Genie_naughty_whispers
Well-Known Member
Some of you need to get off your high horse. Who cares if he/she starts a new thread. It is incredible the pompousness and pretentiousness that are on these forums.
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Disney slowly losing some of what made it special.
- Thread starter Naplesgolfer
- Start date
OneofThree
Well-Known Member
This isn't difficult.
Anyone who has been going long enough (2014 doesn't qualify, for example), knows exactly what someone is talking about when they suggest that WDW has "lost" something. To conflate that idea with the suggestion that Disney now "isn't worth it" for example, isn't something that lends itself to conversation here. OP is not only entitled to their opinion, but is evidently well within TOS to express it, whether it's be done before a bazillion times or not (it has). That said, I personally would prefer one thread. That way, newly disgruntled Disney people can read what's already been said and decide if they have something different to offer.
Anyone who has been going long enough (2014 doesn't qualify, for example), knows exactly what someone is talking about when they suggest that WDW has "lost" something. To conflate that idea with the suggestion that Disney now "isn't worth it" for example, isn't something that lends itself to conversation here. OP is not only entitled to their opinion, but is evidently well within TOS to express it, whether it's be done before a bazillion times or not (it has). That said, I personally would prefer one thread. That way, newly disgruntled Disney people can read what's already been said and decide if they have something different to offer.
Genie_naughty_whispers
Well-Known Member
Disney used to be the epitome of guest service and satisfaction. Now, it's the poster child for "good enough for the tourists."
Ive been a long time member and a lurker since yesterday and the level of greatness that Disney has lost in the last 24 hours is astounding.
I have a bar graph to illustrate this based on scientific data gathered with overnight samples of "greatness" at all park gate entrances.
righttrack
Well-Known Member
I don't know if Disney changed or if it is just the rest of the world changing. Scale is part of the issue. WDW is so much bigger and gets bigger every year. Add to that a current lack of "off-season" compared to just five years ago. It gave them more time to work on things with less impact.
Matches my data to the decimal point.I have a bar graph to illustrate this based on scientific data gathered with overnight samples of "greatness" at all park gate entrances.
This ^^^^^^
donnylambb
Well-Known Member
We arrive Sunday and we go every year and WE CANT WAIT TO GET THERE! Feel sorry for you and all the other HATERS maybe its not Disney and its you that needs to FIND THE MAGIC!
Willmark
Well-Known Member
Get/got bigger how?
In the last 10-15 years WDW has largely swapped out rides resulting in a net neutral. Or at best they have added 1-2 rides in a land.
As I always say: Disney has been cramming in the cattle but hadn’t expanded the pasture. Now they are surprised that the cows are mooing ever louder?
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OneofThree
Well-Known Member
This has progressed to the point where we are very seriously considering not renewing our AP's. When I'm on vacation, I really don't want to deal with that sort of mayhem.
donnylambb
Well-Known Member
lol I guess it was a little TRUMPY!
LeighM
Well-Known Member
No, it shouldn't bother me at all. If I did, I wouldn't enjoy going anywhere and would just stay in my house complaining about costs everywhere I go. To me, it's a simple concept of supply and demand. Plus, the increased crowds put more strain on their infrastructure - roads, transportation, wear and tear on the parks, the rides, food costs, etc. All of that does increase the costs to Disney. They are a company, just like any other, that wants to maximize profits. It just makes sense that they would pass those costs onto the consumer somehow. They always did. It's just today's economy makes it seem worse. My family couldn't afford to go to Disney in the 80s except the one time they took me when I was 2. I still love going to WDW and it's still my happy place. I can go there for the week and enjoy my time in the Disney Bubble. I live close to two amusement parks - Busch Gardens and Kings Dominion. BG is trying to duplicate Disney in many ways but it just falls flat. Kings Dominion doesn't even try. And I don't have fun there anymore because I don't get enough value for the cost of their tickets. If someone feels that way about Disney then they should do what I did at these 2 parks - stop going. Find somewhere else you enjoy. When compared to these 2 parks, Disney will still always win - because it is still so different than anything else out there. There is no other theme park that I know of where a multi-generational family can have fun on the same rides. Or where a disabled child doesn't feel isolated and can feel included. That to me is enough to make it stand head and shoulders above the competition. But I think that people get what they want out of an experience. If they go to WDW looking for the negatives, they will definitely find them. It's not a utopia and Disney isn't perfect. I just chose to go and experience the positive.
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flynnibus
Premium Member
Did I say anything about costs? No... I didn't.
LeighM
Well-Known Member
But you did share your quoted comment to my previous post which said:
"Sure the ride times are increasing, it's harder to get ADRs and FP times, tickets and rooms cost more. But I see that corporate behavior everywhere so that doesn't bother me."
You responded:
"It should... it's a big part of the problem. Disney stood out because it was so DIFFERENT... not because Disney did the same thing BETTER than other people. What's happened a good bit is the rest of the world has largely caught up and duplicated what Disney innovated... while Disney has been slower to innovate while concurrently making themselves MORE LIKE everyone else. All these things close the gap that used to make Disney so much a different place than anywhere else."
So the post in which you quoted did mention the increasing tickets and room costs. You told me that those things I listed should bother me. I responded back to you, on why those things that I listed shouldn't bother me. You may not have said anything about costs but you responded to my message that did.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Let's revisit the sentance...
"Sure the ride times are increasing, it's harder to get ADRs and FP times, tickets and rooms cost more. But I see that corporate behavior everywhere so that doesn't bother me."
Which actually highlights:
- Customer Frustrations
- Reduced Levels of availability
- More stress engaging with the product
- Increasing costs
- Customer Satisfaction
- Corporate attitude towards customers and their needs/burdens/desires
Costs is not the core of that statement. The kicker is your closer of 'I see that corporate behavior everywhere' -- which is really what I was keying off of. The idea that "well, everyone else is doing it.. so whats the big deal". THAT is the approach and attitude that is the most concerning and dangerous.
As I said, Disney didn't establish itself by simply doing the same thing other people did.. just slightly better for more cost. Disney established itself by DISTANCING itself from what the normal expectations were. Disney was delivering on experiences people didn't even know they wanted until Disney showed them what really was possible.
"The Disney Difference" was never about $$$ nor simply "amping the same thing up". Disney simply "being ahead of the other guy" doing the same thing isn't Disney.
So when everyone says " well, whats the big deal, everyone else already does that too" - That is another piece of Disney falling into the crevasse of dead history... ignoring that Disney could have been doing that same thing all along too... but CHOSE NOT TOO.
As I said in another thread... It's not the $5 that is the issue, it's that you had the nerve to ask for it in the first place. That's the dangerous part.
OneofThree
Well-Known Member
Technically, it's this: The WDW experience, for a long after inception, was a product driven by and modeled after a dream. Eisner came in and was able to mold the dream with the realities of the economic environment. Now, the short term forecasts dominate strategic decision-making. As a rule, the path to meeting or exceeding expectations is to maximize revenue through consumer driven marketing concepts. With WDW, the herds of cattle are the customers, and are evidently more than happy to pay handsomely for that er, privilege. This is quite a contrast with the original model. To be honest, I'm not sure the original model would even be financial viable anymore. That doesn't mean I don't recognize what happens when average cow essentially determines the customer experience should be versus the what the visionary has in mind.
LeighM
Well-Known Member
You don't need to break down my own thoughts for me in my original sentence but thanks for the unneeded clarification. You just assumed that I would know which part of my sentence you were responding to. I purposely focused on the costs in my response because that is what I mostly hear people complaining about in terms of Disney. And costs are a big part of most people's dissatisfaction. I know it is for me but I still go. But to me, the issues with Disney today mostly comes down to costs. From the leadership seemingly more focused on the shareholders financial happiness vs the park goers experience, trying to get every penny they can (resort parking fees, special events, dessert parties), raising ticket prices to try to lower crowd levels, etc. There are more examples. Does it affect the park going experience when you pay a lot of money to go to an overcrowded park, waiting in long lines because they don't have every vehicle running or they don't have the staff to man the ride? Of course it does. Like I said in my previous post, when I go to other parks I still see the "Disney Difference" - it's still there. It's just a different world now than it was in the 80s and 90s.
righttrack
Well-Known Member
Space. They have built more and more. Yes, more DVC mostly but my point is they are spreading people out more thinly than ever.