• The new WDWMAGIC iOS app is here!
    Stay up to date with the latest Disney news, photos, and discussions right from your iPhone. The app is free to download and gives you quick access to news articles, forums, photo galleries, park hours, weather and Lightning Lane pricing. Learn More
  • Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.

3D-printed prop canoe arriving soon at Jungle Cruise

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
More or less, yes if you're just taking someone else's design.

If you're designing your own in CAD or general 3D design software, that's a talent and skill of it's own but to get a sense of what people design and give away for others to use (usually for non-commercial use, only*) for completely free, check out Makerworld:


About $250 will get you the entry level to fairly hassle-free printing at small sizes.

Funny you mention the cease and desist. One person who made fan art of a park design and posted it for non-commercial use had his design ripped off by Disney to be used as a product they actually sold as a souvenir themselves:


*But yeah, Etsy is a cesspool of copyright infringement by opportunists who expect to never get caught, in general. Most are not only selling likenesses in volume (or trying to) they don't have the rights to but are also using 3D models of those likenesses not licensed for commercial use that they didn't design, either.
I've been wanting a 3D printer for years. I'm planning on remodeling the garage with a new workbench, painted floor and organize my tools. Do you have an recommendations on a resin 3D printer? I just want a good quality machine for a beginner.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
This brings up an interesting thought though. Would it get a pass because it’s surrounded by other props and features with authentic and/ or great craftsmanship. Or would it getting a pass because of its own inherent quality and how far it is from the viewer? In other words, would it be getting a pass because we’re grading on a curve with it being helped by all of the great stuff in its vicinity that came before it? What happens when the old stuff of great quality/ craftsmanship gets outnumbered by the newer stuff of lesser quality? Is it still Disneyland? Will future generations look at the place the same way? Will it happen so slowly that it will all feel natural and go unnoticed?

From the beginning.. the park was created by people using movie prop techniques.. aka USING FAKE STUFF TO MAKE YOU THINK IT'S REAL. Yes, Walt had a fixation with authenticity with some elements and going to extremes to build the belief around things.. but for the most part everything is rooted in movie magic and techniques.

This isn't really much different from Disney using concrete coated forms instead of real materials.. or using coated foam instead of solid materials.. or stamps instead of painting, etc. 3D printing is just another tool used to take ideas to physical form.. that can either be used to make other products (like serving as the mold itself), prototype, or in instances be the product itself and further finished.

We shouldn't be talking about 'authentic or not' when the place is full of painted stucco rocks. People can complain about 'hand crafted' vs digitally designed.. but the output is what matters. Disney has been using computer driven shaping of rock and structure since Carsland.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
From the beginning.. the park was created by people using movie prop techniques.. aka USING FAKE STUFF TO MAKE YOU THINK IT'S REAL. Yes, Walt had a fixation with authenticity with some elements and going to extremes to build the belief around things.. but for the most part everything is rooted in movie magic and techniques.

This isn't really much different from Disney using concrete coated forms instead of real materials.. or using coated foam instead of solid materials.. or stamps instead of painting, etc. 3D printing is just another tool used to take ideas to physical form.. that can either be used to make other products (like serving as the mold itself), prototype, or in instances be the product itself and further finished.

We shouldn't be talking about 'authentic or not' when the place is full of painted stucco rocks. People can complain about 'hand crafted' vs digitally designed.. but the output is what matters. Disney has been using computer driven shaping of rock and structure since Carsland.

I guess it’s not fair to compare to the era when one visionary and his fixation/ attention to detail were in control. Obviously not everything is authentic as the wrought iron in NOS is or once was. But I was referring more to quality craftsmanship and if something feels authentic.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Objects intended to be viewed from further away being designed differently is a very old design strategy. A generic category of manufacturing process is not inherently a definition of quality.

I suspect many people here have never made a real effort to focus heavily on the background elements of scenes in attractions like Pirates of the Caribbean and Spaceship Earth at WDW.

... and why would they? We're not supposed to. The scenes are intentionally designed to draw our focus to the parts that have the rich detail. Unlike a movie, though, where they can use the focus on a camera lens to make these things impossible to see, you actually can direct your full attention to those background elements in these rides if you really want to.

For those people who don't believe this is something they've always done, I'd suggest the next time you visit to focus on where the lighting isn't brightest and the things that aren't closest or moving the next time you ride any of the classics but only if you want the illusion destroyed for you.

The older generation seemed to either know how to stage and light scenes better to make these things harder to notice or they just cared more about making it harder to notice - that's certainly an area where the newer generation seems to come up short.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
I've been wanting a 3D printer for years. I'm planning on remodeling the garage with a new workbench, painted floor and organize my tools. Do you have an recommendations on a resin 3D printer? I just want a good quality machine for a beginner.

Honestly, my suggestion would be to learn from my mistake and start with FDM first.

Resin has a lot of advantages when it comes to fine detail but you'll find yourself limited almost entirely to only ornamental objects going that route. You're dealing with toxic chemicals that you're not supposed to touch and you'll have to wear a mask when working with plus plan on ventilation for where you use, you have to go through a wash and post-printing curing process with every piece and you can't just flush the alcohol and other liquids used in that process down the drain. Being careful not to tear or puncture the FEP, replacing the FEP, getting your print to not stick to the FEP - none of it's impossible but as a beginner, it's a little daunting. You're not even supposed to have skin contact with the materials until they've been fully cured. Even the resin you see that's labeled "water washable" results in water you have to go to lengths to properly dispose of.

You'll need to consider slicing and figuring out strategies to drain liquid resin from the cavities of prints how to get light into those cavities to ensure the insides are properly cured along with unintuitive infill and things like the effects of not just gravity but tension and other forces while printing when placing supports because these delicate pieces are constantly getting ripped from the FEP and pulled through a liquid with the consistency of whole milk - there's just a lot to it for first starting out and if I'd had it all to do over again, I'd have started with FDM and then gotten into resin instead of the other way around.

I went that route first because at the time, FDM print quality was just nowhere remotely close and those machines were largely janky project kit builds with exposed wiring all over the place that people always had to struggle to maintain unless they were willing to drop money on a Prusa out of the gate which when you're just seeing if you even like the hobby, is a lot.

But thanks largely to one manufacturer bringing high-end features previously only found in commercial printers to relatively cheap prosumer and then consumer printers and focusing on quality and ease of use and then everyone else in the industry basically copying them, FDM is SO much easier these days with hugely improved quality and much more versatile results with a whole variety of materials that range from flexible TPU to PLAs with wood in them all the way up to carbon fiber.

Even if you're thinking all you want to do is make Warhamer figures, I'd suggest an A1 mini with the AMS lite as a good cheap first printer. Stick a 2mm print head and marvel at how good the detail can be, how cheap the material is, how easy the cleanup on the model is and how having the piece fall off the edge of a table won't usually do it any harm.

Having said that, I've mostly gone Elegoo with my resin hardware because they were one of the first to offer higher quality at lower prices. Between the main brands, the difference usually comes down to actual printer specs - volume of the printable area and the resolution of the screen for the most important aspects. There are some things people prefer such as the leveling or mounting process for one print bed vs. another but they all generally require the use of the same one or two software slicers out there since one slicer company controls the market on the controller boards inside almost all of the consumer/hobby level resin printers.

If you have an idea that you might want to print slightly large resin, I'd suggest any of the Elegoo Saturn line. You'll find that most complex pieces made by others are already designed in parts for assembly after printing in order to pull off the finished shapes so you probably don't need as big of a print bed as you might first imagine when using other's designs and you'll quickly discover the benefits of that yourself if you're interested in designing your own pieces.

These days I have a Mars Pro and the original all metal enclosure Jupiter (only thing I've ever gotten delivered in an actual wooden crate) and then also an Anycubic 10k for extra fine detail that doesn't have a huge print bed area. Personally, I find that the larger you go with resin printers, the more hassle every aspect of it becomes - you are dealing with a larger heavier bed, you're needing to load more chemical, cleanup of everything takes longer - both the hardware and the print. You have to consider your post-processing options for larger prints with containers, and solvents and such. The Saturn line is a good middle-ground between size and hassle.

Not to beat a dead horse but I tried FDM about a year after I started with resin and even with the lesser quality results and janky quality of the hardware, I found I used it WAY more just because there was no mess to deal with and for the most part, post processing all depends on how much you want to do for quality with no consideration of what you have to do to make it safe... and in general, there are a lot more interesting things you can do with that process and materials.

Fumes with certain materials require ventilation but the most common beginner ones, PLA and PTEG, are supposed to be safe.

I've been through a number of FDM printers over the years and today am solidly a Bambu Lab fan-boy. There are people that don't like them for a variety of reasons (some legit and some, IMO, not) but none of those reasons have to do with ease of use or the quality of the results.

If you have any questions or want any more info on any of this, hit me up with a DM and I'll be more than happy to share anything I know and any experience I have.
 
Last edited:

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Honestly, my suggestion would be to learn from my mistake and start with FDM first.

Resin has a lot of advantages when it comes to fine detail but you'll find yourself limited almost entirely to only ornamental objects going that route. You're dealing with toxic chemicals that you're not supposed to touch and you'll have to wear a mask when working with plus plan on ventilation for where you use, you have to go through a wash and post-printing curing process with every piece and you can't just flush the alcohol and other liquids used in that process down the drain. Being careful not to tear or puncture the FEP, replacing the FEP, getting your print to not stick to the FEP - none of it's impossible but as a beginner, it's a little daunting. You're not even supposed to have skin contact with the materials until they've been fully cured. Even the resin you see that's labeled "water washable" results in water you have to go to lengths to properly dispose of.

You'll need to consider slicing and figuring out strategies to drain liquid resin from the cavities of prints how to get light into those cavities to ensure the insides are properly cured along with unintuitive infill and things like the effects of not just gravity but tension and other forces while printing when placing supports because these delicate pieces are constantly getting ripped from the FEP and pulled through a liquid with the consistency of whole milk - there's just a lot to it for first starting out and if I'd had it all to do over again, I'd have started with FDM and then gotten into resin instead of the other way around.

I went that route first because at the time, FDM print quality was just nowhere remotely close and those machines were largely janky project kit builds with exposed wiring all over the place that people always had to struggle to maintain unless they were willing to drop money on a Prusa out of the gate which when you're just seeing if you even like the hobby, is a lot.

But thanks largely to one manufacturer bringing high-end features previously only found in commercial printers to relatively cheap prosumer and then consumer printers and focusing on quality and ease of use and then everyone else in the industry basically copying them, FDM is SO much easier these days with hugely improved quality and much more versatile results with a whole variety of materials that range from flexible TPU to PLAs with wood in them all the way up to carbon fiber.

Even if you're thinking all you want to do is make Warhamer figures, I'd suggest an A1 mini with the AMS lite as a good cheap first printer. Stick a 2mm print head and marvel at how good the detail can be, how cheap the material is, how easy the cleanup on the model is and how having the piece fall off the edge of a table won't usually do it any harm.

Having said that, I've mostly gone Elegoo with my resin hardware because they were one of the first to offer higher quality at lower prices. Between the main brands, the difference usually comes down to actual printer specs - volume of the printable area and the resolution of the screen for the most important aspects. There are some things people prefer such as the leveling or mounting process for one print bed vs. another but they all generally require the use of the same one or two software slicers out there since one slicer company controls the market on the controller boards inside almost all of the consumer/hobby level resin printers.

If you have an idea that you might want to print slightly large resin, I'd suggest any of the Elegoo Saturn line. You'll find that most complex pieces made by others are already designed in parts for assembly after printing in order to pull off the finished shapes so you probably don't need as big of a print bed as you might first imagine when using other's designs and you'll quickly discover the benefits of that yourself if you're interested in designing your own pieces.

These days I have a Mars Pro and the original all metal enclosure Jupiter (only thing I've ever gotten delivered in an actual wooden crate) and then also an Anycubic 10k for extra fine detail that doesn't have a huge print bed area. Personally, I find that the larger you go with resin printers, the more hassle every aspect of it becomes - you are dealing with a larger heavier bed, you're needing to load more chemical, cleanup of everything takes longer - both the hardware and the print, you have to consider your post-processing options for larger prints with containers, and solvents and such. The Saturn line is a good middle-ground between size and hassle.

Not to beat a dead horse but I tried FDM about a year after I started with resin and even with the lesser quality results and janky quality of the hardware, I found I used it WAY more just because there was no mess to deal with and for the most part, post processing all depends on how much you want to do for quality with not consideration of what you have to do to make it safe.

I've been through a number of FDM printers over the years and today am solidly a Bambu Lab fan-boy. There are people that don't like them for a variety of reasons (some legit and some, IMO, not) but none of those reasons have to do with ease of use or the quality of the results.

If you have any questions or want any more info on any of this, hit me up with a DM and I'll be more than happy to share anything I know and any experience I have.
Thanks for a great intro on 3d printers. We are mostly going to print armor or accessories for Transformers or Star Wars. The prints won't be huge. My son wants Bambu.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Thanks for a great intro on 3d printers. We are mostly going to print armor or accessories for Transformers or Star Wars. The prints won't be huge. My son wants Bambu.

Your son and I could hang.

The Bambu A1 Mini is the printer I wish could have been my very first printer. (I recommend the combo with the AMS lite, even if you're not planning much or any multi-color printing -it's useful for more than that and you save about $100 by getting them together)

FDM is definitely what I'd recommend for what you guys want to do. If he's at least approaching double-digits in age, you'll be able to learn this together to a degree that he'll be able to safely use the printer himself if you want.

Most of what you print with resin is intended to result in things you'd put on a shelf and admire. FDM will give you stuff you both can manhandle. :)
 
Last edited:

Disney Irish

Premium Member
I’ll need to revisit the article but seems like an odd thing to do. Or if you re going to do that show the finished work in the same article
As @MrPromey stated, the article isn't really meant for general Disney Park fans like most here who would be looking at this from a "What's it going to look like when installed in the Park?" perspective, as one would expect from a Parks Blog.

Its a tech article to show off the technology and its capabilities, its meant for a completely different audience all together.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I guess it’s not fair to compare to the era when one visionary and his fixation/ attention to detail were in control.
I think you're missing that Walt's fixation with authentic wasn't always uniform - his fixation wasn't really on something being authentic as much as it was about his fixation on the END GAME - believing/credible. Using authentic pieces was one of his methods to spin the tale.. he wanted the moment to be w/o distraction and the scene to support the idea/image/story as much as he could muster. Remember, at the end of the day, he still had a fiberglass and wood castle and a miniature main street with foam heads running around. He was creating immersion and storytelling.. not recreating things with originals above all else.

Many elements like the Steam engines were more so because of his personal passions.
Obviously not everything is authentic as the wrought iron in NOS is or once was. But I was referring more to quality craftsmanship and if something feels authentic.

'feels authentic' is the right focus.. not how they get there. Because how they get there will constantly improve and evolve... we don't need to build with pegs and iron pins to make something look like it was.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
I think you're missing that Walt's fixation with authentic wasn't always uniform - his fixation wasn't really on something being authentic as much as it was about his fixation on the END GAME - believing/credible. Using authentic pieces was one of his methods to spin the tale.. he wanted the moment to be w/o distraction and the scene to support the idea/image/story as much as he could muster. Remember, at the end of the day, he still had a fiberglass and wood castle and a miniature main street with foam heads running around. He was creating immersion and storytelling.. not recreating things with originals above all else.

Many elements like the Steam engines were more so because of his personal passions.


'feels authentic' is the right focus.. not how they get there. Because how they get there will constantly improve and evolve... we don't need to build with pegs and iron pins to make something look like it was.

I agree with your main point. I didn’t say everything Walt brought to the park was authentic. The wrought iron in NOS was one example of something that was. All that matters is if it feels authentic to the guest. I was comparing finished items of quality craftsmanship that appear authentic to the guest to the wrought iron work shared in the article.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
I agree with your main point. I didn’t say everything Walt brought to the park was authentic. The wrought iron in NOS was one example of something that was. All that matters is if it feels authentic to the guest. I was comparing finished items of quality craftsmanship that appear authentic to the guest to the wrought iron work shared in the article.
If they put something in the Park and it "looks" authentic with "quality craftsmanship" do you really care how its made? Or the flip side if you found that that all the wrought iron in NOS was actually just pressed steel from a mold instead of made by hand, does that mean its not of "quality craftsmanship" and loses its "appeal"?
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
If they put something in the Park and it "looks" authentic with "quality craftsmanship" do you really care how its made? Or the flip side if you found that that all the wrought iron in NOS was actually just pressed steel from a mold instead of made by hand, does that mean its not of "quality craftsmanship" and loses its "appeal"?

I literally just said all that matters is that it looks authentic. Are you guys reading my posts? I don't think the iron work shared in the article looks authentic but I gave a few reasons of why that may be and apparently it may not even be finished.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
I literally just said all that matters is that it looks authentic. Are you guys reading my posts? I don't think the iron work shared in the article looks authentic but I gave a few reasons of why that may be and apparently it may not even be finished.
The point was that if they put that specific piece of 3D printed iron work in the Park and you weren't told it wasn't real wrought iron you'd probably never notice it. Its only once you are told its not "real" wrought iron and fabricated instead that is when it lose its appeal and looks "fake". You even mention this on the first page where you say you don't know if it looks "plasticky" to you because you know its not "authentic".

Its the old "finding out what's behind the curtain" situation. Being part of the fandom and learning all the inside stuff ends up having that effect on many people, some of the magic is lost.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
The point was that if they put that specific piece of 3D printed iron work in the Park and you weren't told it wasn't real wrought iron you'd probably never notice it. Its only once you are told its not "real" wrought iron and fabricated instead that is when it lose its appeal and looks "fake". You even mention this on the first page where you say you don't know if it looks "plasticky" to you because you know its not "authentic".

Its the old "finding out what's behind the curtain" situation. Being part of the fandom and learning all the inside stuff ends up having that effect on many people, some of the magic is lost.

So why are you repeating what I'm saying?
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Ok but I never came to a conclusion. The jury is still out on the quality of that themed iron work as far as I’m concerned.
Lol, well I don't think there is a "conclusion" here that will satisfy you. You have several posters here telling you that the quality would be up to the level where you wouldn't tell the difference, as its just a different method of creation using the same materials.

So really the only way that is going to satisfy you is going to see it in-person so you can judge it yourself. And well that is just going to have to wait until they place one inside the Parks. And who knows when that will be, if its not already done.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom