News Disney CFO Hugh Johnston Says Dynamic Pricing Is Coming to the Parks

[Disstevefan1]

A lot of people are locked into WDW trips because of their DVC contract

If it wasn't for their timeshare program, how much worse off would WDW be?

It's the only Disney theme park resort globally that is so dependent on them

I think that DEVers get their tickets well in advance out of necessity and therefore will get the lowest ticket price anyway.

 

[flynnibus]

While this is true, Orlando isn't exactly flush with interesting things to see/do. It's not really a tourist destination without the theme parks; it would be tough to go there yearly and be entertained if you're not visiting any parks. It would be a bit like buying a timeshare in Houston or Atlanta.

Crazy talk. Get outside the bubble more and see more of the attractions. Even if you just look at things like KSC, Discovery Cove, etc.. and that's not counting all the smaller attractions and activities.

What is true is it's mostly tourist/entertainment stuff.. and not as much nature/retreat/relax kind of stuff.. and if you were staying at DVC (per this hypothesis) you would be missing out on some of the higher end accommodations that do have more of that for their guests.

 

[MrPromey]

Most of the people here are not stock holders - they're customers. If Target started trying surge pricing on merchandise or they were raising the price on exclusive brands to weed out less profitable customers they consider "undesirable" in their stores and you went onto a Target customer forum and tried explaining how customer hostile movies are simply good business sense, you wouldn't expect to be changing any minds, would you?



Of course, defending Disney's good business sense these days is also pretty laughable seeing as how the stock is trading at about what it was in early 2015, almost 50% down from it's high of 2021. We won't even talk about how inflation dilutes that value even more.

 

[Nunu]

You still struggling to understand the phenom that people will go into vacation mode and defer the transaction cost/worry until later? And that doesn't make them 'too stupid' to realize it.. it's just opt'ing to not worry about it and do what you WANT.. and he's talking about buyers remorse afterwards.

Specially with the Epcot festivals (which is what started the arguments), it's easy to lose track of cost at the kiosks. The "I'll get a bite here and there/want to try this and that" mode can easily get out of hand, and before you realize, all those 'bites' turn into having spent a lot more than expected.

This used to happen to me a lot, lol. I'd like to think that I've gotten better at it, now I kinda know which kiosks are worth it/have more generous portions. And when in doubt, I take a peek at what people are getting before buying.

 

[MrPromey]

Specially with the Epcot festivals (which is what started the arguments), it's easy to lose track of cost at the kiosks. The "I'll get a bite here and there/want to try this and that" mode can easily get out of hand, and before you realize, all those 'bites' turn into having spent a lot more than expected.

This used to happen to me a lot, lol. I'd like to think that I've gotten better at it, now I kinda know which kiosks are worth it/have more generous portions. And when in doubt, I take a peek at what people are getting before buying.

Careful there, bud. You're starting to sound mighty low-yield.

 

[UNCgolf]

Crazy talk. Get outside the bubble more and see more of the attractions. Even if you just look at things like KSC, Discovery Cove, etc.. and that's not counting all the smaller attractions and activities.

What is true is it's mostly tourist/entertainment stuff.. and not as much nature/retreat/relax kind of stuff.. and if you were staying at DVC (per this hypothesis) you would be missing out on some of the higher end accommodations that do have more of that for their guests.

My sister used to live in Orlando; I've spent far more time outside of the bubble in Orlando than I've ever spent in it.

Discovery Cove is part of the theme park industry. The Kennedy Center is excellent, but that's one thing. It's also exactly why I mentioned Houston and Atlanta. Most US cities have things worth seeing -- Atlanta, e.g., has one of the world's best aquariums and an excellent civil rights center/museum, among other things -- but I can't imagine anyone wanting to take a yearly trip there. I wasn't suggesting there is nothing else in Orlando, but that's not really the point.

Again, nobody is buying a timeshare in Orlando if the theme parks don't exist. It's not a destination city and certainly not somewhere most people would want to visit yearly.

 

[BrianLo]

and our kids are in their mid-to-late 20's (so late Millennial/very early Gen Z), definitely old enough to have their own children.

Just to clarify when I’m referring to millennials I’m often talking about late 30’s core of the cohort. Gen Z starts at 1997 and I think there is material weakness in that age cohort already (a child of the 2000’s, no longer a child of the Disney renaissance, born and memories long after the parks started to rapidly deteriorate in the latter 90s).

Millennials by and large are functional adults now, with jobs, kids and independence. Your oldest might be a zillennial. I’m parsing because I do think there’s a massive affinity difference between myself and people a decade younger.

Both can be true.

Absolutely, but I’ve long suspected we (Royal we) were using different cohort definitions. I do wholeheartedly think it is true of your kids generation and have said so many times here!

Your kids generation is going to give the company big issues when they age into financial independence.

 

[BrianLo]

A lot of people are locked into WDW trips because of their DVC contract

If it wasn't for their timeshare program, how much worse off would WDW be?

It's the only Disney theme park resort globally that is so dependent on them

It tends to be a bit overstated how large the DVC pool is. We’re only coming up on 12.5% of onsite/onsite-partner guests. If you mix in off site, DVC are still single digits of the attendance mix.

It’s still important strategically and contributes some attendance smoothing.

Likewise the locked in part is a bit of a lie the people who still clearly want to go tell themselves. Exceptionally easy to rent out points.

I do think DVC functionally is analogous to Disneylands AP base.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I do think DVC functionally is analogous to Disneylands AP base.

You are entitled to that opinion but it’s demonstrably wrong. DL APers held a small amount of sway. DVC owners have no such power. Disney wants one base but not the other.

 

[BrianLo]

You are entitled to that opinion but it’s demonstrably wrong. DL APers held a small amount of sway. DVC owners have no such power. Disney wants one base but not the other.

I meant analogous in terms of attendance smoothing for either resort. While an individual DVC owners does not spread out, the entire membership does.

You think APs are more appreciated / have more sway than DVC? Hmm, that’s an interesting position. Not one I have considered.

Functionally Disneyland APers are more frequent, more coordinated and more present. Which is perhaps what you are feeling. Technically DVC owners have more power, but are still largely out of state vacationers. I think “the company” writ large likes DVCers more because they have much higher personal earnings.

 

[Ayla]

Just to clarify when I’m referring to millennials I’m often talking about late 30’s core of the cohort. Gen Z starts at 1997 and I think there is material weakness in that age cohort already (a child of the 2000’s, no longer a child of the Disney renaissance, born and memories long after the parks started to rapidly deteriorate in the latter 90s).

Millennials by and large are functional adults now, with jobs, kids and independence. Your oldest might be a zillennial. I’m parsing because I do think there’s a massive affinity difference between myself and people a decade younger.



Absolutely, but I’ve long suspected we (Royal we) were using different cohort definitions. I do wholeheartedly think it is true of your kids generation and have said so many times here!

Your kids generation is going to give the company big issues when they age into financial independence.

Good god, our oldest is almost 29. He's been 100% financially independent since he was 22.

 

[BrianLo]

Good god, our oldest is almost 29. He's been 100% financially independent since he was 22.

He’s a Zillennial but also way ahead of the curve. The majority of the lucky core of Gen Z still are in various stages of higher education, living at home, on their parents cell phone plan, the older ones leaning on their parents for a house down payment. Or even with all that in the bag - I still bet using their parents DVC. The young end of the cohort is finishing high school, obviously.

When I say independent I mean DVC purchasing age, paying for their own Disney trips and cruises. Some of my cohort is helping finance their parents retirement, myself included. If your kids are there they are awesomely ahead of their average peers, but your eldest is also very in between.

Gen Z broadly are not the demo financing the families vacation choices - yet!

 

[jah4955]

from Philadelphia (where most of my US-based family is from):

"a personal experience with rising prices. [1 woman] recently received a stack of take-out menus in her mailbox. After being surprised by the prices on the menus, she compared them to some older menus she had. A plain large cheese pizza ... has nearly doubled from $12 to $22. A regular hamburger is up to $9.50 from $4.95. A hoagie which was once about $7 is now $14.95. A nearby bagel shop which once sold a dozen bagels for $10 now charges $27. Her local Chinese take-out spot now offers fried rice or lo mein noodles for $17 – items which were once $7.95."

The ongoing inflation certainly doesn't make a superinflated WDW trip more feasible.

 

[Ayla]

He’s a Zillennial but also way ahead of the curve. The majority of the lucky core of Gen Z still are in various stages of higher education, living at home, on their parents cell phone plan, the older ones leaning on their parents for a house down payment. Or even with all that in the bag - I still bet using their parents DVC. The young end of the cohort is finishing high school, obviously.

When I say independent I mean DVC purchasing age, paying for their own Disney trips and cruises. Some of my cohort is helping finance their parents retirement, myself included. If your kids are there they are awesomely ahead of their average peers, but your eldest is also very in between.

Gen Z broadly are not the demo financing the families vacation choices - yet!

The advantages of a college degree are many.

He pays for his own vacations - just not to Disney. I've outlined them here before, but he just returned from Hawaii and is going to Savannah for a long weekend in a couple weeks, then Costa Rica in March. Mom and Dad weren't invited on any of them.

I think you are underestimating financial means for late 20's/early 30's. They have money to vacation, they just aren't choosing Disney...and that is where Disney is in big trouble.

 

[Ayla]

from Philadelphia (where most of my US-based family is from):

"a personal experience with rising prices. [1 woman] recently received a stack of take-out menus in her mailbox. After being surprised by the prices on the menus, she compared them to some older menus she had. A plain large cheese pizza ... has nearly doubled from $12 to $22. A regular hamburger is up to $9.50 from $4.95. A hoagie which was once about $7 is now $14.95. A nearby bagel shop which once sold a dozen bagels for $10 now charges $27. Her local Chinese take-out spot now offers fried rice or lo mein noodles for $17 – items which were once $7.95."

The ongoing inflation certainly doesn't make a superinflated WDW trip more feasible.

True, but you also aren't forced to eat out, either.

 

[BrianLo]

I think you are underestimating financial means for late 20's/early 30's. They have money to vacation, they just aren't choosing Disney...and that is where Disney is in big trouble.

Indeed, I think my commentary is getting too stuck on your older one. The current mid point of Gen Z are 20 year olds. My mistake was saying “your kids” generation.

What you are saying about your older one I’m not feeling personally disconnected from. I paid my own way to Europe at 23 and Japan at 24. Though I acknowledge that’s privileged. I wasn’t really picturing your oldest when writing my thoughts.

I’ll be very interested how you feel things evolve with them in the grandkids year. My early posting history reflects even my indifference to WDW and preference towards international travel.

 

[flynnibus]

We’re only coming up on 12.5% of onsite/onsite-partner guests.

That estimate is based on what exactly?

 

[jah4955]

True, but you also aren't forced to eat out, either.

of course...but I was simply providing yet another example of the pervasive inflation. As terrible as the inflation of those menus are (about 100% inflation by my calculation)...... it now often costs more to make the equivalent at home between buying the individual ingredients and spending more than you would otherwise on electricity usage

From today's news:
https://www.newser.com/story/379243...=uol&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rss_top

(nevermind all the extra time required for preparing all the food...as "tight" as things are for many with money, I've noticed people also struggling with a far-worse "poverty of time"...which ties to another point....

I know of, oh so many, who always did/do "everything right" (good degree in practical field, working 50+hours (&/or up to 4 jobs in their field...yes 4 (in one case)...but many, many other cases, 2, 3 jobs.... nm "side hustles" like Uber) every week in their professional jobs for a decade++, zero discernible luxuries, and they are still struggling to get proper nutrition (you can't cut rent/mortgage or taxes (w/o moving, and that's an expensive, & time-consuming, ordeal in itself), the only major "cuttable" item left for many is food.

(a partial/tiny solution)...I know of those who routinely "shop around" for restaurants offering "loss leader" deals on certain days of the week (hoping people would also buy drinks/other menu items...They frequently find nutritious, hardy, and even tasty meals that are a quarter of the expense of what it would cost them if they made the most basic meals from their home.

I'm not sure what the real solutions are...but hoping it's being addressed "behind the scenes" by those who can address it. But at this stage simply saying "you also aren't forced to eat out," for many, may come across as salt on the wound. This article (I posted earlier on a related forum) offers cold, hard numbers showing this generation has it much worse in many ways than the Baby Boomers, etc...which is sad b/c part of the American Dream is wanting your children to have a better lifestyle than you had...and this is just part of mountains of evidence that things have gone the opposite direction.

https://bleedingfool.com/blogs/why-telling-millennials-to-cancel-hulu-isnt-the-answer/

And a major reason for the hyperinflation of all those take-out joints is that demand has plummeted due to those who used-to do it, so these places (mostly mom & pops) have to still make-ends-meet by (in part) drastically increasing their prices for those who can still swing it (although that continues the cycle of less and less affording to take out).

BUT ESPECIALLY...

Disney's recent flare-up of (inflated) arrogance of, "Let them eat (cup)cake" just feels like even more salt on the wound.

 

[Ayla]

Indeed, I think my commentary is getting too stuck on your older one. The current mid point of Gen Z are 20 year olds. My mistake was saying “your kids” generation.

What you are saying about your older one I’m not feeling personally disconnected from. I paid my own way to Europe at 23 and Japan at 24. Though I acknowledge that’s privileged. I wasn’t really picturing your oldest when writing my thoughts.

I’ll be very interested how you feel things evolve with them in the grandkids year. My early posting history reflects even my indifference to WDW and preference towards international travel.

Sadly, it is looking like we will never have grandkids, only step grandchildren.

 

[jah4955]

Sadly, it is looking like we will never have grandkids, only step grandchildren.

THAT'S THE WORST/SCARIEST/SADDEST PART OF ALL

Are you reading this Disney????? If there aren't more children (nm those who can afford it)...who's going to turn those "turnstiles?????"