. customers have a one-two punch...

1. Prices go up on all things which have a foreign origin.

2. Stock declines hurting their savings.

Both will lead to consumers starting to ration their money. Big ticket entertainment will be one of the first things to be jettisoned.

Now, if you think EU's newness will spare it from a consumer spending slump... that's possible. However, its siblings of USO and IOA... will likely *not* be spared.

And Comcast is already over-leveraged with debt, has Peacock in the red, and continuing cord-cutting losses. Comcast will not be a sugar daddy for Universal parks to continue to grow until the future looks more stable.

Even if EU is very successful, it'll take a decade to pay for itself.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Weren’t you the one scoffing at people mentioning the prospect of a recession for the past few years? Take a seat champ.
Yeah, and I was 100% correct. Back then. In that particular economic milieu.

This is now, and now is different from back then. Major changes from back then.

I never said a recession in the future would never happen. I was telling those who thought, back then, that a recession was immediate that they were wrong. And they were wrong. And I was right, buddy.
 

Dranth

Well-Known Member
it seems we are on the path right now that this opinion will either be proven right...or wrong. Good times. lol
I don't know.

We just had the country basically revolt over things costing more and now we are pushing policy that is going to make things cost more. I am just not sure any political party will stay in power long enough, let alone gain enough control to keep these types policies in place to see how it turns out.

That keeps any attempt temporary and easily reversed.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Some regional parks ARE great, but this is a small children’s regional park.

They’ve spent almost 25X more on Epic than Universal Kids. So in the grand scheme of things even if I’m terribly wrong, the upside on this one is about a 1/3rd of a cruise ship. It’s a sneeze in a hurricane.
From a revenue standpoint, yeah cruise ship will generate a lot more money. If this Kids park is successful it will get those families attached the the Universal brand. As the kids get bigger they will hopefully want to go to the Orlando parks.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
We just had the country basically revolt over things costing more and now we are pushing policy that is going to make things cost more. I am just not sure any political party will stay in power long enough, let alone gain enough control to keep these types policies in place to see how it turns out.
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
One last thing I want to add is that I don’t personally think they’ll stick to their convictions here. Eventually somewhere along the downward spiral someone will come up with the brilliant suggestion to take the foot off the brakes.

I think a CUSMA fight could have been protracted and concessions derived. But they can’t pick a fight with the entire G20 and win.

Like we may barely last days before another retraction of the policy, let alone years. I think they idiotically thought no one would push back.

Don't forget the penguins.

Tariffs are only one factor in all of this. The threats to other nations is alienating a lot of people. Domestic tourism will need to pick up some slack. Global sentiment has changed and may not be a temporary blip.

Disney is probably big enough that they'll see a minor dip in tourism at most. Expansion might be slightly less of a priority but overall they'll be okay. Not like smaller businesses near the Canada border that are seeing their customer bases collapse.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Climate change didn’t kill us so that’s good.

Now with the new administration in there I am sure the world is going to end, so now is the time to take that dream vacation to EPI…. Er, I mean WDW, because I am sure, this time, there is no tomorrow! 😉
 

FerretAfros

Well-Known Member
If an economic downturn slows or stop the new additions, then that same economic downturn will reduce the number of guests such that the additions aren't needed.
That's the mindset circa 2010 that brought us the Blue Ocean strategy that has hampered attendance growth ever since. Instead of recognizing that the soft economy meant people had begun spending more frugally on vacations (during an ere where the word "staycation" entered the lexicon), the-powers-that-be decided it meant that theme parks had reached their maximum market saturation and would never attract more visitors, so the only way to "grow" the business was to extract more money out of the visitors you already have.

This led to WDW's NextGen era where FPs were reserved months in advance, dining was booked half-a-year out, and everything from extended park hours to seasonal entertainment to fireworks viewing became added-cost experiences. Essentially, they spent billions of dollars doing anything they could to not increase park capacity.

As was easily predicted the economy eventually recovered, people resumed typical vacation patterns, park attendance continued to grow, and the parks were caught flat-footed. Instead of taking advantage of the relative-quiet period in the parks to do construction projects in anticipation of future growth (like, say, walling off 10 acres at the heart of a park for a multi-year reconfiguration), the parks had stagnated, become unpleasant to navigate, and most of the construction projects had to be done anyway (with higher costs and more severe operational impacts) after the parks were busier than ever.

Given the extremely long development process that most Disney projects go through, and how far behind WDW's parks already are on capacity, a period of low attendance is actually the best time to build new things (macroeconomic conditions notwithstanding) so that the extra capacity is there and ready to go when guests return. Heck, build something popular enough and it may even draw guests despite the economy; look no further than WDW's opening alongside the oil crisis.
Using MK...

Attendance is down compared to pre-pandemic.

But pre-pandemic was crazy crowded such that the GSATs showed that guests saw that as problematic. Not only because too many bodies, but MK didn't have sufficient capacity (for years) for that many people, and people couldn't get on enough rides to think their visit was satisfactory. MK was hosting 10 million more people per year than the park was designed for.

All the price hikes and park reservations were purposely designed to reduce that crowd. And it did. And Disney raised prices to make up for less attendance. And Disney raised prices enough that park profits still went up.

In order to increase the number of people in MK back to pre-pandemic levels (while keeping pricing high), Disney still needs to increase MK's capacity. That's extra super-duper profits.

Tho, I say all their extra capacity money should have gone in to the other three parks to make them more attractive, but... MK is king.
Using TEA's numbers:

In 2007 (pre-recession), WDW's four parks saw 46.99 million visitors (17.06M MK, 10.93M Epcot, 9.51M DHS, 9.49M DAK).

By 2019 (pre-pandemic) that number had grown to 58.77 million visitors (20.96M MK, 12.44M Epcot, 11.48M DHS, 13.89M DAK). This represents a 25% growth in attendance from 2007, with only small additions to park capacity to offset it.

In 2023 (post-pandemic "peak") the number was down to 48.77 million visitors (17.72M MK, 11.98M Epcot, 10.30M DHS, 8.77M). This is only a 4% increase from 2007, but despite minor capacity increases in the intervening 16 years the parks felt as crowded as they've ever been.

This is largely to blame on operational differences between the two eras. Everything from shorter park hours (less time available to see it all), to removal of nearly all atmosphere entertainment and A/B-ticket attractions (fewer diversions for when waits are long elsewhere), to single-sightline-focused nighttime entertainment (limiting the available/desirable viewing areas), to addition of FP/LL to nearly every experience (more people waiting in walkways instead of in queues; people in queues barely moving), to reserved seats for all shows (fewer spots available for the general audience), to a reliance on outdoor kiosks instead of using existing indoors paces (more walkway bottlenecks) has had a negative impact on crowding in the parks.

The 2023 park infrastructure isn't significantly different than it was in 2007; if anything, there's more capacity and guest-accessible spaces with additions like New Fantasyland, Pandora, Galaxy's Edge, and Ratatouille to spread the crowds around. But even with similar overall park attendance, 2023 felt much worse than 2007 because management has shifted its goals to making guests just-uncomfortable-enough that they want to spend extra money to make their day slightly more bearable.

There are all sorts of things that could be changed fairly easily/inexpensively that would have meaningfully positive impacts on the guest experience. But that would require the people running the parks to have an understanding of the business that they're in, and actually want to improve the guest experience instead of just improve the net revenue for the quarter. Who cares if the guests want to return again in a few years when we can make an extra couple bucks off of them today?
 

MR.Dis

Well-Known Member
Easier said than done if you have enough liquid to buy on the dip . Many investors net worth and or 401K are taking heavy hits in the last few weeks.
My uncle told me 50 years ago that if you invest, remember it is for the long term. On 10/9/07 the dow was at 14,164--the mortgage meltdown hit so by 3/6/09 the dow bottomed out at 6469. If you stayed the course by 8/26/13 the dow hit a new high at 16,072. Today, even after a horrific crash, the dow is 39,000. I go back to my Uncle, investing is for the long term. By the way, I am retired with almost all my retirement funds in the stock market and will stay the course -- I just have made a vow to myself to not look at my portfolio for a couple of months.
 

Surferboy567

Well-Known Member
This may be optimistic but it’s possible that many of these new policies are negotiation tactics and eventually the tariffs on certain goods may be removed all together. Obviously, not sure if that is the case but would be shortsighted to cut before we know if it’s a legitimate problem moving forward.
 

Batman'sParents

Active Member
My uncle told me 50 years ago that if you invest, remember it is for the long term. On 10/9/07 the dow was at 14,164--the mortgage meltdown hit so by 3/6/09 the dow bottomed out at 6469. If you stayed the course by 8/26/13 the dow hit a new high at 16,072. Today, even after a horrific crash, the dow is 39,000. I go back to my Uncle, investing is for the long term. By the way, I am retired with almost all my retirement funds in the stock market and will stay the course -- I just have made a vow to myself to not look at my portfolio for a couple of months.
And it's always time in the market vs timing the market. Those who are younger have a great time getting VOO or VXUS or other diversified funds at great prices.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
U.S. customers have a one-two punch...

1. Prices go up on all things which have a foreign origin.

2. Stock declines hurting their savings.

Both will lead to consumers starting to ration their money. Big ticket entertainment will be one of the first things to be jettisoned.

Now, if you think EU's newness will spare it from a consumer spending slump... that's possible. However, its siblings of USO and IOA... will likely *not* be spared.

And Comcast is already over-leveraged with debt, has Peacock in the red, and continuing cord-cutting losses. Comcast will not be a sugar daddy for Universal parks to continue to grow until the future looks more stable.

Even if EU is very successful, it'll take a decade to pay for itself.
If some others think a company can support all on the payroll with declining attendance then they must be in Wonderland.
 

Batman'sParents

Active Member
If some others think a company can support all on the payroll with declining attendance then they must be in Wonderland.
I'm worried about the cast members, whether in their call centers or attractions; their jobs are at risk due to markets and declining economic conditions, especially in their call centers, which can be outsourced. DIS pays higher than other employers in the area.
 

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