Why Horizons?

JustInTime

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I know this has been talked about a million times, but why out of all the buildings and rides to tear down in Epcot did they take out Horizons? The ride itself was amazing (the building was horrendous). Now, I love both M:S and Horizons but I just don't get TDO's sentiment here. Horizons was by far superior to the Wonder's of Life Pavilion and Universe of Energy. Mission Space could have fit well into either space. Was there a valid reason for getting rid of the classic Horizons? Re-watching the ride videos, it seems as relevant as ever (just a few outdated touches). It just seems like a Quirky, Meet the Robinson's style future. So then, why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbuA4m4QZQY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rsx3IlIlYY&feature=related
 

rcapolete

Active Member
Someone can correct me if i am wrong but i remember reading on this board that there was a problem with the buildings foundation. Something along the lines of a big sink hole under part of the structure that required the building to be demolished at least that what i remember reading here somewhere
 

MissM

Well-Known Member
Someone can correct me if i am wrong but i remember reading on this board that there was a problem with the buildings foundation. Something along the lines of a big sink hole under part of the structure that required the building to be demolished at least that what i remember reading here somewhere
No, that's just one of those internet myths.

Horizons lost it's sponsor in 1993. Disney kept it open another year without a sponsor. Then, intermittently open between 1994-1999 when it was torn down. Disney tore it down to get a new ride built with a new sponsor. Bad decision? Possibly. But, despite the fact people still love and miss the ride, it wasn't the hot new thing bringing in the crowds like it used to. There was little reason financially and logicistally for Disney not to take the offer for a new ride and sponsor though.
 

wolf359

Well-Known Member
You're right, it has been talked about a million times, but strangely enough the answer really never changes.

It wasn't like they were sitting around saying "we've got to rip something out, let's play rock, paper, scissors..." and Horizons just happened to lose.

Horizons lost its original sponsor, and the new one wanted something completely new and was willing to pay for it. The Horizons building was demolished because Mission: Space wouldn't fit into it, not because of a sinkhole.

At the time Wonders of Life still has a sponsor and the only real thrill ride in the park, so using that area wouldn't have been considered, and Universe of Energy still had a sponsor and had just been updated in 1996, so again, it wouldn't have been considered.

It's easy to look back at what happened and second guess their decisions based on what we know over a decade after the fact, but at the time what they did made the most sense.
 

wolf359

Well-Known Member
I can understand the sponsorship thing, but it is still sad. It was a great ride.

Oh, no doubt. I love Horizons too and wish it didn't have to go in order to make way for Mission: Space. If only Disney could have known about the oncoming decline of Wonders of Life and perhaps considered bulldozing it to make room for M:S instead...
 

zooey

Well-Known Member
I can't say for myself, but wasn't Horizons extremely unpopular by the end of its run? I've heard or read that the ride never had much of a crowd near the end. Maybe it was maintenance, or maybe it was lack of continued refurbishment, but the audience spoke on the matter either way. That being said, Mission: Space isn't terribly popular either.
Horizons seems to be the definition of "You don't know what you've got until it's gone."
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
I can't say for myself, but wasn't Horizons extremely unpopular by the end of its run? I've heard or read that the ride never had much of a crowd near the end. Maybe it was maintenance, or maybe it was lack of continued refurbishment, but the audience spoke on the matter either way. That being said, Mission: Space isn't terribly popular either.
Horizons seems to be the definition of "You don't know what you've got until it's gone."

It was hardly ever open once the sponsor split. It didn't even get a proper refurb :cry:
 

wolf359

Well-Known Member
I can't say for myself, but wasn't Horizons extremely unpopular by the end of its run? I've heard or read that the ride never had much of a crowd near the end. Maybe it was maintenance, or maybe it was lack of continued refurbishment, but the audience spoke on the matter either way. That being said, Mission: Space isn't terribly popular either.
Horizons seems to be the definition of "You don't know what you've got until it's gone."

It was a walk-on every time I rode it in 1996, but being an omnimover-type ride that isn't much of an indicator of popularity.

However, at the time it was one dark ride in a park with nothing but dark rides. EPCOT needed thrill rides and when faced with the specific situation they had I can't fault them for the decision they chose. I can regret it, though, and I still wish there had been a way Horizons could have been kept.
 

JimboJones123

Well-Known Member
No, that's just one of those internet myths.

Horizons lost it's sponsor in 1993. Disney kept it open another year without a sponsor. Then, intermittently open between 1994-1999 when it was torn down. Disney tore it down to get a new ride built with a new sponsor. Bad decision? Possibly. But, despite the fact people still love and miss the ride, it wasn't the hot new thing bringing in the crowds like it used to. There was little reason financially and logicistally for Disney not to take the offer for a new ride and sponsor though.

When the ride in Norway had a 90 minute wait, Body Wars a 75 minute wait, and The Land a 60 minute wait, Horizons was still a walk on. It was that way for years.
 

JustInTime

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Towards the end of it's life it became somewhat of a seasonal attraction. It's just a shame though. It looked magical.
 

Krack

Active Member
When the ride in Norway had a 90 minute wait, Body Wars a 75 minute wait, and The Land a 60 minute wait, Horizons was still a walk on. It was that way for years.

Wait ... you mean that during the time that Body Wars and Maelstrom was on every inch of WDW advertising (including the cover of the park maps given out to each guest as they passed through the turnstyles) they had longer waits than Horizons? I can't believe it.

You know what else they had longer waits than? Every other ride in the park. The truth is (and always has been regarding Future World) that the Omnimover attractions (Spaceship Earth, Journey Into Imagination, World of Motion and Horizons) all had almost identical line lengths when they were all in operation simultaneously. At noon in the Summer of 1984, it took you two hours to get on any of them. On a random Tuesday morning in October? You could walk on any of them (that's why they call them "people eaters"). The line lengths were almost always static in their relation to each other.

The notion that somehow Horizons and WoM had significantly less lines than SSE and Imagination (or Listen to the Land, or UoE, or the Sea Cabs), at any point in their runs, is a canard.

Disney shuttered them because they were too cheap to maintain their own parks. No sponsor = closed attraction. No sponsor = no refurb. When they got the sponsor (old or new) to pony up money ... they were more than happy to do whatever the sponsor wanted to their park's detriment. Although I can't prove it, I know in my heart that some in WDI were more than happy to tear something down just to have the opportunity to build their design. Purely selfish in a Jeff Goldblum style "you were so busy asking if you could do something that you never thought to ask if you should" style. On one hand I understand - the 70s+80s WDI got hundreds of millions to spend, while the 90s and 00s WDI got told "nice design, but we have no money." They'd rip down Pirates and Space Mountain if they thought they'd get a chance to build something they created (*cough* Mr Toad *cough*).

But regardless, management had sponsors saying they wanted something new. They had WDI saying they'd make something better. And they had a park that was the #3 theme park in the world, but wasn't getting the ticket sales of their park a mile down the road. So something needed to be the scapegoat and Horizons and WoM took the blame.

Management at this time was arguably the worst of any time in the company's history and it shows; not just in Future World but all over WDW and DLR. But that doesn't make perpetuating a myth (that somehow Horizons and WoM were underperforming in comparison to the other attractions) somehow valuable to the current conversation.

EDIT: There was never a time when Listen to the Land was having longer waits than Horizons/WoM over the course of an entire day. Everyone knows in the mornings the Land, Living Seas, and Imagination had longer waits than Energy, Horizons, and WoM ... but that's just because everyone's natural instinct is to walk to their right whenever they reach a fork in the road. It's the same reason why you always pick the left line at WDW (it's going to be shorter). But the reverse was always true in the afternoon, the three east-side attractions would see more traffic as people exited WS, while the west-side pavilions would seem barren. Over the course of a day, it would even out.

At one point in my life, I have waited over an hour and a half for every original attraction in Future World. And, in the same breath, I've walked on (at noon) every one of those same attractions, at some point, also. I spent a ridiculous amount of time in Future World in my youth - the lines were almost always the same across the entire "land" (FW, not the singular pavilion).
 

Scuttle

Well-Known Member
No, that's just one of those internet myths.

Horizons lost it's sponsor in 1993. Disney kept it open another year without a sponsor. Then, intermittently open between 1994-1999 when it was torn down. Disney tore it down to get a new ride built with a new sponsor. Bad decision? Possibly. But, despite the fact people still love and miss the ride, it wasn't the hot new thing bringing in the crowds like it used to. There was little reason financially and logicistally for Disney not to take the offer for a new ride and sponsor though.

Yes this theory has been debunked many times and sadly this is true. Top 3 worst decisions WDW has made. In fact two of the top worst decisions have been made at Epcot with the other being Figment. I'll also add that Disney knew they were screwed on the future theming of everything and this also played into the decision. I mean come on, cheap as* Eisner even greenlit the tomorrowland refurb to try and save and solve the problem with future theming at WDW. To me Horizons was more than a ride it represented everything about future world and overall optimistic views of Epcot. I feel that when Horizons went down for good the soul had been ripped out of Epcot.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
When the ride in Norway had a 90 minute wait, Body Wars a 75 minute wait, and The Land a 60 minute wait, Horizons was still a walk on. It was that way for years.
Hourly capacity:


Maelstrom: 1900
Body Wars: 1000
Living with the Land: 1200
Horizons: 2700 :eek:


Apart from being the fairest of them all, Horizons greatness also lay in its phenomenal hourly capacity.

The fact that Horizons was a walk-on much of the time is not a sign of its weakness, but of its strength! What a champion, what a ride! :sohappy:
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Not again....

NO SINK HOLE. NO STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS.

It was Eisner and his tight fisted-ness.

Horizons was due a huge update, comparable to Spaceship Earth in 2007.

GE pulled sponsorship so this went bye bye since The Mouse wouldn`t pay.

Variations of turning the pavilion into a Space pavilion were looked at, again no one would pay.

Compaq offered to sponsor a Space Pavilion, Disney said okay but only if you pay for a new, smaller warehouse building that is cheaper to maintain.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Sinkhole - the myth relies on these assumptions:

When Disney was investing a billion dollars in EPCOT (staking its entire existence) in the early 1980s apparantly no engineers were asked to check the suitability of the site.
Yet when Disney fifteen years later had to do a relatively small refurb, an army of engineers was deployed to check the foundations.

Next, on top of or at least directly on the edge of this dangerous sinkhole was then build a $100 million, highly demanding, complicated attraction.


:shrug:
 

draybook

Well-Known Member
Call me crazy but sinkholes can happen suddenly, yes?

I was curious about this myself. I haven't really seen any evidence either way but I think it would make an interesting read.
 

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