Upcoming Announcement?

[mickEblu]

I’m 100% certain Zootopia is coming to DLR, just not replacing Avatar in the backlot. So all this steam is likely coming from a different direction than people think it is.

Why would they announce Zootopia coming to DLR as part of DL Forward NOW? Considering that would likely be at least 10 years away? You have WDW Magic who alluded to news of a big change possibly being announced for DLR soon. You have Marni who has now hinted at Zootopia going in the backlot. And you have me the Resident Shaman/ tea leaf reader who’s been saying this might be happening for weeks. What else do you need?

 

[Disney Irish]

Why would they announce Zootopia coming to DLR as part of DL Forward NOW? Considering that would likely be at least 10 years away?

I'm not saying its being announced now. How many times have we heard rumors years in advance of them being announced.

You have WDW Magic who alluded to news of a big change possibly being announced for DLR soon. You have Marni who has now hinted at Zootopia going in the backlot. And you have me the Resident Shaman/ tea leaf reader who’s been saying this might be happening for weeks. What else do you need?

That is the smoke I'm talking about coming from a different direction than people are thinking....

 

[Gusey]

The only 2 thing that seems to contradict it a bit for me are:
1) It's hinted to be a clone of Shanghai, and Disney today seems to be moving away from the clone model of their parks. The last 2 clones being Frozen at DAW (announced 2018) and Tiana's (announced 2020) which is at least a 6 years ago thought process. Any other "clones" have just been updates to Soarin and Millennium Falcon
2) This seems to have been a quick jump from Zootopia is Shanghai's most popular attraction (also still its newest) to they're building it instead of Avatar at DCA. The last time I saw a rumor jump so quick was the supposed Lion King ride going to Animal Kingdom (which went from DLP is going to get Lion King -> it'd be nice if it was at AK too -> it's definitely coming to AK -> it was never announced to come to AK).

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but it's just not adding up yet for me

 

[lentesta]

I agree nothing is for sure. But I think it’s a little more than speculation.

I'm guessing there'd have to be some sort of make-good with James Cameron if this happened.

The idea for Shanghai's second gate is a World Showcase-like collection of Disney IP representing different parts of the world. That's the "Project Atlas" thing I was asking about earlier. As an example, Remy's Ratatouille Adventure for France, Encanto for Tropical Americas, and so on. They could move this Pandora idea to Shanghai as the make-good. Fire and Ash did pretty well in China's domestic market, so the franchise still seems popular there. Cameron gets his licensing, Disney maintains a good working relationship.

 

[Moth]

Replacing what would've been an awesome E-ticket for Pandora for a clone of Shanghai Zootopia is one of the saddest, most pathetic thing I've seen in a theme park, only saved by the existence of USH.

 

[Gusey]

I'm guessing there'd have to be some sort of make-good with James Cameron if this happened.

The idea for Shanghai's second gate is a World Showcase-like collection of Disney IP representing different parts of the world. That's the "Project Atlas" thing I was asking about earlier. As an example, Remy's Ratatouille Adventure for France, Encanto for Tropical Americas, and so on. They could move this Pandora idea to Shanghai as the make-good. Fire and Ash did pretty well in China's domestic market, so the franchise still seems popular there. Cameron gets his licensing, Disney maintains a good working relationship.

But would Pandora fit into the IP World Showcase theme of the 2nd gate if the plan is to use IPs to represent the real world or would it have to go in the castle park as Pandora is an alien moon?

Also, if Pandora was going to Disney Adventure World (pure speculation based on one of the arms in Cascade of Lights infrastructure being labelled Navi) and is now rumored to be replaced by Moana before anythingn is officially confirmed, I feel like keeping the already announced Avatar Land at Disneyland Resort would keep James Cameron happy??

 

[BrianLo]

I continue to acknowledge the possibility for something, but note the lack of our insiders taking any ownership over it. Which is odd. As in the only one of our insiders who did not seem to be speculating alongside us was the comment from Steve.

If there is something here, I think we aren’t fully grasping a key context clue. Kind of like hearing about Cars for the Beyond Big Thunder project and we were all picturing a half baked Radiator Springs until it was announced.

The one thing I reject is Box office and the projects potential popularity. Frankly they are equivalent. Pandora is the highest rated land in WDW, Zootopia in Shanghai. Domestic box offices were similar on their most recent films. France had another very high share of Avatar, China Zootopia. None of this serves as a rational to shuffle the projects around in the way being speculated. The pressure should be for them to add both these properties across their entire portfolio.

The ONE very overt factor here is Josh D’Amaro. I never got the impression Avatar was his project and it was clearly Iger’s baby. So if something changed in the calculus from where it very much looked like they had three more Avatar projects behind the curtain (DCA, DAW, Shanghai), he could have been behind the curtain. It’s also possible all three were sister projects and the decision was made to only do one as per their current strategic direction. Though again “cloning” Zootopia would conflict.

 

[SplashJacket]

Zootopia in Avatar plot, Avatar in third gate?

 

[Disney Irish]

Shull seems to think this idea will happen:



I was told today that one sign of a D23 announcement might be an updated set of permits for this area. Still all speculation, of course.

BTW, Shull updated his post shortly after by adding this, so he is just speculating like everyone else, ie there doesn't appear to be much fire there at this point -



If I was to speculate even further, there is probably a contingent inside WDI that is pushing for Zootopia to replace Avatar and that is where a lot of this "smoke" is coming from.

 

[DrStarlander]

I wonder if WDAS feels their IPs (from the last, say, two decades) are getting featured at DLR as much as deserved relative to Pixar (which has its own land, hotel)? I can imagine that could seem frustrating, especially as DLR is in WDAS's backyard and near Hollywood/industry. I'm only curious if those dynamics happen behind the scenes and have any influence.

 

[coffeefan]

I'm guessing there'd have to be some sort of make-good with James Cameron if this happened.

The idea for Shanghai's second gate is a World Showcase-like collection of Disney IP representing different parts of the world. That's the "Project Atlas" thing I was asking about earlier. As an example, Remy's Ratatouille Adventure for France, Encanto for Tropical Americas, and so on. They could move this Pandora idea to Shanghai as the make-good. Fire and Ash did pretty well in China's domestic market, so the franchise still seems popular there. Cameron gets his licensing, Disney maintains a good working relationship.

I predict Shanghai and Paris will eventually get Avatar. However, since Shanghai already features the modern Pirates ride system, would they use that same system for an Avatar attraction there? I imagine JC and SDL would want a completely new experience if it’s meant to be the headliner for Project Atlas.

 

[TomorrowlandWall]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a second generation of Flight of Passage that is replicatable between Shanghai and Paris. I remember James Cameron talking about a version where guests would experience the seas of Pandora and ride an Ilu instead of a Banshee. That version of an Avatar land could include the original larger version of Navi River Journey. Anything to be slightly different from what exists at DAK or what may or may not exist at DCA.

 

[BrianLo]

I wonder if WDAS feels their IPs (from the last, say, two decades) are getting featured at DLR as much as deserved relative to Pixar (which has its own land, hotel)? I can imagine that could seem frustrating, especially as DLR is in WDAS's backyard and near Hollywood/industry. I'm only curious if those dynamics happen behind the scenes and have any influence.

Interesting note. I never noticed as I blend their global products and movies together. They did do San Fransokyo. But it is notable Disneyland somehow bypassed Frozen since the show is gone. I guess that takes us back to Mermaid if we disclude Mickey.

Technically the DVC tower is WDAS. Also one way or another a Pixar property is being evicted to open up the backlot.

 

[DrStarlander]

Interesting note. I never noticed as I blend their global products and movies together. They did do San Fransokyo. But it is notable Disneyland somehow bypassed Frozen since the show is gone. I guess that takes us back to Mermaid if we disclude Mickey.

Technically the DVC tower is WDAS. Also one way or another a Pixar property is being evicted to open up the backlot.

I'm no studio historian but I think Princess in the Frog (recently added) would be next oldest before Big Hero 6, then Mermaid prior. But boy have there been some top tier IPs from WDAS in the meantime not featured: Tangled, Wreck-It Ralph, Frozen, Zootopia, Moana, Encanto. Good stuff.

Yeah, I don't know if the different studios have that sense of -- not competition -- but just a feeling of identity and desire to be recognized for their success and impact on pop culture. I can imagine them kind of elbowing the Parks/WDI folks in the ribs (in a friendly way) and saying "hey, what about us?"

 

[BrianLo]

I'm no studio historian but I think Princess in the Frog (recently added)

Whoops, forgot about that.

 

[Pizza Moon]

I'm guessing there'd have to be some sort of make-good with James Cameron if this happened.

The idea for Shanghai's second gate is a World Showcase-like collection of Disney IP representing different parts of the world. That's the "Project Atlas" thing I was asking about earlier. As an example, Remy's Ratatouille Adventure for France, Encanto for Tropical Americas, and so on. They could move this Pandora idea to Shanghai as the make-good. Fire and Ash did pretty well in China's domestic market, so the franchise still seems popular there. Cameron gets his licensing, Disney maintains a good working relationship.

They absolutely need a third Pandora ride in Orlando (or just another single E-ticket expansion), if they want to prevent a post-Pandora slump again. 3-5 years after TA would be extremely reasonable, particularly because the park will need actual new capacity. If they do that instead of a Lion King flume and a land in California, I’d be fine with that.

Either the Shanghai boat ride concept or an indoor coaster. Either is what the park needs too.

DCA getting a trackless ride isn’t a horrible idea, but man is Zootopia Land a downgrade from Pandora in general, even if it makes more sense integrating with Hollywoodland.

If they do do this, I’d hope Avatar makes its way as a land at DL to the right of Galaxy’s Edge in the backstage space.

In any case, whether it’s through Avatar, Pirates of the Caribbean, Maleficent, Indiana Jones, even Finding Nemo, I just want Battle for the Sunken Treasure’s tech and scale to come over.

If we never get to an Avatar boat ride done right, man that’d be a shame.

The second gate at Shanghai looks like it’ll be Epic Universe good, so it’s very exciting and I’m sure Avatar will end up at Shanghai somewhere, likely same for DLP, but I see no reason why both Avatar as an IP and a Shanghai Pirates boat ride shouldn’t be planned.

They have so much capex planned for after what they’ve currently announced (and I’m even including the longer term Villains Land and Hollywoodland expansions), that I’m not worried big picture, but here’s to hoping.

 

[coffeefan]

I see many parallels between Zootopia Land and Super Nintendo World; people will love the characters and cute merch because they love the movies, but the attractions and land will be underwhelming.
So Josh has a decision for DCA: add a land of similar quality to SNW at Hollywood or something closer to the quality of a Dark Universe.

 

[DrStarlander]

I just wonder if there's an IP that has the spectacular, lush, natural placemaking potential similar to Pandora; also the opportunity for an incredibly exciting action-packed boat ride (arguably even more suited to a boat ride); perhaps has broader demographic appeal (kids and adults) and just overall positivity -- few people don't like it; with characters, including meet-and-greet potential, that could be popular for decades; fully owned by Disney; from WDAS; great food/bev/merch potential, and music...?

 

[TomorrowlandWall]

If Moana is going anywhere there are strong signs for Paris & Magic Kingdom. As for the Disneyland Resort, I would love for them to use it in a 3rd gate or an Adventure themed collection of mini land like Fantasy Springs.

 

[BrianLo]

I see many parallels between Zootopia Land and Super Nintendo World; people will love the characters and cute merch because they love the movies, but the attractions and land will be underwhelming.
So Josh has a decision for DCA: add a land of similar quality to SNW at Hollywood or something closer to the quality of a Dark Universe.

I would not run the analogy that way Myself.

Dark Universe has a top tier ride, the land isn’t the best. Super Nintendo Land is a great, albeit geographically restricted land (due to Osaka cloning). The rides are mediocre.

Hot Pursuit is better than Super Nintendo World’s rides, though it’s also not Monsters Unchained. In principle the land itself is neither better or worse than Dark Universe, but also shares that sensibility of being rather small, but at least it’s more consistent.

Another issue is that they are looking at GSAT and finding Hot Pursuit is stronger than SDL Pirates. Granted, *I* would make the argument the strength of the IP to that audience is swaying that. But it’s not a bad or mediocre ride.