• The new WDWMAGIC iOS app is here!
    Stay up to date with the latest Disney news, photos, and discussions right from your iPhone. The app is free to download and gives you quick access to news articles, forums, photo galleries, park hours, weather and Lightning Lane pricing. Learn More
  • Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.

DAK “Zootopia” is being created for the Tree of Life theater

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
I think a lot of it is risk aversion. It is much less risky to give people things they already know and like. It's also much easier to market since people already know the property it is based on.
Yes, that could be it, although some themes are so universal that they seem equally familiar in a pop culture sense. In fact maybe more so - Pirates and Haunted Mansion are probably legendary as they are because the tap into those kinds of cultural archetypes.
 

AidenRodriguez731

Well-Known Member
Yes, that could be it, although some themes are so universal that they seem equally familiar in a pop culture sense. In fact maybe more so - Pirates and Haunted Mansion are probably legendary as they are because the tap into those kinds of cultural archetypes.
The problem is now with a growing market and a much higher ceiling for the newer guys in town, any big company who puts in the effort CAN make a pirate ride, a cowboy ride, or something.

Disney is the only company who can take you into Frozen, Encanto, Indiana Jones, Marvel (well kinda but you get my point)

They've always been at their strongest with their attention to detail and theming but more and more, there is a budget growing for other regional chains to do amazing dark rides too. An amazing dark ride doesn't necessarily "cut it" anymore.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The problem is now with a growing market and a much higher ceiling for the newer guys in town, any big company who puts in the effort CAN make a pirate ride, a cowboy ride, or something.

Disney is the only company who can take you into Frozen, Encanto, Indiana Jones, Marvel (well kinda but you get my point)

They've always been at their strongest with their attention to detail and theming but more and more, there is a budget growing for other regional chains to do amazing dark rides too. An amazing dark ride doesn't necessarily "cut it" anymore.
And which regional parks have anything close to a comparable budget and scale?
 

AidenRodriguez731

Well-Known Member
And which regional parks have anything close to a comparable budget and scale?
Compared to rides like Pirates? Dollywood easily and their associated parks. Alton Towers, Seaworld has certainly been pushing into bigger budget experiences. Even legoland has been trying to get more and more in the dark ride business. Not to mention the mergers are getting kinda crazy right now.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Compared to rides like Pirates? Dollywood easily and their associated parks. Alton Towers, Seaworld has certainly been pushing into bigger budget experiences. Even legoland has been trying to get more and more in the dark ride business. Not to mention the mergers are getting kinda crazy right now.
Not even close. Disney’s attractions have consistently been over $100 million for years. Dollywood just announced their most expensive attraction ever at $50 million.
 

Trauma

Well-Known Member
The problem is now with a growing market and a much higher ceiling for the newer guys in town, any big company who puts in the effort CAN make a pirate ride, a cowboy ride, or something.

Disney is the only company who can take you into Frozen, Encanto, Indiana Jones, Marvel (well kinda but you get my point)

They've always been at their strongest with their attention to detail and theming but more and more, there is a budget growing for other regional chains to do amazing dark rides too. An amazing dark ride doesn't necessarily "cut it" anymore.
I’m not trying to be mean because I say very stupid things every day, but this has to be one of your worst takes.

There is no regional park that can come close to what Disney does with dark rides.
 

JD80

Well-Known Member
I’m not trying to be mean because I say very stupid things every day, but this has to be one of your worst takes.

There is no regional park that can come close to what Disney does with dark rides.

I don't think he was referring to regional parks.
 

AidenRodriguez731

Well-Known Member
I’m not trying to be mean because I say very stupid things every day, but this has to be one of your worst takes.

There is no regional park that can come close to what Disney does with dark rides.
I would like to reclarify and recontextualize my comment a little bit. I do not genuinely think that there is currently a regional or even another chain that can do what Disney does in dark rides as of now with the only company that can come close being Universal. My point was more based on those original rides, I definitely think some of these chains are getting close to atleast pirates/haunted mansion levels of attractions.

I mean go look at top lists for dark rides, back when these rides were built if people made a list like those, it would be essentially NOTHING but Disney. Disney basically pioneered the way to any highly immersive dark rides but now you have a lot of REALLY impressive attractions coming from around the world especially, which again wasn't really a factor when Disney opened up their older attractions. World-wide travel was not really a thing for a lot of American families at the time and thats why areas like Adventureland were so mysterious and well-loved. Now, these areas are much less 'foreign"
 

DrStarlander

Well-Known Member
Yes Disney spends a lot of money on many new attractions, but just like bigger budgets don't necessarily make for better movies, same is true in the parks. Smuggler's Run probably cost more than non-Disney or Universal park would spend on an attraction, but there's probably dozens of non-Disney or Universal attractions that are much better. Money only gets you so far, and sometimes I think it takes them in the wrong direction.

My trip to Europa Park (owned by Mack, no mega-corp) was mind blowing for me as to what can be done in a theme park when designers lean on creativity instead of cash and flash.
 
Last edited:

Trauma

Well-Known Member
I think I chose the wrong wording, I didn't mean like a Six Flags. I meant more like Dollywood, Alton Towers, Europa Park, and the main competitors in Florida like Universal/Sea World/etc
Out of all the parks you just named I would say only Universal tries to build rides at the same scale as Disney.

That’s where all this uproar comes in when we see attractions being built that just seem to fall short.

Disney set the standard of being above and beyond the best AND they charge accordingly.

The “oh wow” moments of an attraction shouldn’t be the fact that it’s an IP.

I can go on forever about moments in Disney rides that are special but let’s take a very small one in ITTBAB.

When the show is over and the bugs leave before you do and you hear people let out a little scream and everyone is laughing.

That’s unique, that’s Disney Magic.

Yes Bug isn’t the greatest thing of all time but it still contained a few of those moments that reminded you that your at Disney.

I don’t mind if they put IP into the ride but it better have more than that. I needs those moments that remind me that I’m somewhere special.

I don’t know if this is a weird story to tell but it happened.

When my wife got off FoP for the first time she cried. It connected with her that deeply.

She could care less about Avatar, she doesn’t even like the movie. It wasn’t the Avatar IP that elicited reaction, it was the experience that Disney had created.

The rides should be special.

Disney set the standard and they should always strive to live up to or exceed it.
 

AidenRodriguez731

Well-Known Member
Out of all the parks you just named I would say only Universal tries to build rides at the same scale as Disney.

That’s where all this uproar comes in when we see attractions being built that just seem to fall short.

Disney set the standard of being above and beyond the best AND they charge accordingly.

The “oh wow” moments of an attraction shouldn’t be the fact that it’s an IP.

I can go on forever about moments in Disney rides that are special but let’s take a very small one in ITTBAB.

When the show is over and the bugs leave before you do and you hear people let out a little scream and everyone is laughing.

That’s unique, that’s Disney Magic.

Yes Bug isn’t the greatest thing of all time but it still contained a few of those moments that reminded you that your at Disney.

I don’t mind if they put IP into the ride but it better have more than that. I needs those moments that remind me that I’m somewhere special.

I don’t know if this is a weird story to tell but it happened.

When my wife got off FoP for the first time she cried. It connected with her that deeply.

She could care less about Avatar, she doesn’t even like the movie. It wasn’t the Avatar IP that elicited reaction, it was the experience that Disney had created.

The rides should be special.

Disney set the standard and they should always strive to live up to or exceed it.
I feel like your FOP point just contradicted the overall point you’re making. Something being IP or not doesn’t fundamentally change the value of the attraction or the experience it gives you. It simply convinces more people to try it out. That’s the reality of the situation. Disney is I believe still the largest media brand by sheer IPs. They’re in a way playing to their strengths, their movies currently are FAR more popular/relevant today than Universal; their next major competitors. That’s why half of the properties of Universals new parks are ones they don’t even own. It’s why their parks are filled to the brim with stuff they don’t own and contracts that might be expiring/have to be followed. Disney knows they don’t have to deal with any of that
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
The problem is now with a growing market and a much higher ceiling for the newer guys in town, any big company who puts in the effort CAN make a pirate ride, a cowboy ride, or something.

Disney is the only company who can take you into Frozen, Encanto, Indiana Jones, Marvel (well kinda but you get my point)

They've always been at their strongest with their attention to detail and theming but more and more, there is a budget growing for other regional chains to do amazing dark rides too. An amazing dark ride doesn't necessarily "cut it" anymore.

Other than Frozen, traditional IP based dark rides built after the parks were established haven't really taken off though (when I say traditional I'm excluding trackless rides, which have more of a thrill / novelty element). Winnie the Pooh might be mid-level popular due to Pooh fans but I don't think it rivals something like Haunted Mansion. Little Mermaid, Nemo, Figment - all are reliably low wait time rides.

I can't really compare that to anything because the only non-IP dark rides were built long ago. So maybe Pirates, Mansion, and Jungle Cruise (ok it's not 'dark', but same idea) are popular because they're iconic, or maybe it's the more universal themes, I don't know. I do wonder if part of the issue is that a topic like 'pirates' is wide open, whereas IP-driven dark rides are highly constrained by movies that may or may not translate to a great ride experience. For example, if Little Mermaid or Nemo had just been based on the theme of 'oceans', imagine how creative and elaborate those scenes could have been. Literally anything in the oceans to choose from. Instead they are based on movies, meaning we have to see a given sequence of characters who may or may not make for a particularly interesting ride experience.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Out of all the parks you just named I would say only Universal tries to build rides at the same scale as Disney.

That’s where all this uproar comes in when we see attractions being built that just seem to fall short.

Disney set the standard of being above and beyond the best AND they charge accordingly.

The “oh wow” moments of an attraction shouldn’t be the fact that it’s an IP.

I can go on forever about moments in Disney rides that are special but let’s take a very small one in ITTBAB.

When the show is over and the bugs leave before you do and you hear people let out a little scream and everyone is laughing.

That’s unique, that’s Disney Magic.

Yes Bug isn’t the greatest thing of all time but it still contained a few of those moments that reminded you that your at Disney.

I don’t mind if they put IP into the ride but it better have more than that. I needs those moments that remind me that I’m somewhere special.

I don’t know if this is a weird story to tell but it happened.

When my wife got off FoP for the first time she cried. It connected with her that deeply.

She could care less about Avatar, she doesn’t even like the movie. It wasn’t the Avatar IP that elicited reaction, it was the experience that Disney had created.

The rides should be special.

Disney set the standard and they should always strive to live up to or exceed it.
I think FoP is one of the best if not the best attraction at WDW and I am not a super fan of the movies.

I have not been on Guardians or the Galaxy's Edge attractions yet so my opinion may change.
 

Trauma

Well-Known Member
I feel like your FOP point just contradicted the overall point you’re making. Something being IP or not doesn’t fundamentally change the value of the attraction or the experience it gives you. It simply convinces more people to try it out. That’s the reality of the situation. Disney is I believe still the largest media brand by sheer IPs. They’re in a way playing to their strengths, their movies currently are FAR more popular/relevant today than Universal; their next major competitors. That’s why half of the properties of Universals new parks are ones they don’t even own. It’s why their parks are filled to the brim with stuff they don’t own and contracts that might be expiring/have to be followed. Disney knows they don’t have to deal with any of that
So can we say that Soarin is a precursor to FoP?

I think that’s fair.

Is what your saying if they rethemed Soarin with an IP that the ride would draw bigger crowds ?
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Other than Frozen, traditional IP based dark rides built after the parks were established haven't really taken off though (when I say traditional I'm excluding trackless rides, which have more of a thrill / novelty element). Winnie the Pooh might be mid-level popular due to Pooh fans but I don't think it rivals something like Haunted Mansion. Little Mermaid, Nemo, Figment - all are reliably low wait time rides.
The Little Mermaid is a successful attraction

Ones like Monsters and Nemo are hindered by being re-themes.

The dark ride portion of RSR is a knockout

Frozen is hugely popular

I'd challenge you to actually name ones that WEREN'T successful.. because just going from memory here I can't think of any that were not that didn't have some major cripple factor like Nemo did.

Wait time in a vacuum is a horrible metric - as throughput of many of these designs is very high.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom