Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[havoc315]

Don't you mean, they "were" part of the problem?

Wait, you think there are 90 million people who think China is tracking us with the vaccines? Do you have source for that?

No, I don't think 90 million people think China is tracking us with vaccines. I do believe 30-90 million Americans aren't getting the vaccine for a combination of different conspiracy theories. (China is tracking us, the Federal government wants to track us, it's a hoax in order to expand government control, etc, etc).

 

[Parker in NYC]

Well, okay, I guess we need to agree on parameters here. Are we saying that 100% open is when the government, at both the state and local levels, has removed all mandates and businesses are free to do as they choose? Or are we saying that it's 100% open when all businesses have chosen to return to full, normal operation with no restrictions? Because businesses can choose to impose whatever restrictions they want for as long as they want. But I thought the goal that was being referenced by the July 1st date was that the government was hoping to remove all mandates by then.

100% reopen means Broadway. 100% means my company (a nation-wide organization which still has us all working remotely) with headquarters in the financial district. Those have been the litmus tests for me since this thing began (you can set a calendar alert to review my history here, of course). Also, the city has been throwing out "arbitrary" numbers for a while now. If they say the city is open 100% with no masks or social distancing, maybe private businesses will follow suit. But until I can get on a train and go to a) work, and b) the theater (Broadway), sorry... NYC isn't open.

Also, this is actually the SECOND time someone has "calendared" one of my projections. Who knew I was worth the trouble? Hint hint: they were wrong.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

If you come across a link to that it would be interesting to watch.

I can't find the specific one I was talking about...but these are still interesting.

How the Virus Got Out (Published 2020)

We analyzed the movements of hundreds of millions of people to show why the most extensive travel restrictions to stop an outbreak in human history haven’t been enough.

www.nytimes.com

How the Virus Won (Published 2021)

Invisible outbreaks sprang up everywhere. The United States ignored the warning signs. We reconstructed how the epidemic spun out of control.

www.nytimes.com

Watch How the Coronavirus Spread Across the United States (Published 2020)

It’s been two months since the first confirmed case was reported in the United States. As testing expanded and the virus spread, the number of new cases has multiplied at a rapid pace.

www.nytimes.com

The virus *cannot* hit us the way it did last year. It's mathematically impossible. We're not at herd immunity levels of vaccination but we're absolutely at prevent-2020 levels of vaccination.

If the vaccine mutates and renders the vaccines ineffective, it's not going to be good. Yes, they can modify them quickly, but then the virus will be spreading again while they do that and while we try to get everyone re-vaccinated.

We're not as out of the woods yet as some people want to think...we're in a race against the virus.

 

[Dranth]

Correct. The folks I know, and this is obviously anecdotal, since I am not a pollster or anything....

They aren't anti-vax. In fact, they are pro vax. Kids all vaxxed up, they are all vaxxed up. No problems at all. What I always hear is...

"I'm not afraid of getting Covid, and nothing changes for me after the vaccine, so why bother?" Or some variant of that. These people aren't going viral fighting in grocery stores about masks. They are regular people who follow all the "rules". They just aren't interested in an experimental medicine that changes nothing for them. IMO, a very reasonable take.

Which really doesn't make a lot of sense. If enough people get it, restrictions get lifted and we are out of this sooner. The I won't do it because what I want doesn't happen immediately crowd is using some rather poor reasoning to justify their choices.

 

[Parker in NYC]

No assumption, it's right there in my profile. Anyways, Hi and Bye. On to ignore you go.

Enjoy unhiding this thread every time you return to it.

 

[Tom P.]

Which really doesn't make a lot of sense. If enough people get it, restrictions get lifted and we are out of this sooner. The I won't do it because what I want doesn't happen immediately crowd is using some rather poor reasoning to justify their choices.

You can think it is ridiculous, and it may be. But we have to deal with the reality of what people are thinking. And right now, there is a sizeable group of people who believes that restrictions are not going to be lifted regardless of what we do. They believe people are going to try and impose masks and distancing forever. And so they don't see a benefit to getting the vaccine to them personally. You can argue that they're wrong, but that's what many people think. The only way to overcome that is to show that there is an *immediate* benefit to them getting vaccinated.

 

[Bob Harlem]

No, I don't think 90 million people think China is tracking us with vaccines. I do believe 30-90 million Americans aren't getting the vaccine for a combination of different conspiracy theories. (China is tracking us, the Federal government wants to track us, it's a hoax in order to expand government control, etc, etc).

Most of it is wanting wait and see since its too new, it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories. What happened with the J&J vaccine is a perfect example. (FWIW I am fully vaccinated) But the only tin foil stuff is some of the posters here on both sides. What I've seen with my own eyes traveling is neither one of these extremes, and most people are living with the attitude of I'll live life and deal with whatever comes, not selfish, nor thinking everything is a crazy conspiracy. This thread is generally garbage because it's been pushed as all or nothing by too many, so the ones with common sense tend to just stay out if it because it's just not worth the time to bother with.

 

[Patcheslee]

No-appointment-needed is just starting to become the norm in NJ...

All 6 N.J. COVID vaccine mega-sites offering walk-in shots starting today

Anyone 16 and older living, working or studying in New Jersey is eligible for COVID-19 vaccines.

www.nj.com

Our county health department will got to walk-ins as soon as next week, but they want to get through the appointments scheduled first. However it will still be limited to the normal vaccine distribution hours: Tuesday & Wednesday noon-5pm or Thursday 10am-3pm.
They plan to do a drive thru clinic "sometime in May".

 

[Parker in NYC]

Also, @Tom P., for the love of all things Dolly Parton -- don't suggest that there's been any... oh, I shudder to even say it, "goalpost moving." I've been crystal clear on the board here as to my definitions of NYC's return to full operation. I'll send a zoom invite for July 1st to discuss.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Most of it is wanting wait and see since its too new, it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories. What happened with the J&J vaccine is a perfect example. (FWIW I am fully vaccinated) But the only tin foil stuff is some of the posters here on both sides. What I've seen with my own eyes traveling is neither one of these extremes, and most people are living with the attitude of I'll live life and deal with whatever comes, not selfish, nor thinking everything is a crazy conspiracy. This thread is generally garbage because it's been pushed as all or nothing by too many, so the ones with common sense tend to just stay out if it because it's just not worth the time to bother with.

The "I'll live life and deal with whatever comes" are a problem during a world-wide pandemic. Their choices have long-reaching effects on others.

 

[mickeymiss]

Do we know numbers are going down because of the vaccine? I live where mask mandates and lockdowns were strict but our numbers aren't moving. I think infection rates matter as much as vaccine rates. My state was better off last summer and fall than they are now. I think all businesses should be permitted to open and states that restrict domestic travel should lift it now but masks make sense to me until the rates are down everywhere. God forbid this shot acts like the flu shot and we jumped the gun. I don't think it's unreasonable to keep children in mind too even if they are low risk. I remember when the media would emphasize and scare the public about pediatric deaths. It was heart breaking. Most states dismantled school as we knew it because any risk was unacceptable.

 

[havoc315]

Most of it is wanting wait and see since its too new, it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories. What happened with the J&J vaccine is a perfect example. (FWIW I am fully vaccinated) But the only tin foil stuff is some of the posters here on both sides. What I've seen with my own eyes traveling is neither one of these extremes, and most people are living with the attitude of I'll live life and deal with whatever comes, not selfish, nor thinking everything is a crazy conspiracy. This thread is generally garbage because it's been pushed as all or nothing by too many, so the ones with common sense tend to just stay out if it because it's just not worth the time to bother with.

Polls show that 20-25% won't get the vaccine under any circumstances. There are others who want to "wait and see."
All the polls confirm that there is indeed a "wait and see crowd" but it's fairly small. The majority are willing to get the vaccine now. A sizable minority are truly against the vaccine, ever. And a small percentage are sincere "wait and see."

Most people I know are already vaccinated.
I know a small number who are "wait and see." This small number says things like, "I want to wait at least a year or 2"
I don't know anyone who is still waiting to get a vaccine soon -- they have all already gotten at least first dose.
And I know a small number who are taking the attitude of, "never, it's a hoax, it's a government plot, etc etc"

 

[Parker in NYC]

Polls show that 20-25% won't get the vaccine under any circumstances. There are others who want to "wait and see."
All the polls confirm that there is indeed a "wait and see crowd" but it's fairly small. The majority are willing to get the vaccine now. A sizable minority are truly against the vaccine, ever. And a small percentage are sincere "wait and see."

Most people I know are already vaccinated.
I know a small number who are "wait and see." This small number says things like, "I want to wait at least a year or 2"
I don't know anyone who is still waiting to get a vaccine soon -- they have all already gotten at least first dose.
And I know a small number who are taking the attitude of, "never, it's a hoax, it's a government plot, etc etc"

And we go round and round and round in the circle game. Sigh.

 

[Chi84]

i still haven’t seen any cases of “undue burden”...consequences and hardships?...yes. But none from an intentional attempt to create them.

the otherside of that coin is the many instances of dangerous actions and rhetoric for goals other than protecting health. That makes isn’t gonna be forgotten. Cause I won’t shut up about it

People will disagree on whether certain consequences and hardships constitute an undue burden. Whether a consequence is "undue" depends largely on the reasons behind it and the amount of good it actually does.

For example: I - a vaccinated person - am required to wear a mask outdoors at WDW. If that consequence is based on evidence showing I pose a health threat to others, then wearing a mask is not an undue burden. But if it's based on the Florida governor's belief that opposing vaccine passports will aid a future presidential bid, then it's an undue burden.

 

[havoc315]

100% reopen means Broadway. 100% means my company (a nation-wide organization which still has us all working remotely) with headquarters in the financial district. Those have been the litmus tests for me since this thing began (you can set a calendar alert to review my history here, of course). Also, the city has been throwing out "arbitrary" numbers for a while now. If they say the city is open 100% with no masks or social distancing, maybe private businesses will follow suit. But until I can get on a train and go to a) work, and b) the theater (Broadway), sorry... NYC isn't open.

Also, this is actually the SECOND time someone has "calendared" one of my projections. Who knew I was worth the trouble? Hint hint: they were wrong.

It's quite possible some private enterprises will never return to "old normal." I know many employers will be permanently integrating more remote workforce. Zoom conferences instead of conference rooms will be more normal.

But in terms of consumer businesses... restaurants, theaters, it is doubtful they would keep many restrictions longer than are mandated/CDC recommended. Sure, a poorly ventilated Broadway theater might continue to require masks. (which could also be included as part of the union agreement with the performers).
Restaurants may permanently continue as much outdoor dining as they can -- which I've come to really love when the weather is favorable.

But by July, I think a New Yorker will be able to walk into just about any restaurant, gallery, store, museum, just as "normal."

 

[CaptainAmerica]

It's quite possible some private enterprises will never return to "old normal." I know many employers will be permanently integrating more remote workforce. Zoom conferences instead of conference rooms will be more normal.

People keep saying that, but talk to the actual HR recruiters and... not so much.

 

[DisneyFan32]

It's quite possible some private enterprises will never return to "old normal." I know many employers will be permanently integrating more remote workforce. Zoom conferences instead of conference rooms will be more normal.

But in terms of consumer businesses... restaurants, theaters, it is doubtful they would keep many restrictions longer than are mandated/CDC recommended. Sure, a poorly ventilated Broadway theater might continue to require masks. (which could also be included as part of the union agreement with the performers).
Restaurants may permanently continue as much outdoor dining as they can -- which I've come to really love when the weather is favorable.

But by July, I think a New Yorker will be able to walk into just about any restaurant, gallery, store, museum, just as "normal."

is the masks is going forever for years? I'm scared about that one....

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

People will disagree on whether certain consequences and hardships constitute an undue burden. Whether a consequence is "undue" depends largely on the reasons behind it and the amount of good it actually does.

For example: I - a vaccinated person - am required to wear a mask outdoors at WDW. If that consequence is based on evidence showing I pose a health threat to others, then wearing a mask is not an undue burden. But if it's based on the Florida governor's belief that opposing vaccine passports will aid a future presidential bid, then it's an undue burden.

there’s no debate here...

burden implies knowing/intent. As in if the “afflicter” knows that the consequences of their action can’t or shouldn’t be handled by the subject.

that’s not the case here. Telling someone to wear a mask or not have a house party is not an undue burden.

consequences are another thing...elderly dying alone...or younger people in hospitals...was not a burden. It was a bad hardship/consequence of the right decision making process.

 

[havoc315]

People keep saying that, but talk to the actual HR recruiters and... not so much.

My wife is the head of HR for the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic Regions of a Fortune 500 company.... So yes, I've spoke to her. Yes, permanent remote work is very much the plan. For her company as well as others. They are cutting their real estate footprint.

 

[Parker in NYC]

It's quite possible some private enterprises will never return to "old normal." I know many employers will be permanently integrating more remote workforce. Zoom conferences instead of conference rooms will be more normal.

But in terms of consumer businesses... restaurants, theaters, it is doubtful they would keep many restrictions longer than are mandated/CDC recommended. Sure, a poorly ventilated Broadway theater might continue to require masks. (which could also be included as part of the union agreement with the performers).

But by July, I think a New Yorker will be able to walk into just about any restaurant, gallery, store, museum, just as "normal."

I agree about the new normal but as for Broadway - no matter what the CDC says, Equity and the League are going to be working independently on when to return. I hold fast that it isn't happening by July 1st but that's mostly because of my partner and friends who work on Broadway.