DAK 'Encanto' and 'Indiana Jones'-themed experiences at Animal Kingdom

[Timothy_Q]

Funny thing is, I remember when I was complaining about the plan to put Moana in Animal Kingdom because that movie isn't about animals, I had people constantly telling me that Animal Kingdom wasn't actually about animals but rather about humans' relationship with nature or whatever. But because the Encanto attraction will supposedly focus on animals, it fits in Animal Kingdom?

You were just complaining the ride will focus on Antonio, now you're complaining the ride will focus on animals, which is it

Have you considered that Antonio is a human, and his ability to speak with animals can be adapted to fit the man/nature relationship theme of DAK

 

[Casper Gutman]

Honestly, at the point I don’t particularly care about thematic cohesion. That ship has sailed. I want a good ride that represents the IP well. There’s a lot of signs we’re going to get another Tiana - a strong franchise forced into the wrong situation that loses all the charm of the IP.

 

[DisneyHead123]

3. the supernatural is more antithetical to the natural than man is, so even if this were true, it wouldn't make Indy a better fit for DAK.

That depends on what you mean by supernatural. Spiritual practices tend to be more associated with groups living close to nature than with staunch materialists.

Again, though, it depends on what you mean by supernatural. If you’re talking Casper the Friendly Ghost or the serpent people report seeing while doing ayahuasca with shamans in the Amazon.

 

[BlakeW39]

They have been contorting IP a lot lately to try to puzzle it in since they must. That's the outcome of the IP mandate. It's not ideal, but the point is that a ride including Jones can fit. That does not mean IJ (especially as a character) is a natural fit for the park. Rather, it means that it's pretty easy to imagine a path by which they can reasonably get away with his inclusion in a much more organic, straightforward, and elegant manner than with, say, Tiana or Cars in Frontierland.

If by, "it can fit," you mean it is possible for them to put Indiana Jones inside a ride about conservation and nature, then yes, they can do that. But definitely not in an organic, straightforward, or elegant manner. Because again, these aren't themes that naturally occur within the Indy IP, so trying to stretch Indy to focus on these themes is inorganic, roundabout, and contrived.

I have to ask: what is this fairly straightfoward story treatment you are thinking of? Simply putting some mythological snake deity inside of a traditional Indy temple, would not fit Animal Kingdom. And it definitely wouldn't make IJA similar to Everest. The mythological snake would have to be protecting nature for one, not the remnants of some ancient civilization, and it would have to be framed as a wild animal, rather than a literal deity that exists for human worship. I don't really think that would fit in an Indiana Jones type adventure.

 

[Fox&Hound]

It's weird that people keep flip flopping on wanting book reports vs not. But imo bringing Facilier back would be the one thing missing from TBA that I would really want. But I probably wouldn't even bring him back, I would bring his shadow back in a little (mostly projection) based fight as you rise up the lift hill with Mama Odie's magic being the final push to send you down the hill to get you away. To add to it, the shadow would be seen creeping in the background in certain scenes as it tracks you down.

I dunno. I would rather have a book report of classic scenes from a beloved film than these awkward sequel rides like Frozen and Tiana’s Bayou Adventure that walk a weird line of trying to be something new but ultimately disappointing as people just want to see the characters and moments they recognize and love. Like how Frozen shoehorns “Let it Go” but it is supposed to be after the film.

 

[Jedi14]

I dunno. I would rather have a book report of classic scenes from a beloved film than these awkward sequel rides like Frozen and Tiana’s Bayou Adventure that walk a weird line of trying to be something new but ultimately disappointing as people just want to see the characters and moments they recognize and love. Like how Frozen shoehorns “Let it Go” but it is supposed to be after the film.

I’m the opposite. I’d prefer post movie adventures than trying put the whole movie in a three to seven minute ride.

 

[James Alucobond]

If by, "it can fit," you mean it is possible for them to put Indiana Jones inside a ride about conservation and nature, then yes, they can do that. But definitely not in an organic, straightforward, or elegant manner. Because again, these aren't themes that naturally occur within the Indy IP, so trying to stretch Indy to focus on these themes is inorganic, roundabout, and contrived.

I have to ask: what is this fairly straightfoward story treatment you are thinking of? Simply putting some mythological snake deity inside of a traditional Indy temple, would not fit Animal Kingdom. And it definitely wouldn't make IJA similar to Everest. The mythological snake would have to be protecting nature for one, not the remnants of some ancient civilization, and it would have to be framed as a wild animal, rather than a literal deity that exists for human worship. I don't really think that would fit in an Indiana Jones type adventure.

He can appear within a temple that is being excavated for archaeological purposes that also happens to have been built around the lair of some sort of cryptid or living fossil. That is both within the realm of possibility for an IJ adventure and presents ample opportunity for supporting details that speak to the themes of AK. It won’t make Jones a character who has anything to do with AK’s themes, but he’s been incidental in every version of this ride anyway, with about three lines pertaining to the escape itself.

 

[JackCH]

Honestly, at the point I don’t particularly care about thematic cohesion. That ship has sailed. I want a good ride that represents the IP well. There’s a lot of signs we’re going to get another Tiana - a strong franchise forced into the wrong situation that loses all the charm of the IP.

To me most of the charm of Encanto is the setting (the house) and the characters, not so much the plot. So if they can make the house “come alive” and the characters shine through I think it can work.

But I do agree with the danger.

 

[MLevell]

Most Indiana Jones stories are about objects of great ancient power and Indy's belief that there is a right thing to do with them (Place them in a museum, return them to where they came from, leave them where they are, hide them) and how his idea is in conflict with the antagonist who wants to use this resource for their own selfish gains. Now if the object of great ancient power is a mythological animal (Similar to Everest's Yeti) that idea, that there is a right way to treat the things we find in the world, is not a million miles away from a conservation message, no it's not the exact same thing but it seems to me a reasonable expansion of Animal Kingdom's themes.

As for Encanto, and I only saw the film once so excuse me if I'm misremembering, one of the side characters can talk to animals and has a whole jungle in their bedroom: so in the ride I'd have it so that kid go missing and we follow the main characters into his room to look for him, at first we would have scary encounters with the animals until the end when we find the kid who explains we shouldn't be afraid, the animals are our friends!

Are these 100% in keeping with what some Imagineer said Animal Kingdom is all about in an interview once, I guess not although I'm not sure every single attraction the park has ever made has always met those criteria as well.

For those that honestly believes these are a bridge to far from what Animal Kingdom should be, my question for you is do you agree that Animal Kingdom needs more rides, and if yes but not these then what? Because while the park is no doubt an incredible achievement in theming it doesn't change the fact that every single person I have ever brought to the park since it opened, be they first timers, first in a long timers, or frequent visitors, has after a couple hours turned to me and said " So, uh Now What?"

 

[eddie104]

Honestly, at the point I don’t particularly care about thematic cohesion. That ship has sailed. I want a good ride that represents the IP well. There’s a lot of signs we’re going to get another Tiana - a strong franchise forced into the wrong situation that loses all the charm of the IP.

I’m actually agreeing with a lot more that’s scary.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ֊ᗩζᗩᗰ]

There’s a lot of signs we’re going to get another Tiana - a strong franchise forced into the wrong situation that loses all the charm of the IP.

Dare I ask? What signs are those?

 

[eddie104]

Dare I ask? What signs are those?

There isn’t any just pure cynicism that’s typical on these boards.

 

[BlakeW39]

Honestly, at the point I don’t particularly care about thematic cohesion. That ship has sailed. I want a good ride that represents the IP well. There’s a lot of signs we’re going to get another Tiana - a strong franchise forced into the wrong situation that loses all the charm of the IP.

I understand and sympathize with this philosophy. But for me, once the theme parks lose their themes, I'm out. It's one of the reasons I don't show up here as often as I used to. It's kind of hard to be an active fan of a type of entertainment that, 1.) has no unique ideas and can only crib ideas off of other types of entertainment, and 2.) is totally bereft of narrative depth and has no cohesive storytelling whatsoever. Like a film that is only a collection of individual, expensive CGI fight scenes and easter eggs.

But I still really have a soft spot for theme parks. And I think it's important to discuss what decisions are artistically good and what ones are bad, separate from the nihilism that nothing will ever change because IP is king and bad decisions have to be good enough because that's all we'll ever get.

There isn’t any just pure cynicism that’s typical lon these boards.

Are you familiar with the phrase, "poisoning the well?"

 

[Incomudro]

That's true, but Indiana Jones is an archaeologist, and deals with the supernatural as an extension of archaeology (mythology) rather than as an extension of zoology (cryptozoology). He never studies or interacts with the supernatural in a way that has subtext about nature, and the moral of his stories never involves him learning a lesson about nature or learning to value or protect it.

Nature - snakes and crocodiles are essentially one of the enemies in Indiana Jones.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Most Indiana Jones stories are about objects of great ancient power and Indy's belief that there is a right thing to do with them (Place them in a museum, return them to where they came from, leave them where they are, hide them) and how his idea is in conflict with the antagonist who wants to use this resource for their own selfish gains. Now if the object of great ancient power is a mythological animal (Similar to Everest's Yeti) that idea, that there is a right way to treat the things we find in the world, is not a million miles away from a conservation message, no it's not the exact same thing but it seems to me a reasonable expansion of Animal Kingdom's themes.

As for Encanto, and I only saw the film once so excuse me if I'm misremembering, one of the side characters can talk to animals and has a whole jungle in their bedroom: so in the ride I'd have it so that kid go missing and we follow the main characters into his room to look for him, at first we would have scary encounters with the animals until the end when we find the kid who explains we shouldn't be afraid, the animals are our friends!

Are these 100% in keeping with what some Imagineer said Animal Kingdom is all about in an interview once, I guess not although I'm not sure every single attraction the park has ever made has always met those criteria as well.

For those that honestly believes these are a bridge to far from what Animal Kingdom should be, my question for you is do you agree that Animal Kingdom needs more rides, and if yes but not these then what? Because while the park is no doubt an incredible achievement in theming it doesn't change the fact that every single person I have ever brought to the park since it opened, be they first timers, first in a long timers, or frequent visitors, has after a couple hours turned to me and said " So, uh Now What?"

That's actually a pretty decent storyline. I could imagine extending it out into going through various parts of the house too though. As detours happen. Heck you can make it so it fits with the exact moment of the movie where the magic fades and so when Antonio is riding his jaguar friend it somewhat acts wildly again and dashes off into the house somewhere. Could have a scene in Isabella's flower room that could have some impressive effects and floral scents, etc. A small easter egg hinting at Bruno like his eyes from behind the painting or through cracks in the wall. Stuff like that would still be faithful to the characters and show a message about a fun 'what if we could speak to animals' how our relationship with them would change, we would be much more understanding thats for sure and could better understand why they do the things they do.

 

[eddie104]

Are you familiar with the phrase, "poisoning the well?"

So you don’t believe that Disney can create two attractions that respect their IP but also simultaneously fit into AK ?

You seem to be ignoring all the work they are putting into TA as a whole to make sure the whole land is as authentic as possible and fits into the parks existing fabric.

 

[TomboyJanet]

what i've come to notice is that corporations now a days are really just devoid of creativity this has become the norm in our weird world. this is a saddening trend that values profit over creating something truely wonderful. At one point people wanted to build wonders but today they want to build wealth and boring old crusty power trips

 

[lentesta]

Let's pull back. Rohde himself claimed DAK has three themes: the intrinsic value of nature, philosophical transformation through adventure (towards to conservationist's philososphy), and a call to conservational action. Indiana Jones as an IP doesn't possess any of those themes. Can you make up some story where Indy touches on those themes? Yes, of course you can. Actually, you can do that with almost any IP. But in order to do it, you would have to stretch Indiana Jones beyond what the IP is about. Which is why it's not a good fit for DAK. It simply does not naturally lend itself to the themes of AK. Trying to get some conservationist message out of Indiana Jones is extremely contrived and not something the IP would ever be asked to do under normal circumstances.

I was at the Maya archaeology conference earlier this year where Joe Rohde and Imagineering presented their research for the Indy ride at DAK. It seems like a direct fit for the "philosophical transformation through adventure" theme.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

The existing IJA rides don't tell character driven narratives, so yeah, Indy as a character isn't as important there as he is in his films. But the IJA rides still operate within the conventions of the Indiana Jones IP, which would be a problem for DAK.

Let's pull back. Rohde himself claimed DAK has three themes: the intrinsic value of nature, philosophical transformation through adventure (towards to conservationist's philososphy), and a call to conservational action. Indiana Jones as an IP doesn't possess any of those themes. Can you make up some story where Indy touches on those themes? Yes, of course you can. Actually, you can do that with almost any IP. But in order to do it, you would have to stretch Indiana Jones beyond what the IP is about. Which is why it's not a good fit for DAK. It simply does not naturally lend itself to the themes of AK. Trying to get some conservationist message out of Indiana Jones is extremely contrived and not something the IP would ever be asked to do under normal circumstances.

I just genuinely cannot understand this take when a ride focused on man’s connection to the animal kingdom as reflected in their culture and spiritualism is a great fit for Indiana Jones. Just because a film version of Indy has not done anything based around that does not mean it cannot be done and wouldn’t work well.

Indiana Jones, as you said, is a studier of man. Man has a long, historic relationship with the animal kingdom. It has influenced their folklore, their art, their music, and their religion. These ideas are manifested in other attractions in the park already.

Why then is it such a stretch in your mind to have a character whose purpose is to study what remains of human culture stumble upon an ancient creature that is a fixture of that civilization’s culture?

He does not have to be seeking it. Indy never seeks any of the things he has stumbled upon. He has never set out to find the spirits of the Ark, or to deal directly with god, or meet aliens. But the nature of his work has brought him there.

Why would that not fit fine with DAK? Why is there such opposition to the idea that Indy can be just another way to explore mankind’s different connections to and observations of the animal world and how it is has and continues to influence our beliefs?

@Disgruntled Walt Same question for you friend. I’m genuinely curious to hear what about the above doesn’t work.

 

[James Alucobond]

what i've come to notice is that corporations now a days are really just devoid of creativity this has become the norm in our weird world. this is a saddening trend that values profit over creating something truely wonderful. At one point people wanted to build wonders but today they want to build wealth and boring old crusty power trips

It’s not about today versus yesteryear. There are plenty of modern marvels. It’s about being an established company that has to balance tradition, innovation, and a changing audience versus being a novel and nimble upstart that can turn on a dime.