Is Main Street keeping up with America's real Main Streets?

[lazyboy97o]

What’s interesting about this question is that in many ways real Main Streets have also tried to keep up with the image created by Main Streets, USA. Richard Francaviglia explores this in his book Main Street Revisited: Time, Space, and Image Building in Small-Town America. It’s a good read for anyone interested in the idea of Main Street.

Disneyland in particular one can see how it has changed. Today’s color palette is much brighter than the original, more subdued and earth-toned palette that was more in line with the land’s midwestern and western inspiration.

The texture of Main Street, USA at Magic Kingdom is an area where is does fall short, especially when you compare it to Paris which borrowed a lot of the form of the land but utilized the actual materials.

 

[jah4955]

What’s interesting about this question is that in many ways real Main Streets have also tried to keep up with the image created by Main Streets, USA. Richard Francaviglia explores this in his book Main Street Revisited: Time, Space, and Image Building in Small-Town America. It’s a good read for anyone interested in the idea of Main Street.

Disneyland in particular one can see how it has changed. Today’s color palette is much brighter than the original, more subdued and earth-toned palette that was more in line with the land’s midwestern and western inspiration.

The texture of Main Street, USA at Magic Kingdom is an area where is does fall short, especially when you compare it to Paris which borrowed a lot of the form of the land but utilized the actual materials.

I'm going to find that book @lazyboy97o

I got EXTREMELY nervous when I saw the title of this thread, but I would not shed a tear if we replaced the sidewalks and streets with bricks and pavers.

The Disneyland Main Street pavers are an "accident." They first tried a "cheap fix" that made it irreparably worse and did the vastly-more-expensive pavers to "make it right." The more-recent bricks-along-the-tracks in Disneyland was part of a greater total trolly car track replacement (many parts of which were still from 1955 and those have since been transferred to Archives).

Main Street was never meant to be an-historically-accurate representation of some actual Main Street (though it draws inspiration from many like Harper Goff's Fort Collins)...It's greater goal is reassurance, setting the mood, breaking away from the travails of the "real world"

*btw My favorite non-Disney "Main Street" is Dahlonega

 

[Goofyernmost]

Are we in agreement that brick was used for streets at the turn of the century? Disney's Main Street is not, of course, an "average" or "common" town (it's got a fancy train station, Exposition Hall, and Crystal Palace), so it would make sense to have brick streets, yes? Which is likely why Disney's other (not Magic Kingdom) Main Streets already have so much brick?
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I understand and agree that brick was used during that time, however, since Main Street USA was modeled after the place he grew up (allegedly) Marcelene, MO. would in all probability not be one of those places and it as to rural to afford such a thing in the early 1900's. Below is a photo of that time from Marcelene's Historical Society and that was my point.

 

[GraysonsDad]

I agree, if you want to keep it current with today, it would need at least one storefront abandoned with broken glass, one going out of business sign, one rundown business, more pot holes, broken street lamps, transient homeless, one liquor store and a pizzeria.

Don't forget the obnoxious vape shops with all the overly-bright, garish LED signs.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I understand and agree that brick was used during that time, however, since Main Street USA was modeled after the place he grew up (allegedly) Marcelene, MO. would in all probability not be one of those places and it as to rural to afford such a thing in the early 1900's. Below is a photo of that time from Marcelene's Historical Society and that was my point.
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Main Street, USA is not supposed to be Marceline and this is even more so at the Magic Kingdom. It inspired the idea of the land but not its actual look or form, which came from other places.

 

[jah4955]

I understand and agree that brick was used during that time, however, since Main Street USA was modeled after the place he grew up (allegedly) Marcelene, MO. would in all probability not be one of those places and it as to rural to afford such a thing in the early 1900's. Below is a photo of that time from Marcelene's Historical Society and that was my point.
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Marcelene was certainly an early influence of Disneyland's.

More opulent Northeastern Mainstreets added substantial influence behind WDW's (hence bricks not being a stretch).

Although comparatively "big city" it can be argued Kansas City, MO also influenced to a degree. It's where Walt saw (at least one of) his first movies...Snow White (as a paperboy shown simultaneously on multiple screens...definitely an influence on 1937's film...arguably an influence on Main Street Cinema (at Disneyland's).

They were going to expand on the Kansas City theme for the Main Street Theater that never saw the light of day beyond Dexpo.

 

[jah4955]

Main Street, USA is not supposed to be Marceline and this is even more so at the Magic Kingdom. It inspired the idea of the land but not its actual look or form, which came from other places.

Agreed. None of the Disney Main Streets were ever meant to harken to any one non-Disney Main Street.

Btw...I'm getting your book recommendation for Christmas from a friend who also uses these forums...thanks again!

 

[JIMINYCR]

Tell that from the emporium all the way to Casey's that...They use to be seperate store venues...

But they are still there aren't they, in the spot they have always been. The only change is opening up a walk through. But we aren't addressing the stores but the look of the roadway and sidewalks.

 

[jah4955]

Tell that from the emporium all the way to Casey's that...They use to be seperate store venues...

Great discussion on this on this forum:

S

Thread 'The "House of Magic" shop at Magic Kingdom'

May 4, 2017

Hi all. One of the fondest memories I have as a child at the Magic Kingdom was at a shop on Main Street that sold really cool things, where I purchased a rubber head 8" Werewolf Mego like doll (yes, the Universal one I think), various child magic tricks, and a Disney how to do magic book.

I later learned the name of this shop was "House Of Magic". And I do remember the various rubber monster masks behind the counter as well. So much fun. But there is not much online about this great store. I found this great video below, but I was wondering if anyone knows of other footage of this store...

• Sundown
• Replies: 73
• Forum: WDW Parks General Discussion

• 

 

[jah4955]

But they are still there aren't they, in the spot they have always been. The only change is opening up a walk through. But we aren't addressing the stores but the look of the roadway and sidewalks.

not quite....they knocked down most interior walls for the western Main Street building....the storefronts are virtually identical however over 54 years (they relatively-recently restored "House of Magic" to its original look. Penny Arcade Marque still there but advertising a different "business" The closure of West-Center-Street definitely contributed to the ability of walking end-to-end (to south wall of Casey's Corner) without ever stepping outside. This summer they streamlined the interior in-part to make traversing-from-the-inside even easier.

 

[DrStarlander]

I understand and agree that brick was used during that time, however, since Main Street USA was modeled after the place he grew up (allegedly) Marcelene, MO. would in all probability not be one of those places and it as to rural to afford such a thing in the early 1900's. Below is a photo of that time from Marcelene's Historical Society and that was my point.
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Main Street USA was spiritually, so to speak, inspired by Marceline and Walt's fondness for small town America, but it is not at all a recreation in any way. Not only is the architectural style much more ornate and Victorian and festooned with details compared to Marceline, but there are elaborate features, functions, and vehicles that were not at all found in the more simple Marceline.

A recreation of turn of the century Marceline -- should they choose to do that -- could involve simulated dirt using textured and stained concrete with wagon ruts and horse hoof imprints (all typical for thematic paving in modern theme parks), but that's not what the pink and gray concrete are trying to represent. The pink concrete is probably pink to suggest brick, chromatically. But that's the way walkways were done in the 1970s. Fine for the era. Not now.

 

[jah4955]

Main Street USA was spiritually, so to speak, inspired by Marceline and Walt's fondness for small town America, but it is not at all a recreation in any way. Not only is the architectural style much more ornate and Victorian and festooned with details compared to Marceline, but there are elaborate features, functions, and vehicles that were not at all found in the more simple Marceline.

A recreation of turn of the century Marceline -- should they choose to do that -- could involve simulated dirt using textured and stained concrete with wagon ruts and horse hoof imprints (all typical for thematic paving in modern theme parks), but that's not what the pink and gray concrete are trying to represent. The pink concrete is actually representing brick, chromatically, believe it or not. But done the way walkways were done in the 1970s. Fine for the era. Not now.

Another plus of Disney's Main Streets over turn-of-the-20th-century mainstreeets are that droppings are picked-up right-away

(although they don't seem to be brought-out as often (just like the other Main Street Vehicles).

 

[Goofyernmost]

Main Street, USA is not supposed to be Marceline and this is even more so at the Magic Kingdom. It inspired the idea of the land but not its actual look or form, which came from other places.

That is true, but the basic Idea came from memories and that was the feel he wanted to project, in a more modern manner.

Marcelene was certainly an early influence of Disneyland's.

More opulent Northeastern Mainstreets added substantial influence behind WDW's (hence bricks not being a stretch).

Although comparatively "big city" it can be argued Kansas City, MO also influenced to a degree. It's where Walt saw (at least one of) his first movies...Snow White (as a paperboy shown simultaneously on multiple screens...definitely an influence on 1937's film...arguably an influence on Main Street Cinema (at Disneyland's).

They were going to expand on the Kansas City theme for the Main Street Theater that never saw the light of day beyond Dexpo.

I never said that everything was from Marcelene, but he was basically an adult by the time he got to Kansas City. My point was that if they ever wanted to make it look a lot like Marcelene the would need to take some of the pile of dirt near what once was RoA and throw it around, scape all the paint off and any you could buy a Buick for 10 cents and get change back.

Agreed. None of the Disney Main Streets were ever meant to harken to any one non-Disney Main Street.

Btw...I'm getting your book recommendation for Christmas from a friend who also uses these forums...thanks again!

Walt didn't just conjured up the image from some of his hair follicles and then after he died they decided to change the image of the first one? Some of you I know are quite strongly into minor details that don't mean crap. The whole place is fantasy. There is no book on how to design a Disney Main Street except the one the Walt created for his park and what has been changed since then. I was going to say parks because there are more of them now. He was gone by the time the second one was created. I've only been to three castle parks and if there was any difference in the design of Main Street it wasn't seen by me, however the exact same vibe was present in all three and one even had a Main Street USA image in Paris. That one like Disneyland and Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom. If they were significantly different it was obvious to only a few. Certainly not to me or maybe I just didn't find it necessary to put things under a microscope. I just went with the feel and that was always the same.

You folks maybe right but if they were trying to get a changed optic than the Disneyland one, they failed miserable. I didn't spend every day in the parks but my 48 visits over the last 40 years. I have never seen any significant difference in the feel of the external vision as you enter the street. There is probably thousands of things that vary the absolute reality of the projected time. They might have knocked out walls and actually painted all of them that was not in his memory. Hell they even have electricity, central air conditioning, computers and running water in the interior, but nothing has changed the aura that has been there since the beginning.

They have altered the mission of Main Street than the beginning, but if you wish to spend hundreds to dollars to get into a gate and then spend the whole day going from one retail establishment to another, then I will agree that you can't buy a bra or a piano in any of the "stores" anymore, Gee... I do so miss that!

 

[lazyboy97o]

I never said that everything was from Marcelene, but he was basically an adult by the time he got to Kansas City.

The Disney’s lived in Marceline from 1905 - 1909. Walt was 8 when they left.

My point was that if they ever wanted to make it look a lot like Marcelene the would need to take some of the pile of dirt near what once was RoA and throw it around, scape all the paint off and any you could buy a Buick for 10 cents and get change back.

Nobody ever wanted to make it look like Marceline, so why bring it up?

There is no book on how to design a Disney Main Street except the one the Walt created for his park and what has been changed since then.

Except for the books, movies and other documents that were used for research when drawing up the lands in each iteration…

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

Nobody ever wanted to make it look like Marceline, so why bring it up?

Not sure what Is exciting about this...Oh, I know..There isn't a starbucks there....Let alone a good Hot Dog Stand...

 

[networkpro]

There are sooo many small town centers here in Texas that have been revitalized, or never lost their charm in the first place.
Many, now, are surrounded by vast suburban areas because of so many people moving here, but the town centers maintain their charm.
People love it that way.
No boarded up buildings, no graffiti, no lounging drunk on the corner swiggin’ a 40 ouncer at 3a, no crack dealers, etc.
I like to think that “Main Street” is makin’ a comeback in this country…!!!

Surrounded by NIMBYs , bulldozing the countryside for more Starbucks, Dutch Brothers (better) and all hat no cattle. Just facades

 

[DrStarlander]

Some of you I know are quite strongly into minor details that don't mean crap. The whole place is fantasy.

I've only been to three castle parks and if there was any difference in the design of Main Street it wasn't seen by me

I have never seen any significant difference in the feel of the external vision as you enter the street.

You have a lot to say about Main Street for someone who doesn't care about the "crap" details and can't tell the differences between the different Main Streets anyway. Why are you chiming in on this topic so much, if you don't care?

The details mean a lot to me. I think they were important to Walt Disney. I think they were important to many of the Imagineers I most admire. I kind of think minding the details is core to the Disney company DNA, historically. I'm not critical of you for not caring. Enjoy theme parks however you want. But I'd have you consider that if Disney (the man, and the company) had taken a "details don't mean a crap" approach, its doubtful we would be talking about the 100-year-old company today.

 

[donaldtoo]

Surrounded by NIMBYs , bulldozing the countryside for more Starbucks, Dutch Brothers (better) and all hat no cattle. Just facades

Not exactly sure where you were goin’ with this. Are you talkin’ about the town centers makin’ a comeback, or the suburban areas…or both…?
We live near a few, have been to many others, and they are thriving, so we’re seein’ both hat and cattle.
Also, as far as hats and cattle go, we have a family farm in south-central Texas, about 7 miles outside of my Pops hometown. My cousin, her husband and their 3 sons began running about 40 head of cattle on it again recently (the last herd was sold off during the drought several years ago).
They do wear cowboy hats, btw.
Along with leasing much of the farmland out to neighbors, we also have an oil well on that farm, and their fixin’ to drill another one on the back 40 (200 acres).
So, we not only have hat and cattle, but oil as well…pun intended…!!!!!

 

[jah4955]

I never said that everything was from Marcelene,

I never thought that you said everything was from Marcelene.

Walt didn't just conjured up the image from some of his hair follicles and then after he died they decided to change the image of the first one?

I never intended to touch anyone's nerves here...or anywhere for that matter....but certainly not here. I thought I was making a post akin to "the sky is blue; the trees are green."

Some of you I know are quite strongly into minor details that don't mean crap.

Are you kidding? The minor details are what made/makes Disney Disney. There are so very many anecdotes, mostly from Disneyland's construction, of Walt insisting on details that his Imagineeers initially thought that no one else would notice, let alone appreciate (they were mostly "on-board" once they saw that, once again, Walt knew what he was talking about). The details are why Disneyland and most of his milestones went way over the initial respective budgets.

The minor details all, however subconsciously, collaborated to contribute to the intangible, arguably transcendent experience that many happily go into debt to re-experience. You reminded me of another point more applicable for the "CFO" forum I'll make later. I want to stay focused on-topic so my post doesn't get deleted lol.

I've only been to three castle parks and if there was any difference in the design of Main Street it wasn't seen by me

I've only been to WDW, but based on all photos/videos I've ever seen, the layouts may be similar and the timeframe may be relatively close to each other, but, with the possible exception of Disneyland and Hong Kong Disneyland, I feel they are variations are numerous. WDW's is a more opulent/recent version of DL's. Paris is a more recent version compared to WDW's.

You folks maybe right but if they were trying to get a changed optic than the Disneyland one, they failed miserable. I didn't spend every day in the parks but my 48 visits over the last 40 years. I have never seen any significant difference in the feel of the external vision as you enter the street.

However the particular details, I feel all the Mainstreets contribute towards a similar goal: getting the guest into the right disposition. Main Street is, in-part, supposed to be an arrow pointing to the castle, or a reminder that the famous attractions are just a few more steps away. I remember as a child not wanting to spend any time on Main Street as I wanted to maximize my time on the "rides." But I've been privileged to go often enough to start taking the time to appreciate many of the details offered (and, thank goodness, while many of those details were still there!).

That being said, I love hearing/reading/seeing the comparisons made by those who have visited, and appreciated, more than one Main Street. They all say things along these lines:

Disneyland's Mainstreet is better in THIS way, but WDW's is better in THAT way, but Paris's has THIS going for it.....etc etc

 

[jah4955]

Some of you I know are quite strongly into minor details that don't mean crap.

I'm posting this on 2 forums because it's relevant in 2 forums in two different ways.

From Bob Thomas' biography on Walt Disney

"Walt insisted on fine furnishings for the restaurants, even though they would be serving reasonably priced meals. He believed that if a family sat under a $50,000 [$608,239 in 2025 dollars] chandelier and ate good food at a fair price, the experience would add to their enjoyment of the park."