Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Andrew C]

I haven't seen anything that looks like this is the consensus at all. I've seen tons of speculation, by media and pundits. None by actual medical people.

On the flip side, where is the consensus that the COVID vaccine will only require the initial two doses and then a booster? At this point, it seems everyone is guessing. If we can beat it down now, maybe this is all that will be needed long term. But I don't think we know at this point. And that was sort of the reasoning around my original question. Yes, let's knock out the virus as much as possible now with vaccines. But once this occurs, what are we going to need as far as vaccines? At this point, to expect that we will just need a pattern of shots similar to measles (more or less) seems really premature.

 

[Andrew C]

For reasons we still don't completely understand, the measles vaccine stimulates a very enduring immune response that most other vaccine can't provoke. It even endures longer than the vaccines co-administered against mumps and rubella. This is why testing for rubella titers is part of routine prenatal care even with good documentation of a prior MMR vaccination, since maternal rubella infection can be castrophic for the baby. And also the reason why I had a short case of mumps as an adult.

Thank you! And I imagine it is way to soon to have a similar expectation for the covid vaccines, long term that is?

 

[Heppenheimer]

On the flip side, where is the consensus that the COVID vaccine will only require the initial two doses and then a booster? At this point, it seems everyone is guessing. If we can beat it down now, maybe this is all that will be needed long term. But I don't think we know at this point. And that was sort of the reasoning around my original question. Yes, let's knock out the virus as much as possible now with vaccines. But once this occurs, what are we going to need as far as vaccines? At this point, to expect that we will just need a pattern of shots similar to measles (more or less) seems really premature.

There is no consensus yet, simply because we're learning this all in real time.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And there it is with making up some extreme scenario and then declaring the goal impossible. The MMR vaccine isn’t the only two administered to children. The whole schedule of vaccines has high adoption.

What scenario did I describe that was extreme?

The vaccines with near-universal adoption are administered to children on a set schedule and effective for life. We facilitate this with a mandate to enroll in public K-12 education. There is no such gatekeeper mechanism we can apply to adults because adults aren't funneled through a single State institution like schoolchildren are.

 

[Heppenheimer]

What scenario did I describe that was extreme?

The vaccines with near-universal adoption are administered to children on a set schedule and effective for life. We facilitate this with a mandate to enroll in public K-12 education. There is no such gatekeeper mechanism we can apply to adults because adults aren't funneled through a single State institution like schoolchildren are.

Only measles, polio, hepatitis B and maybe hepatitis A and diptheria are effective for life. Tetanus requires regular boosters, pertussis, mumps and rubella, rotavirus and probably also meningococcus gradually fade.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What scenario did I describe that was extreme?

The vaccines with near-universal adoption are administered to children on a set schedule and effective for life. We facilitate this with a mandate to enroll in public K-12 education. There is no such gatekeeper mechanism we can apply to adults because adults aren't funneled through a single State institution like schoolchildren are.

Boosters every eight months is extreme and made up.

The vaccines administered to children are not all effective for life. Nor are they all funneled through public schools and in most states private schools have to enforce the vaccine requirements.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Who is "they", other than the strawman you just put together? I haven't seen this advocated anywhere in the medical literature.

"The most likely scenario is we will be needing annual re-vaccination, as we do with the flu vaccine."

Albert Bourla, CEO of Pfizer

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Nor are they all funneled through public schools and in most states private schools have to enforce the vaccine requirements.

Which isn't the point. The point is "nearly every kid goes to school."

Kids : School : : Adults : ________________

There is no analogue.

 

[Heppenheimer]

"The most likely scenario is we will be needing annual re-vaccination, as we do with the flu vaccine."

Albert Bourla, CEO of Pfizer

That's quite a difference for every 8 months, and if needed, it would be comparable to the flu vaccines.

 

[mmascari]

On the flip side, where is the consensus that the COVID vaccine will only require the initial two doses and then a booster? At this point, it seems everyone is guessing.

Agree, for the vaccine long term dose schedule, we'll know when we know. Not waiting to know the entire schedule before starting was still the right decision.

For the measles comparison, at least from me, I was comparing the infection and spread part. I thought I was clear that the vaccination part is more hopeful.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Which isn't the point. The point is "nearly every kid goes to school."

Kids : School : : Adults : ________________

There is no analogue.

Welcome to the new reality of this world where vaccination will be required for far more jobs.

 

[drizgirl]

for most people it won’t be a big deal, a minute spent at their target or grocery store pharmacy every fall.

My 2 days spent on the couch after my booster a couple weeks ago begs to differ.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

That's quite a difference for every 8 months, and if needed, it would be comparable to the flu vaccines.

Holy are you seriously that pedantic? Some people are being told, RIGHT NOW, to get the booster shot as soon as they're eligible, which is 2 months for J&J and 6 months for Pfizer/Moderna.

So some people, 2 months. Other people, 6 months. Other people, 12 months.

"8 months" as a flippant one-size-fits-all response doesn't really fit all too poorly in that dataset.

 

[Kevin_W]

That's quite a difference for every 8 months, and if needed, it would be comparable to the flu vaccines.

And luckily they are working on combo Covid/Flu vaccines so you could get them both with a single shot/trip, if that ends up being what is necessary.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And luckily they are working on combo Covid/Flu vaccines so you could get them both with a single shot/trip, if that ends up being what is necessary.

Annual flu shot uptake is like 50%. Why would this be any higher?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

My 2 days spent on the couch after my booster a couple weeks ago begs to differ.

Unfortunately there will be exceptions but most people only report arm pain and fatigue.

I don’t envy people in your position if it does become yearly, hopefully efficacy against serious illness stays in the 90s and an annual won’t be necessary.

 

[drizgirl]

Unfortunately there will be exceptions but most people only report arm pain and fatigue.

I don’t envy people in your position if it does become yearly, hopefully efficacy against serious illness stays in the 90s and an annual won’t be necessary.

Only one member of my family of 5 escaped strong side effects with the second dose of vaccine.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Holy **** are you seriously that pedantic? Some people are being told, RIGHT NOW, to get the booster shot as soon as they're eligible, which is 2 months for J&J and 6 months for Pfizer/Moderna.

So some people, 2 months. Other people, 6 months. Other people, 12 months.

"8 months" as a flippant one-size-fits-all response doesn't really fit all too poorly in that dataset.

Hey, you're the one who said "they" say we will need vaccination every 8 months, despite this not being the current medical consensus at all, and only obliquely supported by a quote from one individual, who actually said "annually".

Burden's on you, Cap...

 

[mmascari]

"The most likely scenario is we will be needing annual re-vaccination, as we do with the flu vaccine."

Albert Bourla, CEO of Pfizer

Anyone else?

Perhaps someone without a huge marketing incentive for this to be true?

Side note, Pfizer literally applied for approval for everyone to get a booster and based on the data it was only approved for people with elevated risk. Where we are right now.

That may completely change. But he doesn't have any data today to say that it will. At least not any data he was willing to present to make the case to the FDA and CDC.

If it changes, it changes. Maybe it'll be one more, maybe two more doses. Maybe it will be every year, or every 5 or every 10. We'll find out as we find out and cover those time spans with people that are vaccinated.

There's no sense getting worked up, or working up others with a scare that they'll need a shot more than once a year forever. Even less reason to use that as a reason that we'll never beat COVID and might as well just ignore it and move on.

 

[Tom P.]

Give it up, @CaptainAmerica. There is no reasoning with these people. The same folks who are yelling at you for daring to suggest it might be every 8 months when all the intelligent people know it's, er, every 12 months will be in here 6 months from now arguing how barbaric we are for not wanting it every 6 months when the CDC changes the guidance. You can't win.