Disney backs out of National Harbor

[brettf22]

I know this probably isn't the correct location, but didn't see any better place ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...rbor/2011/11/25/gIQAM2OKxN_story.html?hpid=z3

 

[Crush Dude!]

No surprise :brick:

 

[MarkTwain]

What a shame.

Can't say I'm all that surprised though; I always kind of wondered how well that property would actually sell. As big a tourist draw as Washington DC is, the site was a pretty good ways out, so it's not like guests would have had a view of the Lincoln Memorial.

 

[ScoutN]

Going through DC is more of a hassle than a pleasure.

 

[c-one]

Not surprising and probably smart. There's no real reason to go to National Harbor, especially considering it's not really close to DC and there's no easy public transit access. That entire development is such a half-baked, mindboggling idea. Only thing that could save it IMO is if they get a proper Metro extension to the site (not buses).

 

[Zummi Gummi]

Washington D.C. is a great city to visit. However, the National Harbor was a terrible idea, and nowhere near the places that a visitor to Washington D.C. would want to tour.

 

[danstadnik]

Does anyone know what they intended to build there? Like an indoor waterpark or something? I can't imagine it would have been "just" a hotel... Us folks in the Northeast keep getting teased by Disney! First, the old World's Fair site in NY was going to be "Disneyland East." Then the Disney's America debacle in Virginia. And now this!!!

 

[RSoxNo1]

Why does Jay Rasulo keep making stuff up?

 

[ChrisFL]

I didn't even know they had plans for it :shrug:

 

[PalisadesPkteer]

OK, did Disney ever really look where the land was that they bought?

Only thing I see off hand is it overlooked the Potomac. Of course with the project not really going forward very well probably had the most to do with it.

If they came to CT it would most likely destroy Lake Compounce chances. So, no think of somewhere else.

 

[RonAnnArbor]

Like others have mentioned, this is an excellent business decision. THat entire project is a disaster. It would have been a HUGE hassle for anyone wanting to tour WDC itself since it is nowhere near.

Now granted, Disney could easily provide its own busses/transportation, like they do on their international trips -- but it's a hassle and inconvenient.

Smart they pulled out now.

 

[TP2000]

Does anyone know what they intended to build there? Like an indoor waterpark or something? I can't imagine it would have been "just" a hotel... Us folks in the Northeast keep getting teased by Disney! First, the old World's Fair site in NY was going to be "Disneyland East." Then the Disney's America debacle in Virginia. And now this!!!

Yesterland has a fantastic article on this stealthy Black Friday announcement from Disney; it summarizes the Friday press release and what Jay Rasulo said would be happening at National Harbor when Disney bought into the complex back in '09.

Stealthy press release, except for the Internets, that is. Obviously this isn't breathless and MAGICAL news we'd see on the Disney Parks Blog. But Yesterland sums it up nicely. Yesterland article and note from Mr. Lutz on the news to be found on the front page of Miceage this morning... http://miceage.micechat.com/

As for the old World's Fair site in Flushing Meadows to become "Disneyland East".... Huh? :veryconfu

I have been an amateur fan of World's Fair history for a couple decades, and I have never read or heard of one snippet of an idea that Walt Disney or his succesors ever once considered turning Flushing Meadows into a Disney theme park property. Certainly the four big shows Disney created for World's Fair pavilions were some of the most popular (although not THE most popular, as that title went to GM's Futurama II and/or the Vatican's pavilion with the Michelangelo art gallery). And Walt knew that all four of those shows would be trucked back to Anaheim in late '65 to take up permanent residency at Disneyland in 1966. And that happened, to great success for Disneyland.

But I have never heard any reference to Disney taking up permanent residency there ever, unless it was just a silly comment from a local politician. Where'd you hear that one, if I may ask?

 

[TP2000]

Like others have mentioned, this is an excellent business decision. THat entire project is a disaster. It would have been a HUGE hassle for anyone wanting to tour WDC itself since it is nowhere near.

Now granted, Disney could easily provide its own busses/transportation, like they do on their international trips -- but it's a hassle and inconvenient.

Smart they pulled out now.

I agree. It seems these non-park DVC developments in major tourist areas are the last vestige of the old 1990's way of thinking for Disney Parks & Resorts. It's that arrogant executive groupthink of "Well, it's Disney, so the tourist rubes will show up regardless of what we build or where we build it".

That's the kind of thinking from Eisner and Pressler, and Rasulo whom Eisner immediately replaced Pressler with in '02, that got Disney into the mess of DCA. And look how much money they've had to spend on DCA in the last decade to fix that type of arrogant mistake!

Bugs Land, 2002 - 50 Million
Tower of Terror, 2004 - 100 Million
Monsters Inc., 2005 - 25 Million
Midway Mania, 2008 - 75 Million
World of Color, 2010 - 80 Million
Extreme Makeover Projects, 2009-12 - 1.2 Billion

Plus various sundry and uplanned entertainment changes and upgrades; Block Party Bash, Electrical Parade, Aladdin stage show, Pixar Play Parade, "placemaking" of '05-'06, etc., etc.

Add that all up and it's well over 1.5 Billion dollars spent just on fixing and plussing DCA in its first decade. And that costly mistake came from arrogance and a general disdain for the customer as simply a piggy bank to shake the last dime out of. It seems to me stuff like this DVC National Harbor project also comes from that same type of executive vision that created DCA.

The point... this is a good sign that the current Disney executives are pulling back from stuff like DVC National Harbor. It also makes you wonder how well, or not well, DVC sales and hotel bookings at Aulani are doing in their first 90 days and with bookings through Christmas. :lookaroun

And you just gotta love that Disney tried to bury this announcement by a stealth release on Black Friday, when they thought no one would notice. :lol:

 

[MarkTwain]

So after reading this article on Yesterland, I'm starting to have some concerns about this announcement.

This quote jumped out to me in particular:

When months and then years passed with no details about Disney’s plans for National Harbor, there was reasonable speculation that Disney was waiting to see how Aulani would do. At Walt Disney World, DVC was one of the big success stories of the often troubled timeshare industry and Disney’s deluxe resorts commanded higher room rates than most comparable lodging elsewhere in the United States. But would the Disney brand still be as “magical” away from the Disney parks?

If Disney’s decision not to move forward with their National Harbor site is an indication of how Aulani is doing, then Aulani is not living up to the expectations that former Walt Disney Parks and Resorts chairman Jay Rasulo and former DVC president Jim Lewis had for their expensive project in the 50th state.

Thomas Staggs is now chairman of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts and Claire Bilby is now the head of Disney Vacation Club. Rasulo is still with Disney in Staggs’ former position as Disney Senior Executive VP and CFO, but Lewis and two other DVC executives were fired from Disney over irregularities in the Aulani resort operations budget and dues. It may very well be that Staggs and Bilby don’t have the same enthusiasm for Disney-branded resorts away from Disney parks as their predecessors. The continuing problems with the U.S. economy (and other nationa’ economies) must also be considered a factor.

So first, I just want to make some general speculations that others may be able to confirm... Disney has, for the most part, gotten into a habit of always having a DVC to sell, right? In other words... when Disney sells out of one resort (which, let's be honest, doesn't really take all that long), they get to work on building the next one. Heck, sometimes they don't even wait for the previous one to sell out. This way, the guys and gals at the DVC booths always have something to pitch to guests, and Disney's DVC income is relatively constant.

So next, let's accept the basic truth that many of us - yes, even DVC members like me - are starting to think WDW is getting into DVC overdrive. As in, to the point that WDW might consider renaming itself Walt Timeshare World 10 years from now overdrive. Disney has by now added DVC units to most of its existing deluxe resorts (Boardwalk, the Grand, Wilderness, Beach Club, AKL, Contemporary, still waiting on Poly and Yacht Club), as well as two stand-alone resorts that are each roughly the size of a decently sized suburb (Key West & Saratoga). However, if you accept my first statement as generally true, then that means this second point has little chance of ending anytime soon.

So with those being the case, I think there was a good chance that Disney was once looking at taking their next DVC plans more off-property, a plan which was to start with Aulani. Makes sense, right? WDW is running out of land to develop, and many of the existing WDW DVC owners may be wanting more options with their points. So start developing DVC around the country/world so you can entice potential buyers to those properties instead.

Unfortunately, it sounds as if Aulani wasn't doing well, and as a result that plan may have been jeopardized... just like what happened after Vero Beach and Hilton Head's slow sales over a decade ago. And as a result, Disney abandoned that National Harbor site... just as they abandoned their other off-property plans after the Vero Beach/Hilton Head failure.

So the conclusion I'm being forced to conclude is that those of us who were hoping for an end to the developmental madness at WDW will only continue to be disappointed. Anyone have any thoughts otherwise?

 

[Cosmic Commando]

^^^ Or maybe Aulani is doing well enough to continue developing standalone DVC resorts, leading them to dig in and do more homework, leading them to see that National Harbor wasn't a good idea after all. Maybe there's another shoe to drop soon about a new land deal. I think everyone agrees that Disney will want to sustain their DVC revenue as long as possible. If we accept that, then it's also true that no matter how big the WDW market is, it is finite and small compared to the entire global timeshare demand.

 

[71jason]

Now granted, Disney could easily provide its own busses/transportation, like they do on their international trips -- but it's a hassle and inconvenient.

I always assumed this was the ultimate goal of National Harbor--remember this was basically the cornerstone of Disney's America, even more than the one-day park they would've built. Not that much of a hassle, they run hundreds of buses at WDW, and it's not like they wouldn't have been paid (either directly or built into the cost of the room).

Under this business model, the distance from DC and the Metro would actually make the location a plus for Disney. Attract tourists with the Disney name, maybe a mini park of some sort, then make your bus tours the easiest way to sight-see.

 

[danstadnik]

But I have never heard any reference to Disney taking up permanent residency there ever, unless it was just a silly comment from a local politician. Where'd you hear that one, if I may ask?

I have to be honest - this is one of those things where I don't remember WHERE I first heard it, or when... And it may have been just from a forum post or something else. So if I spoke out of turn, please, forgive me! However, here is a quote that is somewhat related from another website...
"Robert Moses, the president of the New York World's Fair, asked Walt Disney to takeover the fairgrounds after 1965 and turn it into some sort of East coast Disneyland. Walt passed on the idea of a park in New York, but he did take these World's Fair attractions to his Anaheim, California park."
This is from a larger article that you can read here: http://thisdayindisneyhistory.homestead.com/WorldsFair.html

 

[c-one]

I'm intrigued by the implications that this announcement is somehow indicative of how Aulani is doing, but until I see otherwise I'm not convinced of the connection. I would HOPE that Disney pulled the plug because they realized that this is a bad idea. Seems pretty unanimous among those who know what's up, this topic included, that this project was massively flawed regardless of how other DVC properties are doing.

I always assumed this was the ultimate goal of National Harbor--remember this was basically the cornerstone of Disney's America, even more than the one-day park they would've built. Not that much of a hassle, they run hundreds of buses at WDW, and it's not like they wouldn't have been paid (either directly or built into the cost of the room).

Under this business model, the distance from DC and the Metro would actually make the location a plus for Disney. Attract tourists with the Disney name, maybe a mini park of some sort, then make your bus tours the easiest way to sight-see.

I'm really, really not convinced that this would ever work. There's simply TOO much to do and see in DC that Disney would have a lot of work to do to catch up. People who want the uber-controlled Disney experience won't want to go to DC for that experience.

 

[TP2000]

I have to be honest - this is one of those things where I don't remember WHERE I first heard it, or when... And it may have been just from a forum post or something else. So if I spoke out of turn, please, forgive me! However, here is a quote that is somewhat related from another website...
"Robert Moses, the president of the New York World's Fair, asked Walt Disney to takeover the fairgrounds after 1965 and turn it into some sort of East coast Disneyland. Walt passed on the idea of a park in New York, but he did take these World's Fair attractions to his Anaheim, California park."
This is from a larger article that you can read here: http://thisdayindisneyhistory.homestead.com/WorldsFair.html

Yeah, I'd heard of that plea from Robert Moses before. And I'm sure there are some locals in Queens who still claim Disney wants the Flushing Meadows site, just like the real estate agents in Texas who claim every few years that Disney is buying up property near Houston, or Fort Worth, or Austin, or... :lol:

Walt wisely and quickly passed on the Flushing Meadows idea, and thanked Mr. Moses for his compliment while the WDI guys packed up every last item from the four Disney-designed pavilions and pointed the trucks west towards Anaheim. Walt never looked back at New York, and in fact in 1966 he publicly pooh-poohed the idea of World's Fairs as passe and told the Los Angeles politicians and boosters that were contemplating a World's Fair in LA for 1968-69 that they were 10 years too late to the party and that public tastes were changing.

Interesting thoughts from Walt, while he was focusing on his living laboratory of World's Fair ideas with his EPCOT city. A shame that never got built, and Walt's original plans for his Florida property were nowhere near what he had wanted before he died in 1966.

 

[TP2000]

I'm intrigued by the implications that this announcement is somehow indicative of how Aulani is doing, but until I see otherwise I'm not convinced of the connection. I would HOPE that Disney pulled the plug because they realized that this is a bad idea. Seems pretty unanimous among those who know what's up, this topic included, that this project was massively flawed regardless of how other DVC properties are doing.

True, the National Harbor idea had plenty of flaws. But the similarities between it and Aulani are there; a Disney DVC property in a recently created master-plan tourist community (Ko-Olina) a good 10+ miles away from the established tourist area (Waikiki).

The quiet plug being pulled on National Harbor may be entirely unrelated to Aualani's current status. But something tells me that if Aulani had gone over big right out of the gate, with healthy DVC sales and solid hotel bookings through the busy Christmas and winter peak seasons on Oahu, they wouldn't have been so quick to pull the plug on National Harbor.

If Aulani was a huge success with solid financials, you would think they could have at least sat on the National Harbor property they bought in '09 for at least another six months. Hmm... :lookaroun