Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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GhostHost1000

GhostHost1000

Premium Member
lazyboy97o said:
The anti-vaccine movement is not some baseline constant we have to deal with. It is a growth movement and this is exactly how it is growing. If they didn’t test the safety of this vaccine maybe they didn’t for others. They’re not looking at the long term effects of this vaccine and they haven’t done it for others.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. In the case of vaccine skepticism, be it the COVID-19 vaccines or in general, extraordinary claims without evidence are being given credence against extraordinary evidence. Even the way people talk about weighing the risks of vaccines gives them a false sense of equivalency that is nowhere near equal.

Not devil’s advocate, repeating “skepticism” pushed by the anti-vaccine movement. There is no known manner in which a long term effect can arise, as has been stated repeatedly.
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I’m not anti-vaccine. I got it as soon as I could like everyone else should. I’m just saying with all of covid theres just a lot of hope guessing and speculation more than known long term science
 
Incomudro

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
drizgirl said:
Similar mindframe here. I have forgotten my mask in the car way more in the last month or so than ever before. I catch myself and go back for it, but it's crazy how I just keep forgetting.
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I forgot mine while walking towards Shoprite yesterday.
The change of seasons really does that to me.
It was a beautiful spring day, I was driving with the sunroof open, parked my car and started walking towards the store as I would have normally.
 
ImperfectPixie

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Incomudro said:
I forgot mine while walking towards Shoprite yesterday.
The change of seasons really does that to me.
It was a beautiful spring day, I was driving with the sunroof open, parked my car and started walking towards the store as I would have normally.
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The weather change has made me forget a couple of times, too. So thankful I keep a box of disposable masks in my truck.
 
T

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Incomudro said:
We don't know the long term of any of this, because the long term hasn't happened yet.
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I’ve posted it before but it makes no logical sense why they would. I’m going to focus on the RNA vaccines (Moderna and Pfizer) because they are the most prevelant. In less than a day all RNA from the vaccine is destroyed by your body (half life of minutes) and in less than 2 weeks all the spike proteins the RNA made is destroyed (half life of hours.). After that period the only thing remaining from the vaccine are the antibodies (and antibody making B-cells) and T cells your body has made to fight the spike protein. These cells do not change, do not mutate and quite frankly over time will slowly decrease in numbers. If those antibodies and cells were going to cause a reaction, they should do so starting within a month (to be generous) of your shots. Millions of people all over the world have gotten these vaccines with no major side effects your immune system cells are not going to suddenly change.

The real question I ask to those people are when is it going to be enough time, full FDA approval is only a couple months away max.
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Incomudro said:
We don't know the long term of any of this, because the long term hasn't happened yet.
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GhostHost1000 said:
Exactly my point
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That’s not really the point though. We don’t know the long term of anything ever until the long term happens. I only change my behavior if there is an anticipation that the long term has the potential to actually cause harm. I don’t change my behavior because there is always a chance of something going wrong.

In an extreme example I ate a bagel with cream cheese and had a cup of coffee this morning for breakfast. Since the long term hasn’t happened yet should I have avoided that breakfast because we don’t know it won’t cause an issue years from now? I’ve eaten bagels and had coffee before and nothing happened to me (just like I’ve taken plenty of vaccines before the Covid one with no issues) but I haven’t had a bagel from this particular place or their coffee. How do I know long term it won’t result in a medical issue. Seems pretty silly but that’s basically what we are saying about the vaccines. We have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that there is any potential for long term health issues but yet people argue its rational to not want to get it because there still could be long term health issues.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
GhostHost1000 said:
I’m not anti-vaccine. I got it as soon as I could like everyone else should. I’m just saying with all of covid theres just a lot of hope guessing and speculation more than known long term science
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You may not be anti-vaccine but you are repeating a baseless anti-vaccine talking point in a manner that gives it credibility. This is how these movements grow, by using seemingly innocuous means of suckering us into giving them credence. If they are right/reasonable about this one big issue then they might be right/reasonable about other issues as well.
 
ImperfectPixie

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
You may not be anti-vaccine but you are repeating a baseless anti-vaccine talking point in a manner that gives it credibility. This is how these movements grow, by using seemingly innocuous means of suckering us into giving them credence. If they are right/reasonable about this one big issue then they might be right/reasonable about other issues as well.
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Yup. The questioning "sounds reasonable"...but when you do actual research and learn about how vaccines work, it really isn't.
 
GaBoy

GaBoy

Well-Known Member
Heppenheimer said:
I will offer one slight caveat to your last statement, just for complete clarity. A vaccine can cause a long-term side effect. But this is through the damage caused by an event that occurs soon after the vaccine is given. For the example I often give of Guillan-Barre syndrome, although those that survive usually mostly recover, they will often suffer from long-lasting side effects that are the consequence of lying paralyzed in a hospital bed for days to weeks. If a vaccine triggered the syndrome, the onset happens relatively quickly, but the damage can endure.

I know, semantics, but an important distinction when we're dealing with malignant disinformation attempts.

Your point stands, though, that we simply have never observed problems with vaccines that present themselves unannounced months to years later.
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Your insight is amazing. My RN daughter was told by an oncologist at the hospital she works that the mRNA vaccines were unsafe to be taken repeatedly due to the fact that they target spike proteins and spike proteins are found in the body naturally; i.e. the liver (bear with me, I am not in the medical field so I struggle). So he suggested that this could create an auto immune issue in later years. This was really brought up because I asked her if she planned to vaccinate the granddaughters when approved. She understood from the oncologist that it wasn't a good idea because the girls had such a long time left in lifespan for this autoimmune issue to surface. I read your explanation yesterday to her that explained the short term mechanism and how such an autoimmune response was possible but it was a non issue in the long term. Great explanation! She actually then dug in a little harder and found nothing to back up the oncologists assertions and backed up your explanation entirely. She was a little taken back and chagrined that she had taken it on face value.
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Polkadotdress said:
Ugh...have been offline this week. Anyone care to catch me up on what the last 78 pages are about? Vax rates, a conspiracy theory or two, mask end date guesses, and a random unrelated topic of some sort?
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On the good news front the Orlando theme parks without a Mouse as their main mascot have changed their distancing to 3 feet and dropped the temp checks (Disney dropped temp checks too but no change to distancing). Orange County FL is close to hitting 50% of adults with 1 shot which triggers phase 2 and the outdoor mask mandate will be dropped for the county. Cases and percent positive in FL and nationally are trending down again as more people get vaccinated. The FDA is expected to amend the EUA for Pfizer to include kids 12-15 this week and Pfizer has also started the formal application process for full FDA approval for their vaccine which is expected by the end of May.

On the Disney specific front they have brought back Chef Mickeys, Cape May Cafe and Tusker House as family style instead of buffets and they announced the college program is coming back in June to add to the workforce. The Lion King show supposedly debuted today at AK. Things are ramping up in anticipation of the Summer crowds. They also announced a modified Halloween hard ticket event starting in August and they brought back valet parking if that matters to you.

The other 72 pages...vax rates, mask arguments and conspiracy theories ;)
 
F

FormerMember

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
You may not be anti-vaccine but you are repeating a baseless anti-vaccine talking point in a manner that gives it credibility. This is how these movements grow, by using seemingly innocuous means of suckering us into giving them credence. If they are right/reasonable about this one big issue then they might be right/reasonable about other issues as well.
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The trouble is, there is anti-vaxxers coming at this from both sides. Just look at our leaders in their double masks despite being fully vaccinated for example. The message should be, the vaccines work, they are effective and safe, we believe they work and are modeling that belief. But no. You get the maniacs saying they are gonna kill you and the maniacs saying they aren’t 100% so nothing can change. It’s foolishness.

As an aside...we were talking about why people weren’t bothering to get vaccinated, since their lives won’t change. Here’s a very interesting chart...



182AA022-57F7-490B-A0BB-E4EC7E3D127C.jpeg
 
Aries1975

Aries1975

Well-Known Member
It is crazy to try to keep up with this thread. Everytime I jump 50 pages, I need to jump 50 more.

I took my first shot (Moderna) yesterday. I purposefully scheduled both my shots on Fridays in case of side effects. It took a bit to find a Friday appointment.

Also, my employer expects all of us (with medical and religious exemptions) to receive our second shot by June 28th.

We are keeping our fingers crossed for a November Disney cruise. We assume 14 year old son will need vaccine to board.
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
FormerMember said:
The trouble is, there is anti-vaxxers coming at this from both sides. Just look at our leaders in their double masks despite being fully vaccinated for example. The message should be, the vaccines work, they are effective and safe, we believe they work and are modeling that belief. But no. You get the maniacs saying they are gonna kill you and the maniacs saying they aren’t 100% so nothing can change. It’s foolishness.

As an aside...we were talking about why people weren’t bothering to get vaccinated, since their lives won’t change. Here’s a very interesting chart...



View attachment 555732
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This is why every state should have a percent vaccinated target for lifting restrictions. In PA now we know that once 70% of adults have gotten the vaccine the mask mandate is gone. Lets see those people put their money where their mouth is or in this case since the vaccine is free all they have to do is roll their sleeve up. If the only way to get these people vaccinated is to tie the removal of restrictions to vaccination rate then in theory we should not remove any restrictions now and actually should be adding more to make it even more of a good deal to get vaccinated. I’m sure that wouldn’t go over very well.

If these people want the mask and distancing requirements to be dropped for them personally as soon as they are vaccinated the only way to do that is with full vaccine passports. Ironically the demographic that shows the biggest increase in eagerness after dropping mandates is the one most opposed to vaccine passports. My guess is that those people just want to see the rules changed to no mask as soon as they are vaccinated and then they just will, stop wearing the mask even if not vaccinated. The best compromise is to set a community vaccination percent we can all work towards. Then if you won’t get it you are part of the problem and if you do we all get 1 person closer to a return to normal.
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Aries1975 said:
It is crazy to try to keep up with this thread. Everytime I jump 50 pages, I need to jump 50 more.

I took my first shot (Moderna) yesterday. I purposefully scheduled both my shots on Fridays in case of side effects. It took a bit to find a Friday appointment.

Also, my employer expects all of us (with medical and religious exemptions) to receive our second shot by June 28th.

We are keeping our fingers crossed for a November Disney cruise. We assume 14 year old son will need vaccine to board.
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I think you have a real good shot at both having your 14 year old vaccinated and having DCL back by November. I’ve been wrong about as much as I’ve been right on predicting stuff related to Covid so take it with a grain of salt ;). I feel pretty confident about that prediction though. The only caveat is you may have to fly to Houston or Baltimore or New Orleans to get on the ship if the Governor holds firm on his order. DCL is starting up limited cruises in the U.K. soon so hopefully back in business in the Caribbean by the Fall while following the CDC guidelines :)
 
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