MK Piston Peak and Villains Land Construction Thread

[Fox&Hound]

There’s no way it will be Luigi’s flying tires - that ride system doesn’t work.

Maters junkyard would be the most logical.

That ride is so cute and charming but they have the same ride in DHS, but I guess they have Dumbo and Aladdin in the same park so…

 

[tommyhawkins]

There’s no way it will be Luigi’s flying tires - that ride system doesn’t work.

Maters junkyard would be the most logical.

Does it matter? same footprint

I still fail to see how they can fit all of this widely-ranging terrain in the bottom basin of the RoA. It's not THAT large of a space.

Im not sure if people are building this up in their minds or not.
The track length Ive measured is about 2700 ft which is similar to BTM. They are in-filling several metres depth to raise it the dock height and adding a fairly large hill, can easily get 30+feet of elevation difference


I wrote about the key takeaway from Cars isnt whats built within that but the sum of what we can get by the end of everything, I hope people dont build expectations up too high thanks to the disney hype train for this project - its going to be fun but probably a D-ticket ticket in the mind of most people on these forums after its been ridden

Beyond Big Thunder:

What Disney’s Expansion Really Means

tommythemed.substack.com

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Does it matter? same footprint

you said it would likely be the tire attraction - why did you say that if it doesn’t matter?

 

[PizzaPlanet]

I assume he meant Luigi’s Rollickin Roadsters which replaced the Flying Tires ride. It’s a trackless ride where the cars dance to music!

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I assume he meant Luigi’s Rollickin Roadsters which replaced the Flying Tires ride. It’s a trackless ride where the cars dance to music!

I’m aware - I love those dancing cars.
*beep beep beep*

 

[Haymarket2008]

The first concept art is architectural not true concept in the literal sense - those who are familiar with my work know that I have been saying ad nauseum that certain pieces of artwork disney put out aren't "oh its just concept - it wont look like this" types of work that many proclaim - these artworks are architecturally sound with frames of reference that when i use my methods of reverse engineering layouts are scarily accurate - recently I had a building layout for Monsters Inc that was extremely accurate when we got the permits and site work marked out. Im not saying these works don't have creative "flourishes" designed to make them look a little more sexy or disguise a show building they dont want you to know is there (monsters only drew the frontage and no gravity building) or that things will be cut - but generally they are remarkably consistent to final product and drawn from plans not ideas . my point is every time they release these specific works I pay attention. What I don't pay attention to is a vector drawn cartoon fun map - i personally believe the first work was a bit too accurate and hid these artificial rivers (i missed them on the first pass!) so was too boring and they needed to show the final product will be closer to what was there before because of people kicking up a fuss about losing rivers. Also when I cross reference the layout I transcribed with the other artwork they dropped its consistent with features.

I hope you're right, but I don't see any water in front of the Haunted Mansion in any of the available concept art.

 

[BrianLo]

I doubt the B/C ticket is a direct clone, but I also doubt the ride system is unique.

Rollicking Roadsters is cute and a Wilderness take on that would be fine.

 

[JoeCamel]

I'm so disappointed in today's Disney, the old Disney would have those excavators wrapped in Cars livery and put horns on them to beep at each other......

 

[BrianLo]

I want to swing back around to something that I am not sure has gotten enough discussion. I know this is the water permit - but the weird boundary of this line looks too much like a possible railroad realignment to me. I'm not sure why if they are going to redesign this whole area they would be dead set on the existing boundaries.

Even just some of the messaging out of the company this would settle this as actually being Magic Kingdom's largest expansion with the few extra acres in the Villains land fold. Also highlighted is the pond to show they've mostly just left a bermy strip in that north section and really only the western portion of the laydown yard is left open for future expansion.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I want to swing back around to something that I am not sure has gotten enough discussion. I know this is the water permit - but the weird boundary of this line looks too much like a possible railroad realignment to me. I'm not sure why if they are going to redesign this whole area they would be dead set on the existing boundaries.

Even just some of the messaging out of the company this would settle this as actually being Magic Kingdom's largest expansion with the few extra acres in the Villains land fold. Also highlighted is the pond to show they've mostly just left a bermy strip in that north section and really only the western portion of the laydown yard is left open for future expansion.

View attachment 890935

There are elevation lines in other drawings that show the grading, and they do not follow those zone boundaries. Most of the area you’ve drawn the red line is captured on sheet EC-118. This drawing shows the ditch along the existing railroad berm that was also in the drawings for the first permit. The north “bermy strip” is showing as sloping down toward the canal, so not a berm. Nothing in the water management drawings show or even really hint at expanding beyond the railroad.

 

[BrianLo]

There are elevation lines in other drawings that show the grading, and they do not follow those zone boundaries. Most of the area you’ve drawn the red line is captured on sheet EC-118. This drawing shows the ditch along the existing railroad berm that was also in the drawings for the first permit. The north “bermy strip” is showing as sloping down toward the canal, so not a berm. Nothing in the water management drawings show or even really hint at expanding beyond the railroad.

Thanks, the weird zone boundary just looked odd to me. So other images more conclusively do not show any rererouting?

 

[Coaster Lover]

Rollicking Roadsters is cute and a Wilderness take on that would be fine.

I'l dont get to DCA enough to know... how does Rollicking Roadsters do in the rain? I mean, if it's not great, I guess they could always cover it like they did with Alien Swirling Saucers, but that ride seems like it would be odd to be covered...

Would be neat to see that ride with a bunch of country line dancing/square dancing tyoe songs...

 

[dmc493]

how does Rollicking Roadsters do in the rain

Pretty sure it closes every time it rains. The magic of California is that it rarely rains... and when it does, it's a sprinkle compared to a Florida downpour

 

[tommyhawkins]

Thanks, the weird zone boundary just looked odd to me. So other images more conclusively do not show any rererouting?

It's not fool proof from Water Permits and old stuff can show up on permits (they still drew HRRR footings on the permits of P830 despite it being demolished in the new plan for example), but these are new work permits, and a change would be a consideration that probably needs to be drawn in. So i agree its highly likely they have stuck to original layout.

There's a few factors about why I went with a layout for Villains that contains it inside 10-11 acres MK side of the tracks, and didnt re-route the track like even i had suggested a few years back.

Firstly, the current bridge is aligned in a certain way that it cant take a dramatic left turn into the beyond big thunder expansion pad like was drawn above, realistically the wider berth it can take would be subtle and only gain about half an acre of additional space. Even if at great expense they reconfigured the existing bridge, and it did take an unrealistic sweeping route - you gain about an acre. What benefit is this? they have ~11 acres contained with the plot for villains land, that's more than enough right?

Secondly, from my understanding of train operations they work very similar to Rollercoaster block sections when you have multiple trains on a closed loop - so end up choreographing a dance where every train pretty much has to leave at the same time etc and keep spacing between them. So if you lengthened a certain section of track then they would all be waiting for a train to clear that section of track before everyone else can move. that is going to reduce throughput and capacity for the railroad as now the dispatches of trains take longer - If it takes 2mins longer to dispatch a train that's still nearly 400 people per hour they lose. Again, what are the benefits?

It wouldn't upload the image i have, but in the mock up i made in that article , theres room for a major coaster, major dark ride and D-Ticket plus F&B/retail in the room they have, i just dont see why they need to re route the train when they can keep the pad for another land further down the road:

Cars & Villains

The Next Chapter of Magic Kingdom Expansion

tommythemed.substack.com

 

[jah4955]

It's not fool proof from Water Permits and old stuff can show up on permits (they still drew HRRR footings on the permits of P830 despite it being demolished in the new plan for example), but these are new work permits, and a change would be a consideration that probably needs to be drawn in. So i agree its highly likely they have stuck to original layout.

There's a few factors about why I went with a layout for Villains that contains it inside 10-11 acres MK side of the tracks, and didnt re-route the track like even i had suggested a few years back.

Firstly, the current bridge is aligned in a certain way that it cant take a dramatic left turn into the beyond big thunder expansion pad like was drawn above, realistically the wider berth it can take would be subtle and only gain about half an acre of additional space. Even if at great expense they reconfigured the existing bridge, and it did take an unrealistic sweeping route - you gain about an acre. What benefit is this? they have ~11 acres contained with the plot for villains land, that's more than enough right?

Secondly, from my understanding of train operations they work very similar to Rollercoaster block sections when you have multiple trains on a closed loop - so end up choreographing a dance where every train pretty much has to leave at the same time etc and keep spacing between them. So if you lengthened a certain section of track then they would all be waiting for a train to clear that section of track before everyone else can move. that is going to reduce throughput and capacity for the railroad as now the dispatches of trains take longer - If it takes 2mins longer to dispatch a train that's still nearly 400 people per hour they lose. Again, what are the benefits?

It wouldn't upload the image i have, but in the mock up i made in that article , theres room for a major coaster, major dark ride and D-Ticket plus F&B/retail in the room they have, i just dont see why they need to re route the train when they can keep the pad for another land further down the road:

Cars & Villains

The Next Chapter of Magic Kingdom Expansion

tommythemed.substack.com

Because of the knowledge of many and the lack of knowledge of myself...may I ask...: What about these possibilities regarding "Villains" (realizing another land outside the berm but adjacent to Villains has already arisen as a hypothetical):

• (like our Tron) Why can't Coaster (or pathways to) goes over the railroad tracks to outside the "berm"?: or
• (as with several DL rides, and our Pirates and Space Mountain) why can't entrance to an E ticket (whatever it ends up being) be inside the berm, go "underground" somehow and enter the main part of the attraction outside the berm?

I apologize if this has already been asked/answered, and I realize the potential for a "great job" while keeping things "inside,"

 

[tommyhawkins]

Because of the knowledge of many and the lack of knowledge of myself...may I ask...: What about these possibilities regarding "Villains" (realizing another land outside the berm but adjacent to Villains has already arisen as a hypothetical):

• (like our Tron) Why can't Coaster (or pathways to) goes over the railroad tracks to outside the "berm"?: or

The tunnel at Tron caused a huge headache for many reasons in regards to the Train, due to the fact they are real steam and the considerations you need to have for fire. It's not a binary choice - ultimately when the will is there everything is a yes but why put yourself through that if there's an easier, cheaper solution?
I personally believe, with the raised ground of MK we would just see foot tunnels under the rail road at similar depths to utilidors. It would be interesting to see if during the course of this work, permits will drop for tunnel(s) under the railroad to futureproof the expansion and access. it would prevent another RR closure.

• (as with several DL rides, and our Pirates and Space Mountain) why can't entrance to an E ticket (whatever it ends up being) be inside the berm, go "underground" somehow and enter the main part of the attraction outside the berm?

Again there's no reason not to, but ultimately two 11 acre plots can either be combined or their own separate thing, im not sure what the reason would be to connect them other than people moving to and fro

I apologize if this has already been asked/answered, and I realize the potential for a "great job" while keeping things "inside,"

 

[lazyboy97o]

Thanks, the weird zone boundary just looked odd to me. So other images more conclusively do not show any rererouting?

As of now, the drawings don’t show a rerouting. I also don’t think something like an elevated trestle is likely given the elevations involved. There’s also the zoning issue which I believe applies to this area, where Disney affirmed they were not seeking commercial mixed use zoning when the District assumed they had erred in not asking for that designation.

Because of the knowledge of many and the lack of knowledge of myself...may I ask...: What about these possibilities regarding "Villains" (realizing another land outside the berm but adjacent to Villains has already arisen as a hypothetical):

• (like our Tron) Why can't Coaster (or pathways to) goes over the railroad tracks to outside the "berm"?: or
• (as with several DL rides, and our Pirates and Space Mountain) why can't entrance to an E ticket (whatever it ends up being) be inside the berm, go "underground" somehow and enter the main part of the attraction outside the berm?

I apologize if this has already been asked/answered, and I realize the potential for a "great job" while keeping things "inside,"

These drawings are water management drawings, so they wouldn’t necessarily reveal such strategies of moving people beyond the railroad tracks. Especially since Disney opted to just ask for the whole area to be considered an impervious surface.

I personally believe, with the raised ground of MK we would just see foot tunnels under the rail road at similar depths to utilidors. It would be interesting to see if during the course of this work, permits will drop for tunnel(s) under the railroad to futureproof the expansion and access. it would prevent another RR closure.

The Magic Kingdom is not built at a common level nor is the railroad on a consistent berm. The railroad right of way descends in this area. The River is being filled to +98.75’ while the railroad goes from +105’ at the bridge down to +96’ at the end of the curve. Then there is the new ditch along the railroad which is planned to go down to +93.25’. The areas of the park that are above the utilidors are up around +105’ where the railroad starts. Going under the railroad as things are currently designed would involve excavating and going down to around +80’, not just cutting through a railroad berm.

 

[tommyhawkins]

As of now, the drawings don’t show a rerouting. I also don’t think something like an elevated trestle is likely given the elevations involved. There’s also the zoning issue which I believe applies to this area, where Disney affirmed they were not seeking commercial mixed use zoning when the District assumed they had erred in not asking for that designation.

These drawings are water management drawings, so they wouldn’t necessarily reveal such strategies of moving people beyond the railroad tracks. Especially since Disney opted to just ask for the whole area to be considered an impervious surface.

The Magic Kingdom is not built at a common level nor is the railroad on a consistent berm. The railroad right of way descends in this area. The River is being filled to +98.75’ while the railroad goes from +105’ at the bridge down to +96’ at the end of the curve. Then there is the new ditch along the railroad which is planned to go down to +93.25’. The areas of the park that are above the utilidors are up around +105’ where the railroad starts. Going under the railroad as things are currently designed would involve excavating and going down to around +80’, not just cutting through a railroad berm.

i made no mention of a berm, +24m is far from unprecedented - the tunnel at contemporary is 5 metres lower than that

 

[MisterPenguin]

Simple to cross: You build a Villains station. Then, to cross to the other side of the berm, you get into the Train from the right at the Frontierland station, and then get off to the left at the Villains Land station!!!

 

[jah4955]

i made no mention of a berm, +24m is far from unprecedented - the tunnel at contemporary is 5 metres lower than that

Thank you for the extra perspectives @tommyhawkins & @lazyboy97o I also just had a chance to read the "Cars and Villains" article