News Disney Lakeshore Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)

[nickys]

Just out of curiosity - since Saratoga/OKW villas are seemingly always available to book direct from Disney (much greater availability than Poly, Bay Lake, BW, BC, etc) - how are we confirming only 5% are booked outside of DVC? Are they contractually required to allocate 95% to DVC irrespective of fill rate - or can they sell a greater percentage direct vs letting them sit unfilled?

If not, the lower point charts at OKW and Saratoga are relevant vs what are are likely to see here.

Disney own 2-5% of every DVC resort.

The points sold to DVC members are “declared in batches. And since the total # of points for a resort are known, as are the # of points sold, we can see what percentage Disney owns.

In addition, any unbooked DVC rooms at 60 days can be sold by Disney.

The points charts here will be on a par with Riviera, being a new shiny resort.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

but I think they are still much better as a whole compared to a run of the mill Marriott.

The brand new Westin next to Disneyland looks about the same as the Poly tower and Disneyland DVC tower. Interior and exterior.

 

[JaxFLBear]

Just out of curiosity - since Saratoga/OKW villas are seemingly always available to book direct from Disney (much greater availability than Poly, Bay Lake, BW, BC, etc) - how are we confirming only 5% are booked outside of DVC? Are they contractually required to allocate 95% to DVC irrespective of fill rate - or can they sell a greater percentage direct vs letting them sit unfilled?

If not, the lower point charts at OKW and Saratoga are relevant vs what are are likely to see here.

Rooms are also made available direct from Disney when a DVC Member uses their points outside of the DVC System (for a Disney Cruise as an example). A "cash" room is made available so that DVC can pay a pre-negotiated cash rate for the cruise. Members can also use points for the non-DVC Resorts at Disney as well as other non-Disney hotels. None of these options are really a good use of points.

 

[FiestaFunKid]

Disney own 2-5% of every DVC resort.

The points sold to DVC members are “declared in batches. And since the total # of points for a resort are known, as are the # of points sold, we can see what percentage Disney owns.

got it - then I guess you are saying it can never flex beyond the ownership rate (i.e. there can never be more than 5% of Saratoga sold direct from Disney)....edit: clarification above from JAX pointed out they can flex if points ever used outside the system.

The further unknown variable would be how often points are rented - ie sold outside of the DVC owners, which is essentially proxy for Disney selling direct (competing for the same demand for Disney stays from the general public)

Either way, don't think the DVC to Disney split assuages my concern much in terms filling the place anyways, if rates/points are too high. Agree that it would take really compelling pool and amenities to do it, and a lazy river is a decent start. Thus far, the structural layout doesn't seem like it will offer anything especially creative or appealing.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I’m guessing they will certainly share boat transportation if nothing else.

This will have its own boat dock, but I'm guessing you're right and that they will share boat transportation.

 

[BrianLo]

The brand new Westin next to Disneyland looks about the same as the Poly tower and Disneyland DVC tower. Interior and exterior.

I’m not sure at what points things constitute as trolling. That poster has literally used the Marriott, Fairfield, courtyard comparator 100x now. Or… Aloft?! Is this in any way a spawn off of the W brand? But I realize the comment isn’t meant to have much critical thought behind it anymore.

But exactly this, the Marriott portfolio of 30 odd brands; I’m fairly confident it would be considered a Westin. In addition to the Riviera, very much a Eurocentric Westin, but European original buildings would have better original build quality. The PIT is a bit weird and would have to be branded as something different in actual Hawaii. Probably half removing the argument.

Hotels this specific one reminds me of are the Westin Bear Mountain, the Westin Whistler or the AC Kananaski Lodge. Larger scaling. But the hyperbole it is an entry level brand is trite. Nor is it a luxury brand, it is a premium one.

SSR on the other hand cannot even muster indoor hallways or out building elevators. That’s something even travel lodges in Canada can do.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Since the reboot of this resort, has Disney ever verified it will be half and half DVC / Disney? I have been watching and have not seen anything definitive.

Do architectural diagrams showing cash rooms and DVC rooms count?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

This will have its own boat dock,

It will?

SSR on the other hand cannot even muster indoor hallways or out building elevators.

SSR and Old Key West are trying to be something completely different. More like vacation condos - which are usually more like apartments / Townhomes.

Both are also well themed - both feel like Disney Resorts.

 

[BrianLo]

got it - then I guess you are saying it can never flex beyond the ownership rate (i.e. there can never be more than 5% of Saratoga sold direct from Disney)....edit: clarification above from JAX pointed out they can flex if points ever used outside the system.

The further unknown variable would be how often points are rented - ie sold outside of the DVC owners, which is essentially proxy for Disney selling direct (competing for the same demand for Disney stays from the general public)

Either way, don't think the DVC to Disney split assuages my concern much in terms filling the place anyways, if rates/points are too high. Agree that it would take really compelling pool and amenities to do it, and a lazy river is a decent start. Thus far, the structural layout doesn't seem like it will offer anything especially creative or appealing.

SSR also has members trading out more than trading in within the system itself. So any breakage tends to occur most heavily in SSR/OKW.

Unless this resort is terribly incorrectly priced, I don’t think it will have much difficulty filling cash rooms. DVC membership are highly driven by pool complexes, so that side won’t be a long term issue.

But the MK area has serially removed thousands of cash rooms over the last 15 years as we head into a relatively big expansion of that park. No matter how much you feel about it, it will be popular. As is Disney felt the crunch in 2017/18 that MK area needed more cash rooms and then turned around and have removed I believe 530 cash options since. Albeit the cabins will go on forever at this rate.

 

[BrianLo]

SSR and Old Key West are trying to be something completely different. More like vacation condos - which are usually more like apartments / Townhomes.

I’ll admit that it is the northern blood in me that doesn’t make it feel like anything other than low quality. I see the vacation condo angle and I *personally* hate the angle. I suspect most vacationers feel the same way, given the push around interior hallways.

The other aspect is the sprawl. Being shoved over in the Carousel has made SSR my number one I don’t get why people complain about the new builds when these things exist diatribe.

 

[Horizons '83]

The brand new Westin next to Disneyland looks about the same as the Poly tower and Disneyland DVC tower. Interior and exterior.

The one on West Katella? I've stayed there several times if that is the one you're refering to. Its nice, for sure but the interior at the Poly tower is a bit nicer and comes with balconies. The Westin pool is just ok. To each their own.

 

[FiestaFunKid]

SSR also has members trading out more than trading in within the system itself. So any breakage tends to occur most heavily in SSR/OKW.

Unless this resort is terribly incorrectly priced, I don’t think it will have much difficulty filling cash rooms. DVC membership are highly driven by pool complexes, so that side won’t be a long term issue.

But the MK area has serially removed thousands of cash rooms over the last 15 years as we head into a relatively big expansion of that park. No matter how much you feel about it, it will be popular. As is Disney felt the crunch in 2017/18 that MK area needed more cash rooms and then turned around and have removed I believe 530 cash options since. Albeit the cabins will go on forever at this rate.

It's certainly not impossible to fill a new Disney resort on Bay Lake - but pricing with GF/POLY/CR could be 'terribly incorrect' long term. With all that transferring out of SSR/OKW, those rooms are always available at lower rates.

Valid point about MK losing rooms - but I'm not as certain as you that the general public is going to look at this location as a replacement for lost Poly and GF rooms. Many may just stay at other DVC resorts more convenient to other parks.

 

[BrianLo]

Do architectural diagrams showing cash rooms and DVC rooms count?

It drives me wild FYI that the onus of proof is not on the fact Disney has never said they won’t include both (and we both know they’ll include both).

But that the bad musings of the internet holds more weight. So many communities have convinced themselves there are no cash rooms, despite Disney having never once said otherwise. Nor actual evidence that they ever deviated from the first plan.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The one on West Katella? I've stayed there several times if that is the one you're refering to. Its nice, for sure but the interior at the Poly tower is a bit nicer and comes with balconies. The Westin pool is just ok. To each their own.

Yeah. How is the Poly tower nicer?

I mean Moana splash pad aside. Haha

 

[BrianLo]

Valid point about MK losing rooms - but I'm not as certain as you that the general public is going to look at this location as a replacement for lost Poly and GF rooms.

I technically globally meant replacement for Wilderness Lodge and the Cabins. Wilderness Lodge doesn’t have enough cash rooms for demand anymore (Copper Creek). It is exacerbated by the rebalancing of the Seven Seas Resorts. The decision around reflections came off the back of Copper Creek and how busy Magic Kingdom became end of last decade.

If it is priced in the same universe as Wilderness Lodge it will be fine. If it is priced like Grand Flo it won’t fill.

 

[Horizons '83]

Yeah. How is the Poly tower nicer?

I mean Moana splash pad aside. Haha

The rooms are a bit dated and drab the last stay in 2024 at the Westin. The pool is small too but then again so is the Poly pool. From a room perspective and location, I'd give the Poly a edge.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The rooms are a bit dated and drab the last stay in 2024 at the Westin. The pool is small too but then again so is the Poly pool. From a room perspective and location, I'd give the Poly an edge.

I just stayed in June and would definitely not call them dated or drab. But I’ve only been through the lobby at Poly tower - so I can’t comment on the actual stay.

I would say they are comparable but if you were impressed by the “Disney difference” at Poly tower maybe I’m missing something.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I just stayed in June and would definitely not call them dated or drab. But I’ve only been through the lobby at Poly tower - so I can’t comment on the actual stay.

I would say they are comparable but if you were impressed by the “Disney difference” at Poly tower maybe I’m missing something.

So you haven't stayed at both, have only went through the lobby of one of them, but somehow also try to say they are comparable? Gotcha

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

So you haven't stayed at both, have only went through the lobby of one of them, but somehow also try to say they are comparable? Gotcha

Correct. I can’t compare 2 buildings I’ve seen with my own eyes? Lol.

The physical rooms aren’t that different across WDW property - the discussion is the design of the buildings / towers.

 

[BrianLo]

I just stayed in June and would definitely not call them dated or drab. But I’ve only been through the lobby at Poly tower - so I can’t comment on the actual stay.

I would say they are comparable but if you were impressed by the “Disney difference” at Poly tower maybe I’m missing something.

The rooms at PIT facing Seven Seas are nicer than expected. I have a lot of complaints about that resort particularly around its DVC pricing and integration. But the finished product surprised me. The exterior is a very poor foot forward.