Baby steps? Tell that to the masses. People keep talking herd immunity. I keep talking herd mentality. People are going to jump the gun on any baby steps management has in mind.
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
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Tom P.
Well-Known Member
It makes me and my family more likely to go now. Which group is larger, I don't know.
Well, bully for you.
Tom P.
Well-Known Member
Hey, I'm rooting for everything to open 100% with no restrictions as of yesterday. But I know that's not going to happen, so any movement in that direction is at least positive news.
Kevin_W
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how useless they are - I've worn one twice while exercising and they definitely increase the cardiovascular portion of the workout.
I wonder if you were rooting for that last year on these boards - even without a vaccine. Nevertheless, I’d do the research but I’m not getting paid.
Tom P.
Well-Known Member
No, my view on the subject has evolved over time. It is quite different now than it was a year ago.
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
They increase your work of breathing, that's all they do. What they don't do, though, is measurably lower the oxygen content of the air you inspire, which was the marketed selling point.
So, you think everything safe to reopen right now? This is why I sometimes question my love of Disney Parks (and Dollywood). I just don’t agree with so many of the other guests.
I'm rooting for community spread to be low enough to do all that, like yesterday or today, or even tomorrow.
But, that's not going to happen either.
One of those has to come before the other. The wrong sequence isn't good for anyone.
Right now, the cases, positivity, deaths, long term impacts, hospitalizations, whichever measure we're looking at, says we still have a way to go for low community spread. They're all moving in the right direction, just not there yet. More like from "OMG hair on fire bad" to just "this is not good" for some of them. Let's get to "good".
If your’e vaccinated, why are you still worried so much? You have a significantly less chance of Covid off the bat from the shot, but when you factor in proper mask use and hand washing (which I assume you will do) your chances decrease further. Finally, if you do still get it you will only have a mild disease course. That’s a risk I’m willing to take now (I wasn’t prior to my shot.). At some point you have to get back to living.
As others have pointed out, this doesn't work. None of the guidance advocates vaccinated and unvaccinated mingling in any numbers. There's a single exception to this, when it's vaccinated mingling with a single unvaccinated group.
Once the interactions are large, as in every single public instance where unvaccinated are present and community spread is high, recommendations are mitigation measures for everyone.
If we don't get high enough, this plan isn't going to work for them. It'll work for some small percentage, but if it's such a large number that community spread doesn't come down, there will be no coat tails to ride.
I think you're correct that vaccinated people will not put up with this forever. While I disagree with vaccine passports in general, that's the plan B as you've mentioned and the likely outcome if we don't get enough people vaccinated. It's not going to be two groups living in one world with slightly different appearances though. It's going to be the creation of two distinct worlds that occasionally interact.
Not sure if that's carrot or stick to move from one world to the other. It may really be three or four worlds. For truly public government run items, think city buses, town halls, federal buildings. They'll likely just keep mitigations so they don't deny anyone access. Private run businesses that want to be part of the Vaccinated Bubble that drop all mitigations by enforcing the bubble. Private run businesses that want to be in both worlds and continue mitigations like the government ones. Finally, private run businesses that don't enforce the bubble and don't require any mitigations. There's probably some health codes that come into play for those last two, but perhaps not. It'll be interesting to see how businesses chase customers from the different groups.
I still think (hope) we can get enough vaccinated, and continue mitigations long enough that the combined impact drives spread low enough that all mitigations can then be removed without spread returning. That we can all live in that one scenario.
Flugell
Well-Known Member
I agree at some point, hopefully soon, we ALL have to get back to living! However with people wandering around who haven’t been vaccinated either through choice or medical conditions there is still a degree of risk. If you have an underlying condition, or on some form of immunotherapy drug the risk remains too high. Vaccine cards, passports or similar would reduce the risk for everyone. If people don’t want the vaccine or cards or to have a negative test every two or three days then I believe it is that faction of society that should be ostracised. It is unfair that the ones that have taken the positive steps to reduce spread should be the ones unable to participate fully in the community.
My husband is currently taking immunotherapy drugs for a rare skin condition. These drugs are normally given to people who have had a heart transplant so are very strong, so this probably colours my opinion, however as we have been vaccinated- why should we be the ones still required to look on jealously as the non vaccinated take advantage of others vaccinations?
My husband is currently taking immunotherapy drugs for a rare skin condition. These drugs are normally given to people who have had a heart transplant so are very strong, so this probably colours my opinion, however as we have been vaccinated- why should we be the ones still required to look on jealously as the non vaccinated take advantage of others vaccinations?
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DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
The reason for the vaccinated only mingling with a single unvaccinated group doesn't have anything to do with vaccinated mingling with unvaccinated. It's due to the fact that if your family is vaccinated and then you have a dinner party and invite two unvaccinated groups, the two unvaccinated groups are mingling with each other.
There is no reason for any vaccinated person who is two weeks past the final dose to continue any measures.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
My post was purely about workplaces not enforcing on the general public. It’s very easy to enforce at work. There is no issue with sharing information or the executive order in FL, All employees would have the option to share the info or not. If they don’t share they wear a mask if they do share they get out of it. Simple, easy and very easy to enforce. You know which employees are exempt and if you chose not to wear a mask and aren’t exempt you are fired. It’s not impossible to distinguish between the groups in a controlled work environment, it’s actually quite easy.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
The science is pretty simple. We wear a mask and practice distancing because we are a risk to spread Covid to another person and/or get infected. Once we are vaccinated we pose a very low risk of both being infected or infecting others. That’s a fact, that’s the science. The guidance doesn’t reflect that yet because we haven’t reached the point where enough people are vaccinated or everyone is even eligible. There is no good scientific reason why when 60-70% of the population is vaccinated they all have to continue acting the same as they did before vaccination. That may be the case in public settings because of the difficulty in determining who is vaccinated and who isn’t. But in private settings (which includes the majority of people’s employment situations it’s easy to know who is vaccinated and who isn’t so a factory or an office can and should stop requiring vaccinated people to follow all the same rules as the unvaccinated.
GhostHost1000
Premium Member
I agree but down the line something IS going to have to give somewhere. People just aren’t going to mask or double mask and social distance forever just because some won’t get vaccinated or because there’s a new strain or whatever
it’ll be interesting to see between universal and Disney as well who changes what and when and who follows who.
Might be easy in some workplaces, but not so easy in many.
Not like supervisors always have eyes on every employee.
And Florida still makes it hard to enforce -- I believe the EO prohibits asking about someone's vaccine status (not sure if the EO pertains to employers), and the state is prohibited from providing any documentation that would confirm status. So employees would lack any way to prove they are vaccinated beyond their white CDC card, and if they were to lose the card, the State won't provide any confirmation that they were vaccinated. (so every employee could say they were vaccinated but they lost their card.... and the employer would have no way to confirm it).
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