Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Jrb1979]

I just downloaded the PDF of my Covid vaccine card to my phone

Would love to see US states do this.

 

[correcaminos]

For now I'm not laminating. When I got my third shot booster today the pharmacist wrote in the third line item on my CDC card. If there is a 4th booster shot next year there is a 4th line item on my CDC card that can be filled out by the pharmacist.

I'm not laminating either, but mine actually will be updated differently anyway. For many months all I had was a letter. Now that I've done a different trial, I'll see what they do. Likely they'll send a new card with all info on it and I'll destroy my original. Really it's not a big deal to have more than one but I still see no need to laminate.

 

[DisneyFan32]

For now I'm not laminating. When I got my third shot booster today the pharmacist wrote in the third line item on my CDC card. If there is a 4th booster shot next year there is a 4th line item on my CDC card that can be filled out by the pharmacist.

@Lilofan is the pandemic will be over next year as enough people are vaccinated?

 

[Lilofan]

@Lilofan is the pandemic will be over next year as enough people are vaccinated?

Can't answer that but the more that get vaccinated the better. My next vaccine shot is the flu vaccine in October!

 

[DisneyCane]

It’s not the case. We just need a lot more people vaccinated.

I hope to you are right. Iceland is extremely well vaccinated and COVID still exists there.

 

[SammyMF]

Seems a bunch of people are getting their booster but... to be frank... do you have to lie about whether or not you have immune deficencies or what have you? Do they even ask other than what your previous shots were? Getting one on sept 20... assuming I could even get an appointment that day... would be in time for my oct 3 departure date and allow some time for it to take hold. But, it wouldnt be the 8 months (close to 6 by then). Which I dont know if it would even be a requirement or if a pharmacy can decline to give one.

 

[maui2k7]

Not sure about that. The pharmacist asks for your card.

And if it is laminated what are they going to do? Say you can’t get a booster? I highly doubt that. CVS for example has all of you vaccine data online for you to print out.

 

[Andrew C]

do you have to lie about whether or not you have immune deficencies or what have you?

Yes you do. And the pharmacy won’t care.

 

[disneygeek90]

And if it is laminated what are they going to do? Say you can’t get a booster? I highly doubt that. CVS for example has all of you vaccine data online for you to print out.

I am pretty sure my friend forgot to bring his card to his second visit. They looked him up in the system and then wrote him a new card with both dates. Not sure what happens if you didn’t go to the same location (I got one shot at Walgreens and the other at CVS for instance) but that seems reasonable.

 

[Lilofan]

Yes you do. And the pharmacy won’t care.

The one item the pharmacy did spend a few minutes ensuring is who to bill for the booster shot when the pharmacist asked for your form of insurance to input into the computer before you rolled up your sleeve.

 

[drizgirl]

The one item the pharmacy did spend a few minutes ensuring is who to bill for the booster shot when the pharmacist asked for your form of insurance to input into the computer before you rolled up your sleeve.

Or tell them you are uninsured.

 

[maui2k7]

I am pretty sure my friend forgot to bring his card to his second visit. They looked him up in the system and then wrote him a new card with both dates. Not sure what happens if you didn’t go to the same location (I got one shot at Walgreens and the other at CVS for instance) but that seems reasonable.

My doctor was able to look up my vaccination status somehow - a database somewhere? Insurance company? No idea but the data is available.

 

[Timmay]

For now, I will wait my turn, as we are being asked to do.

Why you shouldn't rush to get a COVID-19 vaccine booster shot before it's your turn | MyCentralOregon.com - Horizon Broadcasting Group, LLC

iStock/lechatnoir (NEW YORK) -- In the next month, millions of Americans will get ready to roll up their sleeves for a third dose of the COVID-19 vaccine. But when it comes to booster shots, it's

www.mycentraloregon.com

 

[danlb_2000]

There was a poster in this thread several days ago saying that she had covid and an anti parasitic drug was one of the things her doctor told her to take.

There are two different issues here. There is Ivermectin that is appropriate for human use, and just like hydroxychloroquine there has been debate over whether it is effective or not for the treatment of Covid. The other part of this is people taking Ivermectin intended for animals which would have a higher dose then is safe for humans.

 

[The Mrs]

There are two different issues here. There is Ivermectin that is appropriate for human use, and just like hydroxychloroquine there has been debate over whether it is effective or not for the treatment of Covid. The other part of this is people taking Ivermectin intended for animals which would have a higher dose then is safe for humans.

Agreed, and I just saw this in my evening email from The Washington Post,

"Mississippi State Epidemiologist Paul Byers warned that “at least 70 percent of the recent calls” to poison control have been related to the ingestion of ivermectin “purchased at livestock supply centers."

 

[Club34]

OK, so a lot of information to go over here, and to adequately explain things, we need to take kind of a deep dive into biochemistry and immunology. Like a lot of things in medicine, you can't give a quick answer without an understanding of some of the underlying concepts.

First of all, we need a solid definition of what constitutes a "protein" and what makes one protein different from another. Ask someone on the street, and to the question of "What is a protein?", they might reply "It's something we eat", which although true, is not a particularly useful answer. So, here we go... proteins are large biochemical molecules made up of long chains of amino acids. Almost every protein in every living organism is made of just 20 different amino acids. The genetic code (DNA and RNA) specifies the exact amino acid sequence in every protein. The primary sequence of the amino acids determines the how the chain folds over on itself, and this three dimensional folding is what gives each protein its unique chemical and physical properties. The average protein contains a chain of about 500 amino acids, so given 20 potential different building blocks that can be used for each link in the chain, the sheer raw number of possible unique configurations of just an average sized protein is an almost unfathomably large number. Kind of like a box of Legos contains a limited amount of different sized pieces, but there's an almost infinite number of ways they can be put together.

In addition to the primary sequence, the 3 dimensional shape, and therefore, the way a protein functions is influenced by its immediate environment: the temperature, the electrical charges of other molecules in the vicinity, the chemical composition of the environment, including the pH, concentrations gradients, etc. Every protein has a range of all of these parameters where it functions optimally. Take it outside those parameters, and the 3 dimensional folding will alter, thus stopping the protein from its primary function or even damaging it. Some proteins function in the unique environment inside particular cells, some on the surface, and a few, like antibodies, insulin, and clotting factors, to name just some examples, maintain their optimal configuration flowing through the blood.

In every organism with an immune system, all proteins contain a semi-unique residue of protein and carbohydrates that serves as a marker of "self", so that the surveillance systems of the immune system don't set off the alarms and attack that particular organism. In humans, this is known as the "human leukocyte antigen", or, HLA. Any protein (and some large non-protein molecules) that don't express that organisms particular HLA sequence sets off the alarms as "foreign", and generally gets picked up and degraded. Obviously, this system doesn't work perfectly, or we wouldn't have autoimmune diseases.

Now, to answer your question about the spike proteins in this study, and the spike proteins in the vaccine. Other than some minor but crucial amino acid changes amongst the variants, they are functionally the same. But is this relevant? Almost certainly not.

First of all, the study you posted was an in vitro study, which is relevant to the specific question the researchers were trying to answer, but much less relevant to the vaccines. What they found in the study was that the mere presence of the spike protein binding to the ACE receptors of the lung was sufficient to cause a short activation of the complement system, even without the viral genetic material being injected into the target cells. Complement in this context is a localized chemical response that cells give off when infected with a virus, that gets amplified by the surrounding cells and summons the specialized immune cells (macrophages, neutrophils, T lymphocytes) to the area. I think the key here is that the spike protein alone caused a relatively brief pro-inflammatory response. This was somewhat of an unexpected finding. In the context of an active infection, where the lung endothelium gets constantly bombarded with viral particles (and by extension, the spike proteins on the surface), this may be significant. If these results held in vivo, that would mean that spike proteins are effectively a "force multiplier" (in army-speak), because they add an additional factor that provokes more inflammation.

Now, back to proteins a bit, specifically the spike protein generated from the mRNA vaccines. The mRNA code is injected directly into the muscle tissue, where the lipid coating allows it to be inserted into the cytoplasm of the cells. This is where the mRNA uses the cells' own protein producing factories (ribosomes) to assemble individual amino acids into the correct chain sequence that makes the spike protein. The spike then gets exported to the cell surface, where, because it lacks the host HLA signal, sets off the immune cascade that brings in the macrophages. These large amoeba-like cells then "eat" the spike proteins, and while internalized, break them down into large fragments. These fragments, although they still contain sequences that are unique enough to be recognized as parts of the spike protein, are no longer functional. They have lost their unique 3-D configuration. Once the macrophages have traveled to the lymphocyte stem cells, they present these fragments to one stem cell at a time, until they find one that makes antibodies that can bind tightly to the spike protein fragments. This lucky cell then gets to multiply and forms the reserve army of B or T cells selected to recognize and attack the spike protein if it ever shows up again. At this point, the macrophage then completely degrades what is left of the spike protein fragments down into the raw amino acids, which can be recycled into something completely new. To use a Lego analogy, this would be like building a little Lego house, then breaking it down into large pieces. These fragments are still recognizable as parts of the house, although they no longer function by themselves as a house. And then, the house pieces are completely taken apart again down into the individual Lego bricks. Nothing remains that makes the pile of Lego bricks recognizable as the house they once formed.

OK, so where am I going with all of this...

1) To do the damage in the lungs, the intact, functioning spike protein actually needs to be in the lungs. The vaccine material is injected directly into the muscle tissue, with minimal penetration into the blood stream, and even here, whatever vaccine material enters the circulatory system only contains the instructions for the spike protein, not the spike protein itself.

2) Once the muscle cells express the spike protein, it gets pretty quickly gobbled up (as does any material the body recognizes as "foreign") by the afore-mentioned macrophages. Even if any spike protein did slip into the blood, the different chemical environment of the blood vs. the interstitial fluid that surrounds the muscle cells would change its configuration. And the immune surveillance system in the blood is about a million times more sensitive than outside the bloodstream. Anything recognized as foreign here gets almost immediately bound up and eliminated, unless there's just so much of it being continually produced that it overwhelms the immune response. So, I seriously doubt any significant amount of vaccine-induced spike protein will be able to migrate to the lungs. The half-life of the actual correctly configured spike protein from the vaccine is relatively brief in vivo. The enduring effect is not from the spike protein itself, but from the B and T cells that are recruited to recognize and fight it.

3) There is no evidence, after hundreds of millions of doses given, that people have suffered any lung damage from vaccination (barring perhaps some exceedingly rare allergic reactions).

4) Lung tissue actually recovers from injury quite well, unless you subject the lungs to almost constant bombardment from smoke, debris, or a raging infection. To give an example, even heavy smokers, who coat their lungs with multiple times daily with all kinds of harmful combustion residue, need to maintain their habit for years or even decades before we start seeing severe reductions in their pulmonary function testing. I can not possibly imagine that even if a tiny fraction of intact and functional vaccine-induced spike protein made it briefly to the lungs that it could do any lasting damage compared to the junk that most humans inhale (purposefully or by accident) on a daily basis.

(EDITED for clarity since my initial post)

Summary coming...

To be continued with a summary.

See everyone... Was that so hard? Answering a simple question.

Lol.

Thank you for taking the time.

My thoughts are (and again, I'm not trying to weave a conspiracy here)... Did they know there would be this "leakage"? Did they know that the spike protein would dissipate rather quickly or was it a happy accident? It makes some sense that they would as best as I can discern from your medical textbook. (still awaiting my medical degree after wading through that)

I have other thoughts pertaining to some other stuff regarding narrative but I may take that to the other forum.

Again...

 

[carolina_yankee]

Oh yeah, two classes coming up. Those that have and those that have not.

Unlike other similar divisions, those who have not can become a have in about 15 minutes and for free!

 

[JoeCamel]

Or

Or tell them you are uninsured.

In my case they knew I was over 65, hand over your card sir......

 

[hopemax]

People have used this thread for personal updates from time to time, and so that's what this post is.

@helenabear posted about having to say goodbye to her cat last month. Unfortunately, we had to do the same this evening, for our 18 year old kitty that I posted about when we were sharing our pet photos. The worst part is I'm still in FL until Wednesday and my DH had to take our cat by himself, and I didn't have a chance to say goodbye. Our Kipsy cat, had been struggling with his asthma and the poor air quality due in Denver due to wildfires, but before I left we thought we had gotten him stable and he was improving, so I thought it would be okay for me to go, but I still worried if something would happen. Over the last 24 hours, he just crashed. When DH took him to the emergency vet his oxygen levels were at 68% and in the short time he was there, they intubated him and it continued to drop to 50%, his lungs were full of fluid, and we knew that was that.

He is the all black cat in this photo.

Oh, are we doing this today?

 

[Club34]

The FDA followed up with this today -

I guess our FDA is unaware that millions of doses of Ivermectin has been given to humans around the globe for decades with a very good safety record.

Whoever at the FDA posted that or approved it to be posted should be fired. A more reasonable tweet would have effectively given the message to not take horse pills. This was a government sponsored troll and not helping in my opinion. It was a sick burn and really funny, I'll grant you, but we sure don't like the shoe being on the other foot.

Perhaps the energy would be better spent determining whether or not this drug has a place in fighting or preventing covid.

I would consider them victims of malignantly wilful disinformation:

Biologist to Tucker: If Ivermectin proven effective against COVID, it moots vaccine push | Fox News

Bret Weinstein says he and others have been 'censored' for their analyses that run counter to the medical establishment

www.foxnews.com

I'm sorry to have to be that guy but I need to pushback a little. I don't know if this was a new sitdown on the Tucker show, but in the last one Weinstein's contention wasn't that Ivermectin would render the vaccine moot in terms of its effectiveness but rather put into question the validity of the emergency use authorization of the vaccine.

The EUA stipulates that it can only be invoked IF there is no other viable treatment or prophylactic for a given disease. That's taking out of the discussion whether or not people think it works but rather the context of his position. If Ivermectin was effective in fighting covid, the EUA would rendered invalid. This of course will all be moot this week with the expected full FDA approval of the vax.

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Regardless of people's feelings of others' motivation, the either/or positioning of otherwise reasonable people in this pandemic is rather striking. We are going to need a multi-faceted attack against this virus. Looking for additional tools in a pandemic is not the work of a maniac. There are folks who legit cannot take the vaccine. Would we not want to find valid alternatives.