News Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge - Historical Construction/Impressions

britain

britain

Well-Known Member
Rich T said:
I agree the corporation is doing the smart corporation thing with its shiny new IP. But I think I speak for a lot of the long-time Disney fans here who will never be 100 % okay with such a huge amount of space being taken up by an IP Disney did not create.

Here's the thing, and I'm sticking with the Tolkien comparison: Stranger Things Land goes into Tolkien Land. Both properties in this imaginary parallel are owned by TOLKIEN (a huge media corporation that has grown from the original Tolkien books). Suddenly Tolkien Land is no longer about J.R.R. Tolkien and his creations; now people--especially the younger generations--are increasingly thinking of the name "Tolkien" as representing the corporation and all its acquisitions (lets pretend they also bought "My Little Pony," Chuck E. Cheese, Lego, Betty Crocker and Dark Horse Comics and had future plans to incorporate it all into Tolkien Land...because they can.) And some younger fans of the corporation don't even believe J.R.R. Tolkien was a real person at this point.

It's a unique situation, where a man's name has become more recognized as a corporate hodgepodge. The Walt Disney company is losing its identity and its heritage... and this huge change to DL really irks a lot of us.
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Hate to break it to you, but Jack Warner's or Lionel B. Mayer's legacies are much further ahead when it comes to erosion.

Besides, Walt would be the first person to say this should be about fun creative storytelling, not about him.
 
Phroobar

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Rich T said:
I agree the corporation is doing the smart corporation thing with its shiny new IP. But I think I speak for a lot of the long-time Disney fans here who will never be 100 % okay with such a huge amount of space being taken up by an IP Disney did not create.

Here's the thing, and I'm sticking with the Tolkien comparison: Stranger Things Land goes into Tolkien Land. Both properties in this imaginary parallel are owned by TOLKIEN (a huge media corporation that has grown from the original Tolkien books). Suddenly Tolkien Land is no longer about J.R.R. Tolkien and his creations; now people--especially the younger generations--are increasingly thinking of the name "Tolkien" as representing the corporation and all its acquisitions (lets pretend they also bought "My Little Pony," Chuck E. Cheese, Lego, Betty Crocker and Dark Horse Comics and had future plans to incorporate it all into Tolkien Land...because they can.) And some younger fans of the corporation don't even believe J.R.R. Tolkien was a real person at this point.

It's a unique situation, where a man's name has become more recognized as a corporate hodgepodge. The Walt Disney company is losing its identity and its heritage... and this huge change to DL really irks a lot of us.
Click to expand...

However, Star Wars has been part of Disneyland for half of it's existence. Star Wars was considered a "Disney movie" from the day it was released even though Disney never had anything to do with it. It can be argued that Star Wars and George Lucas actually SAVED Disneyland since Disney couldn't come up with a property it owned that people cared enough about to visit the park. It is Star Tours that brought the crowds back to Disneyland and made it relative to older people. Before that, Disneyland was a place parents took their kids because they had to. No one went there without children. Indiana Jones and Star Wars brought investment back to the park. Galaxy Edge fits perfectly with Frontierland and looks completely stupid at DHS. Star Wars at it's core is nothing but a western in space. But this has all been said many times before.
 
Rich T

Rich T

Well-Known Member
britain said:
Hate to break it to you, but Jack Warner's or Lionel B. Mayer's legacies are much further ahead when it comes to erosion.

Besides, Walt would be the first person to say this should be about fun creative storytelling, not about him.
Click to expand...
Walt Disney's legacy, as you well know, had a far greater impact on pop culture--and had a stronger identity--than the films produced by Jack Warner or Mayer. And Jack Warner didn't even know which characters his cartoon studio was responsible for.

Disney was unique in the history of entertainment. You already know that.

I, and a lot of others, had the good fortune to grow up with an amazing creative figure on TV every week, who presented amazing stories from his studio in a pre-home-video world where quality animation was rare viewing. He created an amazing, inspiring park with the help of many of the same talented people who created his animated films. That park became our best summer memory for many years.

We were all lucky it lasted and kept its identity for as long as it did. Nothing lasts forever.

I agree that Walt might have loved Star Wars. But, again, it would have been nice to see DL remain a place that didn't give over so much acreage to an IP that the WD Studio didn't create.
 
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Hatbox Ghostbuster

Hatbox Ghostbuster

Well-Known Member
Rich T said:
Walt Disney's legacy, as you well know, had a far greater impact on pop culture--and had a stronger identity--than the films Jack Warner or Lionel B. Mayer. And Jack Warner didn't even know which characters his cartoon studio was responsible for.

Disney was unique in the history of entertainment. You already know that.

I, and a lot of others, had the good fortune to grow up with an amazing creative figure on TV every week, who presented amazing stories from his studio in a pre-home-video world where quality animation was rare viewing. He created an amazing, inspiring park with the help of many of the same amazing people who created his animated films. That park became our best summer memory for many years.

We were all lucky it lasted and kept its identity for as long as it did. Nothing lasts forever.

I agree that Walt might have loved Star Wars. But, again, it would have been nice to see DL remain a place that didn't give over so much acreage to an IP that the WD Studio didn't create.
Click to expand...
But but...Star Wars could have been a Disney movie! People have said that!
And now that Star Wars IS a Disney made product people love--wait...people HATE it now!

JadedSandyAmphiuma-size_restricted.gif
 
Rich T

Rich T

Well-Known Member
Phrubruh said:
However, Star Wars has been part of Disneyland for half of it's existence. Star Wars was considered a "Disney movie" from the day it was released even though Disney never had anything to do with it. It can be argued that Star Wars and George Lucas actually SAVED Disneyland since Disney couldn't come up with a property it owned that people cared enough about to visit the park. It is Star Tours that brought the crowds back to Disneyland and made it relative to older people. Before that, Disneyland was a place parents took their kids because they had to. No one went there without children. Indiana Jones and Star Wars brought investment back to the park. Galaxy Edge fits perfectly with Frontierland and looks completely stupid at DHS. Star Wars at it's core is nothing but a western in space. But this has all been said many times before.
Click to expand...
First: "Half its existence". Thanks for making me feel reeeeally old. :D
2nd: "Before that, Disneyland was a place parents took their kids because they had to. No one went there without children." Where did you get that????? That's just completely untrue. Thousands upon thousands of families, went to DL because they loved the park. They went on dates, they went with friends, they had a blast. Space Mtn. had a line going all the way down Main Street when it opened, and it wasn't mostly kids. Kids weren't the ones staying until 1:00 AM every night during the summer. Dude, I was there. My friends were there. And it was mobbed! Always!:D

I agree Star Tours and Indiana helped bring even *more* people in. And SWGE will bring even more. And more. And the overall experience will most likely get more and more unpleasant because of the increasing crowds. Disney really is in danger of killing its Golden Goose.
 
Hatbox Ghostbuster

Hatbox Ghostbuster

Well-Known Member
Phrubruh said:
However, Star Wars has been part of Disneyland for half of it's existence. Star Wars was considered a "Disney movie" from the day it was released even though Disney never had anything to do with it. It can be argued that Star Wars and George Lucas actually SAVED Disneyland since Disney couldn't come up with a property it owned that people cared enough about to visit the park. It is Star Tours that brought the crowds back to Disneyland and made it relative to older people. Before that, Disneyland was a place parents took their kids because they had to. No one went there without children. Indiana Jones and Star Wars brought investment back to the park. Galaxy Edge fits perfectly with Frontierland and looks completely stupid at DHS. Star Wars at it's core is nothing but a western in space. But this has all been said many times before.
Click to expand...
Are we really at the point of hyperbolizing that Disneyland in 2018 exists because of Star Wars???

Right, OK.

giphy.gif
 
righttrack

righttrack

Well-Known Member
Rich T said:
I agree the corporation is doing the smart corporation thing with its shiny new IP. But I think I speak for a lot of the long-time Disney fans here who will never be 100 % okay with such a huge amount of space being taken up by an IP Disney did not create.

Here's the thing, and I'm sticking with the Tolkien comparison: Stranger Things Land goes into Tolkien Land. Both properties in this imaginary parallel are owned by TOLKIEN (a huge media corporation that has grown from the original Tolkien books). Suddenly Tolkien Land is no longer about J.R.R. Tolkien and his creations; now people--especially the younger generations--are increasingly thinking of the name "Tolkien" as representing the corporation and all its acquisitions (lets pretend they also bought "My Little Pony," Chuck E. Cheese, Lego, Betty Crocker and Dark Horse Comics and had future plans to incorporate it all into Tolkien Land...because they can.) And some younger fans of the corporation don't even believe J.R.R. Tolkien was a real person at this point.

It's a unique situation, where a man's name has become more recognized as a corporate hodgepodge. The Walt Disney company is losing its identity and its heritage... and this huge change to DL really irks a lot of us.
Click to expand...

First of all, huge Star Wars lover here. I get it though. I see your point perfectly and thanks for sharing that. I think this was simply the case the WDW missed the Potter boat and they needed to do something quick and big if not bigger to counter it. Potter kind of changed everything. Probably as big of a wakeup call of them actually building Universal itself way back when. It's their "I see your Potterland and raise you Star Wars Galaxy's Edge!"
 
Professortango1

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
Rich T said:
It's simply the placement. It's like.. if there was a Tolkien theme park and the suits in charge had bought the rights to Stranger Things and bulldozed half of Lothlorien to build Stranger Things Land. And then the people start saying, "This is going to be so great! I can't wait to go to Tolkien Land to ride Stranger Things!!!!"

That's what it comes down to. The Stranger Things land might be awesome, but it doesn't belong in Tolkien Land.
(EDIT) Even if the same corporation owns the rights to both.
Click to expand...

But Disneyland has had Star Wars for decades. Its like being upset if Tolkein Theme Park added a land devoted to The Father Christmas Letters in a new part of the park rather than adding it where the Father Christmas shop was earlier.
 
nevol

nevol

Well-Known Member
Rich T said:
I agree the corporation is doing the smart corporation thing with its shiny new IP. But I think I speak for a lot of the long-time Disney fans here who will never be 100 % okay with such a huge amount of space being taken up by an IP Disney did not create.

Here's the thing, and I'm sticking with the Tolkien comparison: Stranger Things Land goes into Tolkien Land. Both properties in this imaginary parallel are owned by TOLKIEN (a huge media corporation that has grown from the original Tolkien books). Suddenly Tolkien Land is no longer about J.R.R. Tolkien and his creations; now people--especially the younger generations--are increasingly thinking of the name "Tolkien" as representing the corporation and all its acquisitions (lets pretend they also bought "My Little Pony," Chuck E. Cheese, Lego, Betty Crocker and Dark Horse Comics and had future plans to incorporate it all into Tolkien Land...because they can.) And some younger fans of the corporation don't even believe J.R.R. Tolkien was a real person at this point.

It's a unique situation, where a man's name has become more recognized as a corporate hodgepodge. The Walt Disney company is losing its identity and its heritage... and this huge change to DL really irks a lot of us.
Click to expand...
Tony Baxter didn't care when he brought in Star Tours and Indiana Jones, and he heard the same criticisms 30 years ago.
If it would help, you should watch the TEA panel with Joe Rohde, Scott Trowbridge, and Thierry Coup (the head of universal creative) talking about IP for an hour. Scott says some things that really inspire confidence with this project. Namely, that while Disney owns Disneyland, it belongs to the public. They can't just do whatever they want to the place. Disney is just the steward of the place. This is coming from the guy in charge of Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge. Does that not give you a moment to take a deep breath? It seems to me like you are really concerned that your concerns were either never thought of by a clueless company, or not taken seriously, and I doubt that the truth really looks that way.

Battle of IPs: Walt Disney Imagineering & Universal Creative designers at IAAPA 2017 Legends Panel
 
nevol

nevol

Well-Known Member
Hatbox Ghostbuster said:
Can we please stop using Star Tours as a justification for SWL? They're not in the same league.

One is a harmless motion-simulator located (appropriately) in Tomorrowland.

The other is a 14-acre land monstrosity that is quite literally, forcing the rest of the park to be re-adjusted just to accomodate it.
Click to expand...
Tomorrowland had nothing to do with star tours. They just share some manifestation themes of outer space.

You're right. Disneyland should not deliver to its audience things they actually want. That way, the park can remain empty and pleasant for those who remain hooked.
 
Hatbox Ghostbuster

Hatbox Ghostbuster

Well-Known Member
nevol said:
Tony Baxter didn't care when he brought in Star Tours and Indiana Jones, and he heard the same criticisms 30 years ago.
If it would help, you should watch the TEA panel with Joe Rohde, Scott Trowbridge, and Thierry Coup (the head of universal creative) talking about IP for an hour. Scott says some things that really inspire confidence with this project. Namely, that while Disney owns Disneyland, it belongs to the public. They can't just do whatever they want to the place. Disney is just the steward of the place. This is coming from the guy in charge of Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge. Does that not give you a moment to take a deep breath? It seems to me like you are really concerned that your concerns were either never thought of by a clueless company, or not taken seriously, and I doubt that the truth really looks that way.

Battle of IPs: Walt Disney Imagineering & Universal Creative designers at IAAPA 2017 Legends Panel
Click to expand...
That's an ironic statement because it seems that that is EXACTLY what they are doing to the place. Who would tell them no?
 
nevol

nevol

Well-Known Member
Hatbox Ghostbuster said:
That's an ironic statement because it seems that that is EXACTLY what they are doing to the place. Who would tell them no?
Click to expand...
Is it possible that the people on the project are very passionate about its outcome? And also passionate about preserving Disneyland? It seems like everyone here unanimously wishes for an inferior imagineering project, where we walk into a queue for a new star wars attraction in the carousel building and out through a gift shop, left to wonder what imagineering is really capable of, if only that ride was in a building as spectacular as mysterious island at disneysea. Sorry, not jumping on that train. Am I happy that everything is IP now? No. But for once they are actually spending money and innovating not only with technology but storytelling. The definition of imagineering. Sorry that this will be the best domestic Imagineering project of our lifetimes without a major upheaval in burbank/glendale.
 
Hatbox Ghostbuster

Hatbox Ghostbuster

Well-Known Member
nevol said:
Tomorrowland had nothing to do with star tours. They just share some manifestation themes of outer space.

You're right. Disneyland should not deliver to its audience things they actually want. That way, the park can remain empty and pleasant for those who remain hooked.
Click to expand...
Tomorrowland has more to do with Star Wars than Fronteirland does.

As for that second statement...lol, u mad bro?
A) Never said anything like that, but thanks for putting words in my mouth.
B) SWL isn't open and Disneyland is FAR from "empty". In fact, its busier now than its ever been.
C) People love to say that SWL is "giving the people what they wanted" as if a mass conglomerate of fans were asking for SWL to be built and management finally gave in. Uh...no. No one was asking for SWL. It's a shrine to Iger's massive ego. That's not to say people don't want SWL, but that's a far cry from it delivering on what people want.
 
Hatbox Ghostbuster

Hatbox Ghostbuster

Well-Known Member
nevol said:
Is it possible that the people on the project are very passionate about its outcome? And also passionate about preserving Disneyland? It seems like everyone here unanimously wishes for an inferior imagineering project, where we walk into a queue for a new star wars attraction in the carousel building and out through a gift shop, left to wonder what imagineering is really capable of, if only that ride was in a building as spectacular as mysterious island at disneysea. Sorry, not jumping on that train. Am I happy that everything is IP now? No. But for once they are actually spending money and innovating not only with technology but storytelling. The definition of imagineering. Sorry that this will be the best domestic Imagineering project of our lifetimes without a major upheaval in burbank/glendale.
Click to expand...
We don't have to wish for an inferior WDI project. Right across the esplanade they handed us tripe like M:BO and Pixar Pier.

I can almost guarantee you one thing...this was a decision largely born out of 2 things.
1) Disney finally getting their hands on SW IP and deciding to go bat-$hit crazy with it
2) Iger's knee-jerk reaction to Potterland.

Disney could likely have licensed a new SW attraction at ANY POINT since opening Star Tours. But they didn't.
 

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