• The new WDWMAGIC iOS app is here!
    Stay up to date with the latest Disney news, photos, and discussions right from your iPhone. The app is free to download and gives you quick access to news articles, forums, photo galleries, park hours, weather and Lightning Lane pricing. Learn More
  • Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.

WOL Demo coming ..

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
I dunno.. do you frame it as 'atmosphere' and 'character'? Is it the variety that makes it, or the detail?

Both

I'm of the thought that WS basically got adopted and people found their own happiness with the space. I mean, if you've never been to WS before, does it hit as hard as those people who have spent the last 15yrs with it?

I'd say yes, what other theme park or place in the USA compares? I'll elaborate below...

I feel like it's become more of the adult hangout... where people get to be entertained with food and drink choices, but for some reason like the floating openness of it.. vs a street of inside venues.

And that's important because...

I struggle to capture what I think makes it work through today.. because for me individually I think all it's uniqueness was outgrown and surpassed in the 90s.

But how and where? WS shares one other very important trait with MSUSA that distinguishes it from every other imitation international shopping complex

It's all under one company's control and master planned and expanded by the original designer/operator

It's not a series of brands and companies competing for each other's dollars. Yes, there are stores and merchandise sourced from various vendors, but the clashing, competing noise, scale, lighting, architecture of your typical mall is absent. You don't have spaces altered or removed with no consideration for their surroundings [or at least Disney isn't supposed to do that, results vary, but that's another topic for discussion], you don't have signs or vendors slapped wherever, you don't have confined spaces that are meant to trap or shield your vision from the outside. WS is open and that openness is used to guide visitors and allow breathing room between the exhibits, which themselves are built as layered courtyards to gradually adjust guests to each setting. The scale and coloring of the buildings are used to reinforce that "architecture of reassurance" and that there are outdoor, tree lined streets without cars adds to the atmosphere

Even other malls with faux facades and trolleys don't have the visual variety or understanding of space that WS has. And they still are a series of competing stores that are interchangeable and unrelated to their surroundings. The decor is superficial, and however watered down the experience may be today, there is still a clear understanding of why food or entertainment is specific to one WS pavilion and not found elsewhere in the land

You have the Venetian in Vegas which is much larger than Italy at WS, but also lacks the spatial organization, scale or open sense of organization that coexists harmoniously with the other pavilions. It's another huge building on the Strip that competes with other huge buildings on an allegedly pedestrian street that's also a giant traffic jam of cars.

Other theme parks try and do the same thing, but don't dedicate or use their space as effectively, to say nothing of the quality of their buildings or finishings. There are many impressive recreations of other country's building styles, but is there a place that has 11 of them neatly packaged around a lake as successfully? With staff actually from those countries?

You could argue the buildings and pavilions should be bigger and more impressive by today's standards, but would that look as charming? Isn't the scale of Disneyland often cited as part of its appeal, despite there being bigger Disneylands?

It's a combination of tangible and intangible things that make WS as successful as it is, even 40+ years later

I don't personally linger in WS any.. I love AA, but walk past most the rest of WS.

I personally no longer see the value of paying what Disney charges to visit EPCOT just to walk around WS, but that doesn't mean I no longer understand its appeal
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
But how and where? WS shares one other very important trait with MSUSA that distinguishes it from every other imitation international shopping complex
Disney's integration of all these global sites was cool - until international tastes flourished everywhere.. and greater travel and the internet devalued the unique settings. Disney service was a leader.. until it wasn't. Meeting internationals was more special - until that became much more commonplace due to broader travel, immigration, wider use of student visas, etc.

Vegas is the easy comparison.. service exceeded Disney, they built the environments, they had the stellar food and drink, they had the variety, etc.

After skipping most of WDW around the 98-2004 millenium era... I felt that way pretty much about all of WDW when I started going back around 2006. The lone exception was the water parks. Everywhere else I felt "other places have caught up" on so many angles Disney had as leaders before. In that period I had done a lot of traveling for work, lots of time in Vegas, a lot more international travel.. and when I came back to WDW, it really felt a lot smaller or fake compare to what it felt like 10-15yrs prior. My personal experience... I mean for instance I've spent tons and tons and tons of time in Norway, and when I returned to WS... it just felt like such a bad representation of what I had come to love about Norway and the people. WS had become a bit of a letdown to me.

I know you can say about concentration in one place vs multiple venues, etc.. but that feels more like an academic thing vs 'what matters to the customer'. If it's one roof, or somewhere you went the next day, doesn't matter a ton I think.. you can't eat 3 dinners in the same night :)

You could argue the buildings and pavilions should be bigger and more impressive by today's standards, but would that look as charming? Isn't the scale of Disneyland often cited as part of its appeal, despite there being bigger Disneylands?
Depends... I found the experience at Paris (Vegas) and their tower made Disney's antenna on a roof feel basic. What Disney did in the late 70s felt amazing to what they came up with.. but in the 2000s it felt lower grade compared to what others had done as follow ups.

I personally no longer see the value of paying what Disney charges to visit EPCOT just to walk around WS, but that doesn't mean I no longer understand its appeal
I specifically said "I struggle to capture" because I find it difficult to to concisely package up what still 'works' for WS.

Just so many elements I struggle to line up with WS. So much of Disney's customer base is repeat visitors.. WS is great for wandering.. but after you've done it all, do you still get the same value on repeat? The dining is a shadow of its former self.. and the variety is easily gotten in most other places. The nightly fireworks, the scale of the show.. all used to be destinations of their own.. now.. not as special, etc. The things like the live entertainment and demonstrations are some of the elements I thought Disney did that were still very impressive.. until they started gutting that too.

Dunno.. just talking aloud... I welcome change to WS. I think the era of it serving as ambassadors of their country is long dead and I welcome things that are more than trying to carry the place with all its downscaled fake facades.

If things evolved over time to theming like how BG Williamsburg has.. where its 'the old country' or whatever, and not so much about literally the true culture.. I probably would be ok with it.
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
I do think something else that I like about Ratatouille is that they really expanded the France pavilion in the process, so it didn't just feel like a side street.

It would be nice to do that for the other pavilions and add more eateries as long as they're good quality.

But anyway, this thread is about WOL 😅
 

KDM31091

Well-Known Member
It is extremely rare for Disney to spend time, money and resources to demolish something without a plan to replace it, not saying it won't happen, but just doesn't seem to be what they do historically.
You're right. I just think if they were planning some big replacement pavilion they would have teased it previously. Not to mention many other projects around the parks already. Of course, unlike literally every other project going on, this one affects nothing that is currently operating so I wouldn't mind if they were working on a replacement.
 

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
You're right. I just think if they were planning some big replacement pavilion they would have teased it previously. Not to mention many other projects around the parks already. Of course, unlike literally every other project going on, this one affects nothing that is currently operating so I wouldn't mind if they were working on a replacement.
If the demo happens soon, it might simply be that they have a crew for demo available now (or after one of the current demos finishes), so they're going to take care of it now and build the replacement later.
 

jah4955

Well-Known Member
Sure, posters on here may want an exact replica of Horizons (or to just generally make it 1982 again), but unrealistic suggestions turns threads into nostalgia-fueled, "back in my day" gripe sessions. Is that really a worthwhile dialogue?
The reason I "wax nostalgic" is not because I want parts of the distant-past which no longer exist duplicated exactly as it was (I don't: there's a litany of sound reasons for that), but because I want Disney's highest standards of that time duplicated. Based on the videos I've seen, TT3.0 arguably proves that this could be possible.
 
Last edited:

jah4955

Well-Known Member
Dunno.. just talking aloud... I welcome change to WS. I think the era of it serving as ambassadors of their country is long dead and I welcome things that are more than trying to carry the place with all its downscaled fake facades.
To offer a snapshot-summary of the discussion between you and @Animaniac93-98 ?: It's much more than "facades" but this intangible reassurance that occurs from a combination of carefully coordinated elements...including the painstaking craftsmanship that went into creating the pavilions...in 10 different ways (not counting USA, it's its own animal).

In spite of the various forms of IP invasion, WS still has this (to date) un-repeated charm that was not necessarily meant to be found in the respective countries represented. I was relieved Disney cancelled WESTCOT; ours will forever remain the only one of its kind. But I don't think WS was ever meant to be a substitute for visiting the countries...but to give you whet your appetite into possibly wanting to experience the real thing.

But on a practical note: With few exceptions (the wealthy, those who dedicate themselves to sailing/backpacking the world, etc.) no one's going to visit all 10 countries (nm the other 180-something nations of the world). And based on videos and articles I've read (by chance, through this morning!) overtourism is not only creating animosity with many locals, but making it virtually impossible to enjoy travelling all that much (making the biggest crowds of WDW seem light/easy by comparison)....NM all the hassle nowadays with flying, jetlag, safety, sanitation, etc...the motivation to travel abroad must exceed the "cost" of all of these non-financial reasons....

I've been to Europe 6 times (+ 3 non-European countries). I've been to WS dozens of times. Two sets of very unique experiences in spite of the parallels.
 
Last edited:

jah4955

Well-Known Member
View attachment 889532
I thought this IP worked pretty good.
This was a great example of how IP could be done right.:
  1. Within pavilion on Life/Health
  2. Within pavilion that screamed 1980's motif
  3. "Sport Goofy" was in peak popularity during the 1980s (it was really big imo)
  4. Super majority of Goofy cartoon catalogue is on either "life/health" or sports (an organic result of Colvig leaving Disney shortly before Goofy series began)
  5. (most importantly imo) attraction was one, small, easily replaceable attraction smoothly incorporated among many others.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
WoL sucked. Even Body Wars which was cool when brand new, aged horribly and suffered from being the 3rd best motion sim in town. The pavilion stuff wasn't any better than what I had at my local science museums. It was like the worst parts of Living with the Land and communicore munged together. Mostly boring, preachy, and hideously 80s decor.

Play never felt like it was going to amount to much... just a half-xxx attempt at refreshing stuff. Maybe they are just demo'ing part of the place that is problematic?

It feels really weird to go as far as they did to reuse portions of UoE and to demo WoL entirely.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
WoL sucked. Even Body Wars which was cool when brand new, aged horribly and suffered from being the 3rd best motion sim in town. The pavilion stuff wasn't any better than what I had at my local science museums. It was like the worst parts of Living with the Land and communicore munged together. Mostly boring, preachy, and hideously 80s decor.

Play never felt like it was going to amount to much... just a half-xxx attempt at refreshing stuff. Maybe they are just demo'ing part of the place that is problematic?

It feels really weird to go as far as they did to reuse portions of UoE and to demo WoL entirely.
I thought the exercise bikes were funny. Just what people need when it’s 120 degrees outside!
 

jah4955

Well-Known Member
The exercise bikes are actually my most vivid memory of Wonders of Life -- as a kid I liked the video that made it seem like you were riding through Disneyland (I think there were a couple of other options too) and went faster if you pedaled faster.
which is why I always pedalled slowwwwww
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
If anything gives me hope them tearing down WOL they expand the space pavilion and put a new ride back there while keeping the front of the building
yeah but they won't...the Space pavilion is finished in their eyes...there is now expanded part 2 ...it is just a one-off simulator with a gift shop and restaurant. They would probably tear down WOL and then just leave the vacant property sit for a decade... If there were plans for something amazing coming, I think it would have been teased already....and with everything else going on right now across the parks, I would not expect any thing else to be coming along for the next 5-10 years unless they are smaller projects....
 

KDM31091

Well-Known Member
yeah but they won't...the Space pavilion is finished in their eyes...there is now expanded part 2 ...it is just a one-off simulator with a gift shop and restaurant. They would probably tear down WOL and then just leave the vacant property sit for a decade... If there were plans for something amazing coming, I think it would have been teased already....and with everything else going on right now across the parks, I would not expect any thing else to be coming along for the next 5-10 years unless they are smaller projects....
Yeah this exactly. Even though building something to replace WOL wouldn't require closing anything that is operating so it wouldn't be a big deal in that sense, I don't think it's happening right now. They have a lot underway already. They definitely would have teased it if it were coming anytime "soon" (5 years ish).

I'm surprised they would opt for demo rather than just completing the Play project that is supposedly at least halfway done, but who knows. I guess they no longer rent out the old corporate lounge area for events? Because obviously if demo'd that would be gone.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom