Why the Monorail Won't be Expanded

[PhotoDave219]

When the road network can no longer cope with the bus system. That day is coming, and it is known about.

That day was a couple of weeks ago. Buses can barely navigate Old Key West as it is.

 

[George]

That day was a couple of weeks ago. Buses can barely navigate Old Key West as it is.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Bob Saget]

The solution to this is simple: Hot air balloons!

Efficient, easily maintained, and sometimes safe.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

When the road network can no longer cope with the bus system. That day is coming, and it is known about.

Can't wait for those accordion busses!!!!

 

[PhotoDave219]

Can't wait for those accordion busses!!!!

Those have been tested multiple times and are not being adopted because of Old Key West as well as the load zones are too freakin small.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Those have been tested multiple times and are not being adopted because of Old Key West as well as the load zones are too freakin small.

Easy fix. Also most articulated buses can go anyplace a regular bus can go. It is, however, more difficult to find drivers for them, not that it's really any harder to drive, but folks are afraid of them and they do cause some confusion if something necessitates backing up.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Easy fix. Also most articulated buses can go anyplace a regular bus can go. It is, however, more difficult to find drivers for them, not that it's really any harder to drive, but folks are afraid of them and they do cause some confusion if something necessitates backing up.

I dont have time to explain to you how wrong you are on that. All I have to say is that Disney's OG says there is no backing up without a manager or security directing it.

 

[G00fyDad]

I dont have time to explain to you how wrong you are on that. All I have to say is that Disney's OG says there is no backing up without a manager or security directing it.

Agreed.

On top of that, driving an articulated bus is nothing like driving a normal one. They do not have the same turning radius.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Agreed.

On top of that, driving an articulated bus is nothing like driving a normal one. They do not have the same turning radius.

OK, I guess that fact that I have driven one doesn't count. Carry on!

 

[PhotoDave219]

OK, I guess that fact that I have driven one doesn't count. Carry on!

Forgive the snarkiness, for once it wasnt intended that harsh. However infastructure issues are coming to a head quickly.

First, Overall infastructure. They're moving 130,000 guests (average 4 park daily attendance based on 2012 TEA Estimates) via boat, bus and monorail. The place just wasnt built for that.

The monorail is falling apart, having failures on a daily basis because the trains are all over 20+ years old. That's a giant problem. People pay top dollar to stay on the monorail loop and are getting inconvenienced like crazy.

Then there's the boats: if you saw how slipshot safety was in that department, you'd never ride a Disney boat again. The last time I rode a Disney boat (Poly->MK) the launch was a foot off the water and I felt like I was on a water taxi in Nassau.

Then there's the buses and the roads. The road system just cant handle the volume anymore. Buses sure dont get you anywhere in a hurry (There should be a nifty chart in the Unofficial Guide that reinforces this) and the system backs up from handicap loads, stacking the buses up on top of one another. Granted, the fleet is modern and cameras are installed but thats little comfort when you've paid a boatload of money to stay at a Disney resort and are stuck dependent on the buses.

IMO.

 

[G00fyDad]

Forgive the snarkiness, for once it wasnt intended that harsh.

I didn't mean to sound mean either. I just meant that I know first hand that the articulated buses do not drive like a standard bus.

Granted, the fleet is modern and cameras are installed but thats little comfort when you've paid a boatload of money to stay at a Disney resort and are stuck dependent on the buses.

This is the very reason I have always been a fervent advocate for renting your own vehicle. We never take a trip without renting a vehicle. But, that adds even more to the roads, clogging them up.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I dont have time to explain to you how wrong you are on that. All I have to say is that Disney's OG says there is no backing up without a manager or security directing it.

That's too bad, because when someone says with that much conviction how wrong I am, I kinda like to know why. Small thing to ask I feel. Disney's OG and everyone else's OG in public transportation say that about a manager directing it. That is wonderful in print, but in reality it is an extremely unworkable response. If a manager or whoever is 20 minutes away explain why a professional driver cannot back their vehicle up 5 ft without a guide. Your passengers get angry, some start to lose it because they feel if you are not skilled enough to simply back up, you must not know what you are doing. People have a real need to get to their destination on time, traffic, accidents, detours they understand. Waiting because your company feels you are incompetent enough to require supervision for a simple task is demoralizing not only for the passengers but for the drivers as well and it is a lawyer inspired directive. Written up by a group of people that not only have never driven a bus, but in all probability have never even been on one.

One of the main reasons for articulated (accordion) buses is because of their maneuverability. They can get around in tight places that a long bus cannot. Otherwise they would just have made a longer bus. The real problem at Disney is the loading and unloading areas are designed for shorter buses. That is why I said it was an easy fix. If there is anything that Disney has it is room to enlarge. As for the roads being to small to handle it. Bull puckey! They take up, in a straight line half again the regular length of a bus. By using the "bendy" bus they can haul more people at one time therefore eliminating the need for another bus to handle the load. That decreases the amount of vehicles on the road, not the other way around.

These buses cost, on average, about a half a million dollars each. Disney would probably get a good break on the cost due to anticipated volume. I feel you will see the articulated bus in Disney before very long, but we all know how slow the wheels of Disney progress turn.

 

[G00fyDad]

That's too bad, because when someone says with that much conviction how wrong I am, I kinda like to know why. Small thing to ask I feel. Disney's OG and everyone else's OG in public transportation say that about a manager directing it. That is wonderful in print, but in reality it is an extremely unworkable response. If a manager or whoever is 20 minutes away explain why a professional driver cannot back their vehicle up 5 ft without a guide. Your passengers get angry, some start to lose it because they feel if you are not skilled enough to simply back up, you must not know what you are doing. People have a real need to get to their destination on time, traffic, accidents, detours they understand. Waiting because your company feels you are incompetent enough to require supervision for a simple task is demoralizing not only for the passengers but for the drivers as well and it is a lawyer inspired directive. Written up by a group of people that not only have never driven a bus, but in all probability have never even been on one.

One of the main reasons for articulated (accordion) buses is because of their maneuverability. They can get around in tight places that a long bus cannot. Otherwise they would just have made a longer bus. The real problem at Disney is the loading and unloading areas are designed for shorter buses. That is why I said it was an easy fix. If there is anything that Disney has it is room to enlarge. As for the roads being to small to handle it. Bull puckey! They take up, in a straight line half again the regular length of a bus. By using the "bendy" bus they can haul more people at one time therefore eliminating the need for another bus to handle the load. That decreases the amount of vehicles on the road, not the other way around.

These buses cost, on average, about a half a million dollars each. Disney would probably get a good break on the cost due to anticipated volume. I feel you will see the articulated bus in Disney before very long, but we all know how slow the wheels of Disney progress turn.

Take an articulated bus around some of these already tight corners that the current standard buses have a hard time with and then let us know how that turns out. You aren't going to get it around those corners. The bus does not move the right way. The rear section does not simply roll to the last point that the rear of the first section was in before turning. Articulated or not, the rear section begins its turn the moment you start turning the bus. It just happens to be attached to the rear of the first section and therefore keeps it's front firmly where the rear of the front half is.

To be slightly less confusing, the rear section does not travel the same path as the front section when turning tight corners. Watch the video. Do you see that rear section follow the same path as the front end? No. The front portion of the rear half does not swing out as far as the front of the bus did, so that section will have a shallower turn radius. That may work for most areas on Disney property, but not all.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Take an articulated bus around some of these already tight corners that the current standard buses have a hard time with and then let us know how that turns out. You aren't going to get it around those corners. The bus does not move the right way. The rear section does not simply roll to the last point that the rear of the first section was in before turning. Articulated or not, the rear section begins its turn the moment you start turning the bus. It just happens to be attached to the rear of the first section and therefore keeps it's front firmly where the rear of the front half is.

To be slightly less confusing, the rear section does not travel the same path as the front section when turning tight corners. Watch the video. Do you see that rear section follow the same path as the front end? No. The front portion of the rear half does not swing out as far as the front of the bus did, so that section will have a shallower turn radius. That may work for most areas on Disney property, but not all.

If you look at it closer you will see a bit of an optical illusion there. Yes the front of the back half will not take the same swing as the front of the bus but it is never any further away then the back part of the front section. If that had been a straight unhinged bus of 40 or more feet long the rear tires would have been in approximately the same location as the rear wheels of the back half were, based on the swing radius taken. In other words, yes there is a little difference but not as big as you might envision. I never said it was "tram" like, but it really is quite capable of getting in any place that a 40 ft. bus can go and in some cases more so. One of the big selling points other than increased capacity is that it can maneuver in tight places.

The front portion of the rear half does not swing out as far as the front of the bus did, so that section will have a shallower turn radius.

Absolutely, which is why the back part is almost never as long as the front part of the bus. Here's another view of them in actual street driving. (about 1 minute in).

http://www.arlnow.com/2012/03/26/video-articulated-buses-on-the-pike/

 

[G00fyDad]

If you look at it closer you will see a bit of an optical illusion there. Yes the front of the back half will not take the same swing as the front of the bus but it is never any further away then the back part of the front section. If that had been a straight unhinged bus of 40 or more feet long the rear tires would have been in approximately the same location as the rear wheels of the back half were, based on the swing radius taken. In other words, yes there is a little difference but not as big as you might envision. I never said it was "tram" like, but it really is quite capable of getting in any place that a 40 ft. bus can go and in some cases more so. One of the big selling points other than increased capacity is that it can maneuver in tight places.



Absolutely, which is why the back part is almost never as long as the front part of the bus. Here's another view of them in actual street driving. (about 1 minute in).

http://www.arlnow.com/2012/03/26/video-articulated-buses-on-the-pike/

Sorry, but I am not going to get into an argument over something like this so I will be dropping the subject from here on out. However, I've driven one, once and I disagree so I will be leaving this thread so this pointless and physically impossible discussion can continue.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Sorry, but I am not going to get into an argument over something like this so I will be dropping the subject from here on out. However, I've driven one, once and I disagree so I will be leaving this thread so this pointless and physically impossible discussion can continue.

You are correct. We will have to agree to disagree on this. I have driven one more than once and found it to be as easy, if not easier to maneuver then the 40 foot straight body buses that I also drove for many years. Just a matter of perspective, I guess. Either way, I feel it won't be long before you see them regularly at Disney.

 

[George]

The hot air balloon suggestion had promise, but it's hard to control the wind. I've long been a proponent of personal jet packs

Easier to maneuver than articulated buses, plus they're perfect with the new ticket media. Imagine, everyone's card is scanned as they swoop into their chosen theme park. Doesn't get more magical than that.

 

[PhotoDave219]

These buses cost, on average, about a half a million dollars each. Disney would probably get a good break on the cost due to anticipated volume. I feel you will see the articulated bus in Disney before very long, but we all know how slow the wheels of Disney progress turn.

It is my understanding that Disney is now leasing buses rather than outright purchasing them.

Its also my understanding that they lease the tires as well.

 

[unkadug]

It is my understanding that Disney is now leasing buses rather than outright purchasing them.

Its also my understanding that they lease the tires as well.

Now that sounds like a losing proposition for Disney.

On one hand, it sounds like a good thing. "Why purchase something that will wear out in a few months?"

On the other hand, any company that leases tires knows this and will be leasing them at exorbitant rates in order to turn a profit.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Now that sounds like a losing proposition for Disney.

On one hand, it sounds like a good thing. "Why purchase something that will wear out in a few months?"

On the other hand, any company that leases tires knows this and will be leasing them at exorbitant rates in order to turn a profit.

Is there such a place? It seems like anyone that would lease an expendable item like that might also lease you a steak for your dinner tonight. I don't claim to know everything, but I am loaded with doubt about that particular thing. Buses, that's possible but unless they have a maintenance agreement, I can't imagine it would be any cheaper then owning them. I suppose it gives one a continuous tax deduction whereas a bus is amortized, but I would think it would very quickly cost more then whatever tax savings might be garnered. It might create a situation where they don't have to have a large cash outflow to buy new ones, but usually they borrow money to do that.

Since they have chosen to not show me their financial spread sheets, I guess I'll never know.