News Disney CFO Hugh Johnston Says Dynamic Pricing Is Coming to the Parks

[GimpYancIent]

People complaining but still spending isn't going to change a thing. Disney execs don't care if you can't afford a Disney vacation if you still go and put it on credit or if you can afford it and are unhappy but still pay.

The only thing that'll ever move them to change course is a loss in profits.

Maybe if you go to guest relations and complain loudly enough, you'll get a free cupcake but spoiler alert, those those $6-$7 cupcakes were almost pure profit, anyway.

Heads they win, tails we lose - only way to win is not to play.

Your previous comparison to casino gambling was a good one. Vegas wasn't built on the backs of winners and these days, neither is Disney.

Correct. The language understood in the corporate world is MONEY (currency). When the revenue streams dry up enough then attention will be paid to causes.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Took the grandkids in 2019 funny they have never asked to go back. Disney wake up

I hear you. Same here.

 

[Chi84]

Heads they win, tails we lose - only way to win is not to play.

But that means not going to Disney. Doesn’t sound like much of a win to me.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Most guests aren't chumps and are not going to look back, especially if the price point only goes up. If they're basing a US rollout on how the Europeans did it and with data collected and feedback derived from DLP, they're going to be very surprised at how big of a mistake they're making.

I'm not sure I would say American's are more cost conscious. Have you seen the line-ups for Popcorn buckets and the craziness that was Taylor Swift tickets? I'd say Americans (for the majority) are a wants based consumer. They will pay for the things they want and worry about paying for it later.

Yeah, I am not getting this suggestion that Europeans will just pay whatever they're asked but Americans are far more informed and cost conscious consumers.

In my experience, Europeans don't generally spend as freely as Americans and I think that was even one of Disneyland Paris' early issues. Even with this dynamic pricing, there are still far, far less upcharges, after hours parties, etc. at Disneyland Paris than at the US parks. They are creeping more and more into the experience, unfortunately, but I kind of wonder whether Disneyland Paris was used as a test for this in part because it is smaller in scale than the US resorts but also because they know if they can get away with stuff like this there, they'll have no issues with WDW and DLR.

Staying at a Disney hotel, the tickets are bundled into the room price so I'm not sure the extent to which this applies. If it does, I must admit it would be hard to tell.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah, I am not getting this suggestion that Europeans will just pay whatever they're asked but Americans are far more informed and cost conscious consumers.

In my experience, Europeans don't generally spend as freely as Americans and I think that was even one of Disneyland Paris' early issues. Even with this dynamic pricing, there are still far, far less upcharges, after hours parties, etc. at Disneyland Paris than at the US parks. They are creeping more and more into the experience, unfortunately, but I kind of wonder whether Disneyland Paris was used as a test for this in part because it is smaller in scale than the US resorts but also because they know if they can get away with stuff like this there, they'll have no issues with WDW and DLR.

Staying at a Disney hotel, the tickets are bundled into the room price so I'm not sure the extent to which this applies. If it does, I must admit it would be hard to tell.

Exactly….

Of the three park complexes under Disneys control…one has the idiot spenders…

Hint: look in the middle

 

[MrPromey]

But that means not going to Disney. Doesn’t sound like much of a win to me.

Maybe a better way of putting it is that the only way not to lose is not to play?

I mean, the death spiral we're now in is that everyone is going until they are priced out and for most of us, it's a question of when rather than if... but it's all a game of chicken. The point at which Disney is losing too much by shedding customers that they can't gain back from charging those who remaining more to make up the difference will be where they feel they've reached equilibrium. That's where they'll have to stop and rethink things.

Question is, will they reach that point before or after they've priced you out?

 

[Chi84]

Maybe a better way of putting it is that the only way not to lose is not to play?

I mean, the death spiral we're now in is that everyone is going until they are priced out and for most of us, it's a question of when rather than if... but it's all a game of chicken. The point at which Disney is losing too much by shedding customers that they can't gain back from charging those who remaining more to make up the difference will be where they feel they've reached equilibrium. That's where they'll have to stop and rethink things.

Question is, will they reach that point before or after they've priced you out?

I’m not sure why answering that question at this time matters.

If Disney rethinks things before I’m priced out I’ll continue as their customer.

If Disney prices me out I’ll go somewhere else and they’ll have to try to get me back or replace me with a new customer.

Look at the posters who continue to visit even though they believe Disney hates or has disdain for them (as though companies have “feelings”), hoping that one day things will get better. It’s going to take a lot to finally lose someone with that type of attachment.

 

[MrPromey]

I’m not sure why answering that question at this time matters.

If Disney rethinks things before I’m priced out I’ll continue as their customer.

If Disney prices me out I’ll go somewhere else and they’ll have to try to get me back or replace me with a new customer.

Look at the posters who continue to visit even though they believe Disney hates or has disdain for them (as though companies have “feelings”), hoping that one day things will get better. It’s going to take a lot to finally lose someone with that type of attachment.

It matters because I'd argue that you win if they stop before you're priced out and you don't if they find their "right sizing" after you've been excluded.

Or at least, one sounds a lot more like fun than the other to me.

I say "you" but that's basically the case for all of us.

 

[Chi84]

It matters because I'd argue that you win if they stop before you're priced out and you don't if they find their "right sizing" after you've been excluded.

Or at least, one sounds a lot more like fun than the other to me.

Of course that would be better but there’s no way of knowing whether or not that will happen.

 

[MrPromey]

Of course that would be better but there’s no way of knowing whether or not that will happen.

I hope it does.

 

[bwmvw]

European here (Netherlands), chiming in because I visit Disneyland Paris regularly and we’ve already lived through Disney rolling out dynamic pricing in 2024. I figured some experience from Paris might help the discussion here, especially since the U.S. and European markets behave pretty differently.

A few things about Europe that really change how dynamic pricing plays out:

• Americans, generally, seem more willing to spend big on Disney vacations than Europeans. At DLP, Premier Access isn’t widely used except on the busiest days. A lot of Europeans I know skip LL entirely at WDW, while over here it’s often discussed like it’s a must-buy. US tickets for the American parks are also significantly more expensive than tickets for DLP (like double at minimum).
• We also have way more flexibility with vacation days. In the Netherlands, 20 days is the legal minimum, and 30–35 is totally normal. That flexibility makes it much easier to avoid the expensive days on the calendar.
• And over here Disney has real competition for those 3-4 day trips. Europa-Park, Efteling, Phantasialand, Puy du Fou, these are major parks/resorts and significantly cheaper (value can be really good). That competition puts pressure on Disney not to push too far. In the US it seems to be mainly Universal that is on par in terms of value.

What dynamic pricing has actually done at DLP:

• The pricing calendar is clearer now, and it’s easier to compare weeks and months. Even in summer you’ll see some weeks noticeably cheaper than others.
• The cheapest days actually got cheaper: from about €56/$64 (incl tax) to €50/$57 (incl tax);
• On the flip side, there are more €100-ish days ($115), but they’re usually easy to avoid if you can shift your trip even a little.
• The best strategy has been booking early, since DLP tickets are fully refundable up to 3 days before. If the price drops, you cancel and rebook.
• We have seen some sudden spikes (even up to +60% within weeks), but those have been rare so far.
• Most of the time, once the calendar settles, prices are fairly predictable. In practice, the general pattern isn’t all that different from before dynamic pricing. Disney already knew how to optimize their old seasonal system, and this is basically a more flexible version of the same thing.

And honestly? I fully expect Disney to be more aggressive with this in the U.S.

From the outside, the American market looks much more accepting of dynamic/surge models in general. A good comparison is Broadway vs. London’s West End. On Broadway, heavy dynamic pricing is totally normal. In the West End, it exists but is noticeably softer.

Right now DLP is behaving much more like the West End, but I wouldn’t be surprised if WDW ends up more like Broadway.

Just thought it might help to share how the system has actually worked in practice here. Happy to clarify anything if it’s useful.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

European here (Netherlands), chiming in because I visit Disneyland Paris regularly and we’ve already lived through Disney rolling out dynamic pricing in 2024. I figured some experience from Paris might help the discussion here, especially since the U.S. and European markets behave pretty differently.

A few things about Europe that really change how dynamic pricing plays out:

• Americans, generally, seem more willing to spend big on Disney vacations than Europeans. At DLP, Premier Access isn’t widely used except on the busiest days. A lot of Europeans I know skip LL entirely at WDW, while over here it’s often discussed like it’s a must-buy. US tickets for the American parks are also significantly more expensive than tickets for DLP (like double at minimum).
• We also have way more flexibility with vacation days. In the Netherlands, 20 days is the legal minimum, and 30–35 is totally normal. That flexibility makes it much easier to avoid the expensive days on the calendar.
• And over here Disney has real competition for those 3-4 day trips. Europa-Park, Efteling, Phantasialand, Puy du Fou, these are major parks/resorts and significantly cheaper (value can be really good). That competition puts pressure on Disney not to push too far. In the US it seems to be mainly Universal that is on par in terms of value.

What dynamic pricing has actually done at DLP:

• The pricing calendar is clearer now, and it’s easier to compare weeks and months. Even in summer you’ll see some weeks noticeably cheaper than others.
• The cheapest days actually got cheaper: from about €56/$64 (incl tax) to €50/$57 (incl tax);
• On the flip side, there are more €100-ish days ($115), but they’re usually easy to avoid if you can shift your trip even a little.
• The best strategy has been booking early, since DLP tickets are fully refundable up to 3 days before. If the price drops, you cancel and rebook.
• We have seen some sudden spikes (even up to +60% within weeks), but those have been rare so far.
• Most of the time, once the calendar settles, prices are fairly predictable. In practice, the general pattern isn’t all that different from before dynamic pricing. Disney already knew how to optimize their old seasonal system, and this is basically a more flexible version of the same thing.

And honestly? I fully expect Disney to be more aggressive with this in the U.S.

From the outside, the American market looks much more accepting of dynamic/surge models in general. A good comparison is Broadway vs. London’s West End. On Broadway, heavy dynamic pricing is totally normal. In the West End, it exists but is noticeably softer.

Right now DLP is behaving much more like the West End, but I wouldn’t be surprised if WDW ends up more like Broadway.

Just thought it might help to share how the system has actually worked in practice here. Happy to clarify anything if it’s useful.

This is FANTASTIC…thank you

And all the details you share describe wdw not one bit…none of the user friendly practices in France have ever Matched what is offered in the swamp…where it’s more a troop of cut throat pirates…pun not really intended

 

[JD80]

I hope it does.

What a terrible thing to say to someone.

 

[DisneyCane]

They're already doing this with tickets, hotels, and LL. Food feels like this next one to hit, though I can't see how that might go over well. It's really difficult for families to budget when a hot dog is $7 in April and $12 in June.

Didn't one of the fast food chains float the idea of dynamic pricing?

For tickets it makes some sense. The fixed, date based pricing can lead to something like a sudden shift to cheap days where they end up with people who go on the cheap days in lieu of the expensive days. With airline style dynamic pricing that will be prevented because as more people purchase the cheap days the price will go up and keep the revenue consistent.

For food/beverage and merchandise, it would be insane. I can't even imagine buying a drink at 10:30 AM for a certain price and then being thirsty at 6 PM and paying more for the same thing.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Didn't one of the fast food chains float the idea of dynamic pricing?

For tickets it makes some sense. The fixed, date based pricing can lead to something like a sudden shift to cheap days where they end up with people who go on the cheap days in lieu of the expensive days. With airline style dynamic pricing that will be prevented because as more people purchase the cheap days the price will go up and keep the revenue consistent.

For food/beverage and merchandise, it would be insane. I can't even imagine buying a drink at 10:30 AM for a certain price and then being thirsty at 6 PM and paying more for the same thing.

It was Wendy’s. They got a ton of backlash for it and are now closing hundreds of stores

 

[monothingie]

What dynamic pricing has actually done at DLP:

• The pricing calendar is clearer now, and it’s easier to compare weeks and months. Even in summer you’ll see some weeks noticeably cheaper than others.
• The cheapest days actually got cheaper: from about €56/$64 (incl tax) to €50/$57 (incl tax);
• On the flip side, there are more €100-ish days ($115), but they’re usually easy to avoid if you can shift your trip even a little.
• The best strategy has been booking early, since DLP tickets are fully refundable up to 3 days before. If the price drops, you cancel and rebook.
• We have seen some sudden spikes (even up to +60% within weeks), but those have been rare so far.
• Most of the time, once the calendar settles, prices are fairly predictable. In practice, the general pattern isn’t all that different from before dynamic pricing. Disney already knew how to optimize their old seasonal system, and this is basically a more flexible version of the same thing.

Two key differences.

1. @lentesta has said the information he has gathered indicates that the system in incapable of "lowering" pricing. It only goes in one direction.
2. Tickets are non-refundable (with some exceptions) in the US.

The problem for Disney is the bad PR that this creates. With Disney already under the microscope of even the legacy media, reporting of massive price surges will go viral and further damage an already damaged brand. While Hugh "G" Johnston has already said the quiet part out loud about only caring on the top 20% income earners, even "rich" people don't like to get ripped off. We're sadly quickly heading there though.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Two key differences.

1. @lentesta has said the information he has gathered indicates that the system in incapable of "lowering" pricing. It only goes in one direction.
2. Tickets are non-refundable (with some exceptions) in the US.

The problem for Disney is the bad PR that this creates. With Disney already under the microscope of even the legacy media, reporting of massive price surges will go viral and further damage an already damaged brand. While Hugh "G" Johnston has already said the quiet part out loud about only caring on the top 20% income earners, even "rich" people don't like to get ripped off. We're sadly quickly heading there though.

Yeah I think the flaw all along in the dusty Sycophant commentary (and they embrace these tactics cause they want to feel special…but they’re not) about this “luxury” thing is that it ignores that NO ONE wants to get ripped off.

If you have money…you typically did that on purpose…and that mentality is never to lose in a deal

 

[monothingie]

It was Wendy’s. They got a ton of backlash for it and are now closing hundreds of stores

That's the real danger the Disney is exposing itself to. Bad word of mouth is the worst thing from a PR perspective because it's genuine. The low information dusters and shills will say ...attendance is not failing, its flat or just grew by little bit so it's fine...

Eventually you reach an upper limit to guest spending through price increases or new revenue sources (like dynamic pricing), and with Disney operating under such tight margins, it can quickly collapse on itself. This whole dynamic pricing idiocy is just another hole it in the foundation.

 

[monothingie]

Yeah I think the flaw all along in the dusty Sycophant commentary (and they embrace these tactics cause they want to feel special…but they’re not) about this “luxury” thing is that it ignores that NO ONE wants to get ripped off.

If you have money…you typically did that on purpose…and that mentality is never to lose in a deal

With leisure spending, people's guard are down because it's disposable income. It's when that spending does not result in a more "enjoyable" experience does that perception swings the other way. With LL or a Hard Ticket party, you at least get something out of the additional expense. With dynamic pricing, you get nothing solely because an algorithm predicted more demand, in a location that is no where near its true capacity but has intentionally limited capacity to drive up prices.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

With leisure spending, people's guard are down because it's disposable income. It's when that spending does not result in a more "enjoyable" experience does that perception swings the other way. With LL or a Hard Ticket party, you at least get something out of the additional expense. With dynamic pricing, you get nothing solely because an algorithm predicted more demand, in a location that is no where near its true capacity but has intentionally limited capacity to drive up prices.

They’re treating everything as a micro transaction…like a video game…

Whether they want to accept it or not…getting hit at every turn over the course of 5,6,7+ days drags the customer and creates that bad taste that cause them to be pulled out of the “euphoria” of travel spending.

Post travel regret to the swamp seems to be a frequent thing now…just based on conversations and perceptions