Hmmm...wonder if this story is totally factual or not? if it is, must be a wonderful time to visit Disney World with shorter wait times right now!

[Chef Mickey]

Yes.... Disneys board is no different than many other Corporate boards. Some are on the board because they really care about the operations they oversee, others are campaigned to be placed there only to be a support entity that votes the way the chairman wants it to go, others are around the table because of the status they hold by being a member of the xyz corporation and it improves their social/ professional status among their peers. Boards can influence good or bad which has been shown in the past by how many corporations have failed or been on the brink of failure.
Iger has had his way for far too long which shows by how Disney had under progressed over the last few ( actually more) years of his tenure.

I frankly don’t see how Iger isn't gone.

 

[JIMINYCR]

I frankly don’t see how Iger isn't gone.

A combination of his influence and power is far and deep, holding him in place and they haven't made a real determined effort to search outside for a replacement in earnest. Like some other corporations that have kept their CEO's who should have been dropped for massive blunders that have been costly, they are fearful of making the right decision. Even though they continue bleeding out.

 

[Calmdownnow]

I've also been concerned for a while because Disney's primary reason for increased revenue in parks (per their own financial filing mind you) has been increased prices.

Genuine question: if increased revenue reflects increased prices, does greatly increased tariffs on imported t-shirts, souvenir merchandise etc, automatically raise revenue (without raising profit, unless % margins are also increased when goods are imported and sold)? If so. revenue isn't a good measure of trading health. Or am I not reading this correctly?

 

[Chef Mickey]

A combination of his influence and power is far and deep, holding him in place and they haven't made a real determined effort to search outside for a replacement in earnest. Like some other corporations that have kept their CEO's who should have been dropped for massive blunders that have been costly, they are fearful of making the right decision. Even though they continue bleeding out.

What is more motivating than watching other companies double while you decline? It's insane and to me indicates some sort of weird behind the scenes corruption.

 

[networkpro]

Genuine question: if increased revenue reflects increased prices, does greatly increased tariffs on imported t-shirts, souvenir merchandise etc, automatically raise revenue (without raising profit, unless % margins are also increased when goods are imported and sold)? If so. revenue isn't a good measure of trading health. Or am I not reading this correctly?

It does upset the calculus that Disney had in place to repatriate any profits from thier Communist China parks. The communist government (that's what they call themselves) is making increasing difficult to move any funds to anywhere not in thier control. Disney has been using merchandise production for that function.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There doesn’t have to be some political conspiracy to believe Disney could be struggling with visitors from their own mismanagement.

Disney’s incompetence is well documented and well reflected in their stock performance and earnings over the last 10 years. During this time, Parks have been the only decent business with the strategy of simply raising prices.

I was just there myself and saw the exact same thing. I’ve never waited 5 minutes for Space Mountain at 2pm, but I did twice in September.

Sure it’s anecdotal, but it’s a data point.

It’s not inconceivable that this margin extraction strategy at Parks has caught up with them and is no longer working. Also, Disney chose to have public political battles, an unforced error regardless of your side.

Disney has some of the worst management in the S&P500. They have somehow to lose 15% of their value while the market has nearly doubled the last 5 years. Truly insane.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I frankly don’t see how Iger isn't gone.

A combination of his influence and power is far and deep, holding him in place and they haven't made a real determined effort to search outside for a replacement in earnest. Like some other corporations that have kept their CEO's who should have been dropped for massive blunders that have been costly, they are fearful of making the right decision. Even though they continue bleeding out.

Because Roy failed…when you break it down

And Steve Jobs really poured gas on the fire

A low talent Hollywood stoolie was allowed to consolidate complete control and turn it into a corporate dictatorship. No guardrails…no checks

So now you have money people telling him what they want to hear in private and him repeating it in public and attempting to not look the fool by draining every ounce a of 100 year old brand to do it. Until he leaves and/or dies…which has a 99% chance of being on the same day.

…but I never really thought about it much before just now

 

[StarWarsGirl]

Genuine question: if increased revenue reflects increased prices, does greatly increased tariffs on imported t-shirts, souvenir merchandise etc, automatically raise revenue (without raising profit, unless % margins are also increased when goods are imported and sold)? If so. revenue isn't a good measure of trading health. Or am I not reading this correctly?

That's a good question, and I am perfectly happy to answer questions like this. However...it's complicated because Disney is a complicated business. Honestly, I graduated top of my class, read 10Ks because I find them interesting...and I only read Disney's last year because it's a monstrosity.

First off, Disney is set to release another 10-K filing. I dislike reading quarterly findings because they're not as robust and they're not audited, meaning they could have errors. So at the time of the last release, tariffs were not a thing.

However, merchandising revenue didn't increase from 2023 to 2024. It dropped a bit.

What I specifically don't like in this statement from a business perspective is these two statements:

That means most of the revenue increase is coming from increased prices, not growth.

This is also interesting as most of their attendance growth was from international attendance, not domestic parks. Concerning as here we go again increasing prices in the domestic parks

And yes, we do want to look wholistically at statements and factor in costs. We can't just factor in revenue, because if revenue increased but the costs are out of control that's an issue. Revenue increases to operating income last year were very similar - 5% increased in revenue to 4% increase in profit. However, with any business, I'd want to see increases in revenue that result from something other than price increases because that's just keeping a business afloat, not setting it up for long term success.

I do thing they are doing the right thing with the new land expansions because this will increase capacity and drive attendance; however, it's going to take a bit to see this reflected. You'll also see a jump in depreciation costs after those lands are built. I don't like the current price increases; however, when they have already shown they have had difficulty keeping attendance up.

Back to merchandising between 2023 and 2024 was fairly consistent in terms of volume; that 1% drop was currency related.

Which brings up a strength with Disney: with their international operations, they're slightly more resistant to tariffs and the effects. As shown above, though, they take that risk back with potentially unfavorable exchange rates. Merchandise pricing and tariffs is a complex issue. That's why you have pricing analysts and cost accountants who specifically determine pricing for merchandising. Because yes, you may need to increase your prices because your cost of goods sold is too high.

I am interested to see the next 10K release. I do expect costs have gone up because it's this chain reaction in the economy. My primary concern with the prior 10K, however, is the statements around park ticket increases because the growth is driven primarily, especially in the US, by the price increases and not because they're offering more services, have increased guest spending, etc.

Now, just because I don't like it doesn't mean we should go to doomsday reactions. This means they need to adjust course, not that they're going out of business (they are nowhere near that point...you want a company that won't be around much longer, see Spirit Airlines), not that they'll sell the parks, etc.

So back to the original question around the effect of tariffs: yes I expect them to affect costs. Yes I want to look at net operating profit and compare the increase to revenue. But until Disney releases their financials, it's hard to say what the exact impact is, and due to the nature of their business, they're a bit more resistant to them than many other businesses, but they have other risk factors.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's a good question, and I am perfectly happy to answer questions like this. However...it's complicated because Disney is a complicated business. Honestly, I graduated top of my class, read 10Ks because I find them interesting...and I only read Disney's last year because it's a monstrosity.

First off, Disney is set to release another 10-K filing. I dislike reading quarterly findings because they're not as robust and they're not audited, meaning they could have errors. So at the time of the last release, tariffs were not a thing.

However, merchandising revenue didn't increase from 2023 to 2024. It dropped a bit.
View attachment 887645

What I specifically don't like in this statement from a business perspective is these two statements:
View attachment 887646

That means most of the revenue increase is coming from increased prices, not growth.

This is also interesting as most of their attendance growth was from international attendance, not domestic parks. Concerning as here we go again increasing prices in the domestic parks
View attachment 887647

And yes, we do want to look wholistically at statements and factor in costs. We can't just factor in revenue, because if revenue increased but the costs are out of control that's an issue. Revenue increases to operating income last year were very similar - 5% increased in revenue to 4% increase in profit. However, with any business, I'd want to see increases in revenue that result from something other than price increases because that's just keeping a business afloat, not setting it up for long term success.

I do thing they are doing the right thing with the new land expansions because this will increase capacity and drive attendance; however, it's going to take a bit to see this reflected. You'll also see a jump in depreciation costs after those lands are built. I don't like the current price increases; however, when they have already shown they have had difficulty keeping attendance up.

Back to merchandising between 2023 and 2024 was fairly consistent in terms of volume; that 1% drop was currency related.

Which brings up a strength with Disney: with their international operations, they're slightly more resistant to tariffs and the effects. As shown above, though, they take that risk back with potentially unfavorable exchange rates. Merchandise pricing and tariffs is a complex issue. That's why you have pricing analysts and cost accountants who specifically determine pricing for merchandising. Because yes, you may need to increase your prices because your cost of goods sold is too high.

I am interested to see the next 10K release. I do expect costs have gone up because it's this chain reaction in the economy. My primary concern with the prior 10K, however, is the statements around park ticket increases because the growth is driven primarily, especially in the US, by the price increases and not because they're offering more services, have increased guest spending, etc.

Now, just because I don't like it doesn't mean we should go to doomsday reactions. This means they need to adjust course, not that they're going out of business (they are nowhere near that point...you want a company that won't be around much longer, see Spirit Airlines), not that they'll sell the parks, etc.

So back to the original question around the effect of tariffs: yes I expect them to affect costs. Yes I want to look at net operating profit and compare the increase to revenue. But until Disney releases their financials, it's hard to say what the exact impact is, and due to the nature of their business, they're a bit more resistant to them than many other businesses, but they have other risk factors.

I find this entire post incredibly H-O-T

…but in a totally plutonic, not weird sorta way

 

[Chi84]

I find this entire post incredibly H-O-T

…but in a totally plutonic, not weird sorta way

It’s very informative.

You should take it for granite.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Genuine question: if increased revenue reflects increased prices, does greatly increased tariffs on imported t-shirts, souvenir merchandise etc, automatically raise revenue (without raising profit, unless % margins are also increased when goods are imported and sold)? If so. revenue isn't a good measure of trading health. Or am I not reading this correctly?

Tariffs don't automatically flow through to retail prices. There are many steps in the supply chain and consumers don't just buy the same amount with higher prices. It's not that simple. Think about it logically. If the price of something goes up 15%, do you buy more or less? You likely will buy something else or do without it. This is the market at work. Very subtle, but you do this every day in everything you buy. A yogurt is $2 but one just as good as $1.50, easy decision. The $2 yogurt people have to reduce their price or go out of biz if it continues.

Most business/products don't have the pricing power to simply pass costs through to retail. The exporter, importer, wholesaler, retailer, etc all have a say in it. China making the shirts will see a reduction demand if any or all of those points aren't accepting of price increase.

Despite what you read , we haven't seen tariffs flow through to overall price increases as many predicted because it's much more complex than 10% tariff = 10% higher prices. Anyone telling you that doesn't understand tariffs and/or is politically biased.

Disney raising prices (this was the strategy long before tariffs) and is the primary driver for increased revenue, not more guests or guests buying more stuff.

In the end, consumers decide the prices they'll pay based on the demand. Disney does have pricing power which is why people have paid the higher prices long before tariffs came into the news. BTW, tariffs have always been a part of every administration, not just the current one. Also, other countries do charge tariffs for some of the same reasons as the current US administration.

Before anyone comes at me, I am generally a free trade purist, but the real world isn't that simple.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Anyone in the parks, do you agree or disagree with this?

Disney attendance plunges to all-time low for 2025 as visitors report 'ghost towns' at parks

Average wait times at Walt Disney World drop to 24 minutes in September, the shortest three-week stretch of the year, according to crowd tracking data.

www.foxnews.com

My experience in august was that some waits were very low, but WDW manages to keep a few attraction wait times on the higher side.

So like in Epcot, most of future world was walk-on, but FEA and GoG had waits. Mind, the GoG and FEA waits were also shorter than last year, but not short.

Waits only tell part of the story though. Right now is not a great time to visit WDW due to all the construction/closures. This past summer was a fun time to visit Uni though!

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I don't think it's anything political or that people are "punishing" Disney but simply because we're getting into a recession economy, and this is the effects. The amusement park industry as a whole has been feeling the effects (see $100 million loss from Six Flags...which I think is likely an epically botched merger, but I wanna see their annual filing before I make that judgement. Anyway...)

Mostly I agree, but WDW = a celebration of Americana. People I know are just not that excited to be celebrating Americana right now. It is partly politics, partly the economy, mostly people just feel that the country is dysfunctional.

But even before the shutdown, there is a general sense that the country's dysfunctional.

People see it in all sorts of ways. My insurance company made a small billing mistake when billing me for a reg office visit, and it is going to take - get this - 45 BUSINESS days to correct it after a comically epic effort on my part of making phone calls and waiting on hold, etc.

To me, Disney also feels a bit dysfunctional. Touring has become too complicated. The other day, I went to small local fair, and the rides were simple, but it was fun to just go from ride to ride with minimal waiting, no plan, no phone, no dining reservations....

 

[jprieur]

Used to have annual passes and go multiple times a year since 2013. Some week long trips with some random long weekends throw in. Past several years it’s been intermittent annual passes. We will NOT be renewing after looking at the rack rates for our next trip. Granted they will eventually apply some discounts; but even with the anticipated discounts, I’m not paying that. The value is just gone and it’s just outrageous what they are charging. Affording it is not the problem for us, it’s the value for what we pay. You are charging luxury prices for a non luxury product.

Regardless of your income level you have to rationalize your spend; and it’s just not there anymore for me. It’s not just the hotels it’s just the entire offering. I can recall our 2013 trips stating at port Orleans and enjoying magic kingdom till 2am without up charge or deluxe requirements, using magic express (not for the cost savings but the bubble extension).

I’ve noticed last few trips that LL has been avail for headline rides often till late in the day; no longer selling out, so it seems to me less people are paying the up charge there. Events don’t seem to be an issue as those def sell out.

 

[graphite1326]

I was there for three weeks between August and September. Never bought LL. I think the longest I waited was for Tron and Guardians at about an hour. Other than that, I mostly was waiting about 30 minutes or less for everything.

I was there at the same time and found the same to be true. Never bought LL.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Mostly I agree, but WDW = a celebration of Americana.

No longer true at all.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

No longer true at all.

WDW Americana:

Main Street, Liberty Square, HoP, Space Mtn, M:S, SE, American Adventure, American Heritage Gallery, CBJ, HoB, Meet Mickey at Town Square, Sunset Blvd, Frontierland, Tomorrowland, American threads, Beverly Sunset Boutique, Frontier Trading Post, Fulton's General Store, Legends of Hollywood, Levis Store, Mickey's of hollywood, Savannah Bee Company, Vineyard Vines, Liberty Singers

1900PF, 50's PT, ABC Comm, A& Compass, Backlot Express, Blue ribbon corn dogs, Boathouse, Cali Grill, Cape May, Casey's corner, Chuck Wagon, Cityworks, Cosmic Ray's, Crockett's tavern, Diamond Horseshoe, the Edison, Fife &Drum, Ghirardelli, Brown Derby, Liberty TT, Martha's Vinyard, Planet Hollywood, Plaza, Regal Eagle, Rosie's All-American Cafe, Sci-Fi DIT, Sleepy Hollow, trail's end, Westward Ho, WCC,

Beach/Yacht Club, Boardwalk, CR, WL, Saratoga Springs, ASM, ASSp, ASM, Pop, GF, Old Key West, Port Orleans, Ft. WL

 

[Chef Mickey]

WDW Americana:

Main Street, Liberty Square, HoP, Space Mtn, M:S, SE, American Adventure, American Heritage Gallery, CBJ, HoB, Meet Mickey at Town Square, Sunset Blvd, Frontierland, Tomorrowland, American threads, Beverly Sunset Boutique, Frontier Trading Post, Fulton's General Store, Legends of Hollywood, Levis Store, Mickey's of hollywood, Savannah Bee Company, Vineyard Vines, Liberty Singers

1900PF, 50's PT, ABC Comm, A& Compass, Backlot Express, Blue ribbon corn dogs, Boathouse, Cali Grill, Cape May, Casey's corner, Chuck Wagon, Cityworks, Cosmic Ray's, Crockett's tavern, Diamond Horseshoe, the Edison, Fife &Drum, Ghirardelli, Brown Derby, Liberty TT, Martha's Vinyard, Planet Hollywood, Plaza, Regal Eagle, Rosie's All-American Cafe, Sci-Fi DIT, Sleepy Hollow, trail's end, Westward Ho, WCC,

Beach/Yacht Club, Boardwalk, CR, WL, Saratoga Springs, ASM, ASSp, ASM, Pop, GF, Old Key West, Port Orleans, Ft. WL

I didn't say that those don't exist, but there is a difference between that and "celebrating" it, IMO. What's new that celebrates Americana? Pretty much everything you listed is old.

The Hall of Presidents and American Adventure would never be built today. That's the point I'm making.

 

[Chi84]

What's new that celebrates Americana?

What would you suggest?

 

[Stripes]

What's new that celebrates Americana?

Piston Peak National Park. Tiana’s Bayou Adventure. At Disneyland, Walt Disney - A Magical Life.