TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
I was at DL in June - reservations were completely booked at both parks some of the days I was there.
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WDW July 4 2025
- Thread starter monothingie
- Start date
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Index was around 97 yesterday…posted
On Memorial Day weekend it was 98 ish…
The actual air temp was 5 degrees cooler…so you got a wash there.
Not too awful for Orlando in July. But let’s make that irrelevant. People decide within the 10 day forecast to drop 4 or 5 figures in central Florida or not? That’s a thing now?
You can go any time you want. I just gave you the stats on your “thank god we can…”
It’s a reach and just an opinion based on old patterns. Like crowds…for example.
No problem there…you want me to say that it’s up to you and it is. But not exactly right down the middle here in fact.
SoFloMagic
Well-Known Member
Yeah, index doesn't tell the whole story though. It can increase from direct sun/uv index or from humidity. Last night humidity was 94% at 9pm. Thats brutal -your skin just cant breathe.
Chi84
Premium Member
My point is that I’m lucky to be able to visit at times of the year when temperatures and humidity are not that high.
I have no idea of what’s in the minds of people who go to WDW in July. But I imagine they would arrange their daily schedule to visit a water park or even a different park to avoid excessive heat or rain.
We’ve never seen empty parks, restaurants, hotels etc. at WDW but I think that’s what @Disone meant when he said crowd size is relative. If someone is there continuously they could have a different impression of what is or is not crowded.
There is only a handful of posters who insist WDW is empty or a ghost town so you can’t be surprised if people take it with a grain of salt, especially when it contradicts their own experience.
I was happy to see lower crowds the last time we visited. It made our trip easier than some of the others.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Shouldn’t it be? Local crowd demographics, little variability in the weather compared to Florida, no school…
We reinventing the wheel here? Or is it an urge to take whatever the PR tags say at complete face value?
And I believe “reservations were booked” for 2 of the three days I was in Disneyland in April…and gosh darn it…I could still breath AND find an open urinal
Disone
Well-Known Member
I don't think you paid attention to the figment protocols very well. Sniff and smell are really the same test
. Sight, sound and smell test
Disone
Well-Known Member
Yeah that's a pretty good capture. Definitely not a hoax to say crowds are down. They are. But the place isn't the ghost town that some say it is. What feels slow to repeat visitors like myself literally can feel packed to someone who is not experienced with the Disney park. I'll look around and go oh my gosh Peter Pan is only a 35-minute wait today while someone else will leave the park and exclaim they could not get on any other rides because none of them were less than 2 hours. They are wrong and they don't even look at the wait times and make really bad assumptions.
Is attendance down? Absolutely yes. Is it significant. I think so!
But 4th of July was still busy. Hard not to think otherwise when you're caught in the middle of a couple of international tour groups that are chanting and some of them don't smell so great. So when I say sights, sound, and smell, unfortunately I mean all three of " figment protocols
"It would be very hard to find someone with more experienced in WDW parks than someone like myself. Literally thousands of Disney days in the parks. What I feel is a slow day could be someone elses perceived crowd control nightmare. And that's what I mean by it's all relative.
Here's a post we won't see a lot of..... " Hey guys it was my first time ever at Disney and oh my Gosh I couldn't believe there were no lines anywhere. I felt like I had the whole theme park to myself and my family. It was so wonderful." first-time visitor just isn't going to perceive the "ghost town" that the experienced visitor is perceiving.
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Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
…I know…I had to stretch that metaphor a bitI don't think you paid attention to the figment protocols very well. Sniff and smell are really the same test
Sight, sound and smell test
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Well Remember from our perspective…”empty” is a completely different take than the business reality.
Do the customers want “empty”? Of course we do…absolutely. Who wouldn’t?
Is it actually good for us? Hell no. More people, more revenue and profit potential. Empty days are a huge loss on so many levels it would take all day and night to go through the red ink on the ledger.
The have to…not optional…have a high volume of foot traffic. It isn’t optional. It’s how all the math has worked.
They have a bandaid on with lightning lane and jockeys…for now…it’s shielding the losses. But that is the most precarious of “solutions”. If the public (mostly dusters) figure it out that it’s totally unnecessary and just don’t get the thrill or buying it…that is a pivot on a dime.
Big problem.
In an ideal world…should we care? No. But the one thing we all agree about is the price escalations and microcharges look “cheap” in the parks and none of us like that. And that will amplify if these dead zones in attendance continue to expand.
Anyone want an empty park until 5 and then $400 “magical” Halloween party tickets?
How awesomeness is that?
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Disneyland was equally dead yesterday. In 4 hours I did 12 rides including all the mountains and Rise without using a LL or SRL.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Whoa!!!!!!! i was thinking it was an east coast thing. Interesting.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
They use the same currency on both coasts…that’s the “issue”
Domestic spending has been pulling back for months.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
High humidity sucks…
But “the weather” isn’t what is depressing crowds. That’s what an idiot in Burbank blame’s and we need not support such stupidity
It can be much, much worse.
Memorial Day 2024 the temp was 98-100 with 85% RH each day…index was 111+
It felt like Venus.
That was not yesterday…or the same period this year…or frankly much so far this year. 2024 had a BRUTAL spring and early summer…that may be a deterrent to travel for sure. Hard to put it all on the feet of the weather. Very easy to put it where it actually lies: bad management and pricing.
I just notice there was a tropical system rolling by the last few days too…totally missed that as far as humidity goes
Chi84
Premium Member
There's the disconnect. You ask if lower crowds are good for "us," meaning the customers, and then go on to talk about the company's financial health. I'm as solicitous of Disney's financial health as it is of mine. We are not friends or family. If they increase prices to the point of going out of business, so be it.
If the crowds come back in great numbers to aid Disney's financial health, the parks won't be worth visiting for me.
And I don't believe any increases in revenue or profit will result in lower prices, longer hours or the removal of upcharge events. Only a significant change of direction by management will do that and I seriously doubt that will happen.
No one needs LLs but they made our last trip much more pleasant; lines were pretty long, which again is relative to how much time you can spend in the parks, how early you can go or late you can stay, how many people in your group and their ages, etc. I liked the pre-booked ride reservations when they were free. Now we have paid FP+. Who would have foreseen that? Oh, wait . . .
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
There’s no disconnect from the reality that they need people to make money. None.
Their entire business is being propped up by parks…currently…and that is unlikely to ever not be the case again.
I know where the disconnect is: it’s not “luxury”…it’s for the masses.
So is cruise line…not “luxury”
The myth of “unlimited runway” is just that. We can watch it play. Maybe we’ll be dead before they finally run out of options? The end is not a mystery on this course…it’s only time
And you skimmed the part about the line skips Being a bandaid…which they are.
How do you continue to sell line skipping if your lines are dropping. Even wdw customers can’t be that stupid forever…but they’ll try…no doubt
Chi84
Premium Member
You equate "expensive" with "luxury?" That's something I don't agree with; expensive can also mean something is just more convenient.
If the lines drop people will stop buying line-skipping. Unless they don't want to wait even a short time. But right now the lines are long enough for that not to happen. Not everyone looks at a 45 minute wait for Tron and concludes there's no one in the parks and line skips aren't necessary.
Yes, we will probably be long gone before Disney runs out of options.
SoFloMagic
Well-Known Member
Great point. So many guests on july 4th are doing things like american adventure, walking around, and saving fireworks spots that wait times aren't a good indicator.Yeah that's a pretty good capture. Definitely not a hoax to say crowds are down. They are. But the place isn't the ghost town that some say it is. What feels slow to repeat visitors like myself literally can feel packed to someone who is not experienced with the Disney park. I'll look around and go oh my gosh Peter Pan is only a 35-minute wait today while someone else will leave the park and exclaim they could not get on any other rides because none of them were less than 2 hours. They are wrong and they don't even look at the wait times and make really bad assumptions.
Is attendance down? Absolutely yes. Is it significant. I think so!
But 4th of July was still busy. Hard not to think otherwise when you're caught in the middle of a couple of international tour groups that are chanting and some of them don't smell so great. So when I say sights, sound, and smell, unfortunately I mean all three of " figment protocols
It would be very hard to find someone with more experienced in WDW parks than someone like myself. Literally thousands of Disney days in the parks. What I feel is a slow day could be someone elses perceived crowd control nightmare. And that's what I mean by it's all relative.
Here's a post we won't see a lot of..... " Hey guys it was my first time ever at Disney and oh my Gosh I couldn't believe there were no lines anywhere. I felt like I had the whole theme park to myself and my family. It was so wonderful." first-time visitor just isn't going to perceive the "ghost town" that the experienced visitor is perceiving.
I felt like epcot was about 90-95% as busy as last year in the late evening which isnt that bad considering the strong thunderstorms that just moved through the area .
Humidity isnt impacting booked trips, but it is potentially impacting people showing up - passholders and single day guests.
But I agree that there are other causes - mainly the recession we're entering and a slowdown of international visitors to the US- vegas numbers are similar to disney right now. Also epic universe isnt helping.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
What percentage of the daily average is locals and APs?
Not enough to empty pathways as we keep seeing in pictures with increasing frequency.
Travel has been “healthy” according to all the industry watchers…except on I-4 for 3 going on 4 years…there is an issue and we can’t splain it away.
Tsa was reporting “record volume”…yet again…3 days ago…and we’ve spent 48 hours talking about low crowds. It’s not correlating. My oft repeated stance is there is one reason that makes sense…far above the minor ones.
Epic is open under a ticket cap…and if you look…every single day through 12/25 is available.